Help with first purchase- P4s?

[jaesung]

Hi, I stumbled upon these forums and thought this would be the best place to seek advice.

I knew next to nothing 3 days ago and after a lot of reading I am leaning heavily towards purchasing the Audioengine P4s.

I like these because of the small size (they should fit nicely on my desk) and the fact that they are passive gives me the option to use them in a surround set up later in life. They seemed to have positive reviews across the board.

I will be using these mainly for music at my computer.

Concerns and questions:
-I have heard they are a bit too "bright" for near-field listening. What exactly does that mean.. bright? (I am a noob still). If it means anything I won't always be in front of my computer, but around in my small room.

-My budget is 200-300 for the speakers only. Is there any other speaker that I should seriously consider?

Notes:
-I don't care about bass too much since I have my ATH-M50s headphones for that
-budget only includes speakers, I will have a separate but small budget for the amp

 

[its phillip]

For $300, these are what I would buy...but you might not have room for them on your desk:
http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/images/542469405/energy-rc10

 

[jonnythan]

For near-field listening, why not get speakers designed for near-field listening?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-truth-b1030a-active-monitor-single/485794000000000

Don't even need an amp.

 

[jaesung]

For $300, these are what I would buy...but you might not have room for them on your desk:


I don't know much about specifications, but if these are better than the P4s these seem amazing! Thank you for the suggestion but as fortune has it, I live in Canada, where they apparently do not ship to.

For near-field listening, why not get speakers designed for near-field listening?

Don't even need an amp.

I appreciate your suggestion too! However these do not seem to meet my criteria of passive speakers. Furthermore, I am not seeking specifically near-field listening speakers as I would want to listen away from my computer as well.

Again, could someone explain what it means for speakers to be a bit too "bright"?
And does anyone else support my P4 purchase or do you have other strong substitutes?

Thanks again audioholics!

 

[jonnythan]

I appreciate your suggestion too! However these do not seem to meet my criteria of passive speakers. Furthermore, I am not seeking specifically near-field listening speakers as I would want to listen away from my computer as well.

Again, could someone explain what it means for speakers to be a bit too "bright"?
And does anyone else support my P4 purchase or do you have other strong substitutes?

Thanks again audioholics!

Behringer makes equivalent passive monitors as well.

When someone says a speaker is "bright" it means that the high end of the frequency spectrum seems over-emphasized. Warm is sort of the opposite - it generally indicates that the low-mid parts of the frequency spectrum are over-emphasized.

Bright speakers tend to be a little harsh and fatiguing, whereas warm speakers tend to be a little boring.

 

[bikemig]

I'm listening to the P-4s mated with the audioengine N-22 amp as I write this. They work very, very well for a nearfield set up but you will want to position them correctly; audioengine sells a pair of desktop stands but you can make something yourself that will do the job. The sound is not bright. The speakers do lack a low end. They are very accurate and neutral and pretty sweet for $250. The amp is very good as well; it produces very clean sound and has a fairly competent headphone amp. There might be better speakers for $250 but these are front ported and very easy to set up to sound right on a desktop.

Edit: the ATH-M50s you own should work well with the N-22 amp if you decide to buy it. It works great (and I do mean great) with my Audio Technica ATH-AD700 and it has a similar impedance to your ATH M50s.

 

[bikemig]

The N-22 amp and P4 speakers make for a very clean desktop set up:

 

[gpost3]

Don't even need an amp.

Which is better IMO if you can avoid it.

I would not recommend AudioEngines. I had their A2s, very hyped across the board IMHO. They sound tiny and canned even for near field.

Small speakers with good sound is what I am struggling with as well. It seems to me that 5" to 7" woofer is going to be ideal for your case. It will not be overwhelming near field and it should give you a wider sound stage when you are moving around. Having said that, since you really want passive speakers I would suggest these: http://www.long-mcquade.com/products/8744/Pro_Audio_Recording/Studio_Monitors/Alesis/Near_Field_Reference_Monitors_-_Pair.htm

 

[bikemig]

Which is better IMO if you can avoid it.

I would not recommend AudioEngines. I had their A2s, very hyped across the board IMHO. They sound tiny and canned even for near field.

Small speakers with good sound is what I am struggling with as well. It seems to me that 5" to 7" woofer is going to be ideal for your case. It will not be overwhelming near field and it should give you a wider sound stage when you are moving around. Having said that, since you really want passive speakers I would suggest these: http://www.long-mcquade.com/products/8744/Pro_Audio_Recording/Studio_Monitors/Alesis/Near_Field_Reference_Monitors_-_Pair.htm

@gpost: the OP was asking about different speakers than the ones you are talking about. Small speakers do have limitations but then sometimes size matters . . . . .

 

[alphaiii]

I had the P4's for a short time, and I did find them bright. Not that they're bad speakers, just more prominent treble than I liked.

There are some outdoor measurements at Stereomojo that show the rising treble response.
http://www.stereomojo.com/Audio Engine P4 Speaker Review/AudioEngineP4SpeakerReview.htm

The measurements were done with the rear of the speakers close (10") to the outside of the house to give some boundary reinforcement.

I think the measurements show that these speakers were clearly designed to be used on/near a boundary (ie. on a desktop) and will lack bass in other placement, such as on speaker stands out from the wall.

 

[jaesung]

Behringer makes equivalent passive monitors as well.

When someone says a speaker is "bright" it means that the high end of the frequency spectrum seems over-emphasized. Warm is sort of the opposite - it generally indicates that the low-mid parts of the frequency spectrum are over-emphasized.

Bright speakers tend to be a little harsh and fatiguing, whereas warm speakers tend to be a little boring.

Thanks for the lesson!

I'm listening to the P-4s mated with the audioengine N-22 amp as I write this. They work very, very well for a nearfield set up but you will want to position them correctly; audioengine sells a pair of desktop stands but you can make something yourself that will do the job. The sound is not bright. The speakers do lack a low end. They are very accurate and neutral and pretty sweet for $250. The amp is very good as well; it produces very clean sound and has a fairly competent headphone amp. There might be better speakers for $250 but these are front ported and very easy to set up to sound right on a desktop.

Edit: the ATH-M50s you own should work well with the N-22 amp if you decide to buy it. It works great (and I do mean great) with my Audio Technica ATH-AD700 and it has a similar impedance to your ATH M50s.

I really like the size of these speakers and the fact that they are front ported. I have found some other options and would like to know how it compares. Either way, I would not get the N22 amp atm because I cannot afford it, maybe later down the road, but for now I would look for a cheap used budget amp.

Which is better IMO if you can avoid it.

Small speakers with good sound is what I am struggling with as well. It seems to me that 5" to 7" woofer is going to be ideal for your case. It will not be overwhelming near field and it should give you a wider sound stage when you are moving around. Having said that, since you really want passive speakers I would suggest these: long-mcquade.com/products/8744/Pro_Audio_Recording/Studio_Monitors/Alesis/Near_Field_Reference_Monitors_-_Pair.htm

Why would you say it's better to avoid a set that requires an amp? I liked the idea of using the passives in a different set up in the future. Your suggestion seems alright and it's in Canada, but I don't see specs D:

I had the P4's for a short time, and I did find them bright. Not that they're bad speakers, just more prominent treble than I liked.

Hmm, the user bikemig just said it wasn't bright :S


Thanks to everyone for the responses!
I am looking at alternatives now.
How do these compare to the P4s?

amazon.ca/Polk-Audio-TSi100-Bookshelf-Speakers/dp/B00192KF12/ref=pd_sim_sbs_ce1

and

a used pair of PSB Alpha B1 Bookshelf Speakers for $180

 

[gpost3]

Dont see the specs

45 Hz 20 kHz +/- 3 dB. A 6.5 inch woofer.

Why would you say it's better to avoid a set that requires an amp?

To save space. But let me clarify that a bit. I am not saying that having a separate amp is necessarily a bad idea. But since you said size is an issue, the extra amp takes up space and a lot of studio monitors do come with a very robust amp built in. Unless you need remote volume control. I would still suggest that you buy a Honda Civic for your 90% daily driving and save gas to have a night out with your girlfriend and when you need to go off road once in a while, then take out your gas guzzling 4x4 Range Rover.

What I am getting at is if you do most of your listening infront of a computer, then you don't need a big amplifier Unless ofcourse you have the space to put an amp. But from my read on your first post - I get that space is an issue? If it isn't an issue, then sure get an amp and a pair of moderately sized bookshelfs.

I will recommend AGAINST any audioengine speaker. I also found them bright and for the money you can do better.

 

[alphaiii]

Hmm, the user bikemig just said it wasn't bright :S

Just goes to show how subjective sound is... 2 people with opposing opinions of the same speaker... Add in that we heard them in different rooms with different source/electronics...

That being said, the Stereomojo measurements show elevated/rising treble... Whether they sound bright to you will depend on a number of factors, most importantly your own hearing and preference...

In other words... you'll have to hear them yourself to determine how they sound and if you like that particular sound.

 

[jaesung]

45 Hz 20 kHz +/- 3 dB. A 6.5 inch woofer.



To save space. But let me clarify that a bit. I am not saying that having a separate amp is necessarily a bad idea. But since you said size is an issue, the extra amp takes up space and a lot of studio monitors do come with a very robust amp built in. Unless you need remote volume control. I would still suggest that you buy a Honda Civic for your 90% daily driving and save gas to have a night out with your girlfriend and when you need to go off road once in a while, then take out your gas guzzling 4x4 Range Rover.

What I am getting at is if you do most of your listening infront of a computer, then you don't need a big amplifier Unless ofcourse you have the space to put an amp. But from my read on your first post - I get that space is an issue? If it isn't an issue, then sure get an amp and a pair of moderately sized bookshelfs.

I will recommend AGAINST any audioengine speaker. I also found them bright and for the money you can do better.

Thanks for the specs. Some amps are small, no? And if it is a VCR/DVD player shaped amp I can just place my monitor on top of that I was worried more about space in regards to the actual speakers.




**k so I think I have finally been convinced not to go with the audioengines.. they were more expensive anyways D:

I am thinking of going with the USED PSB Alpha B1 Bookshelf Speakers!
The owner is selling them for $180CAD and claims they are like new with under 30 hours of use over 4 months.

Is this a good deal?

I heard that the PSB Alpha B1 are much better than the Polk-Audio-TSi100s that I was considering and comparable to the audioengine P4s.




PS. I want to thank you all for all the help, input, and knowledge you have passed on to me! Really appreciate it- future audiophile in the making ;]




PPS. PSB Alpha 1 Specs:
Frequency Range

On Axis @ 0° ±3dB 65-21,000 Hz
Off Axis @ 30° ±1.5dB 65-10,000 Hz
Lf Cutoff -10dB 55Hz
Sensitivity
(1w (2.83V) @ 1m,
IEC-filtered Pink Noise,
C-weighted)
Anechoic Chamber 89 dB
Typical Listening Room 91 dB
Impedence
Nominal 8 Ohms
Minimum 6 Ohms
Input Power
(RMS,Clipping < 10% of the Time)
Recommended 15-80 Watts
Program 60 Watts
Acoustic Design
Tweeter(Nominal) 3/4'' (19 mm)
Aluminum Dome with Ferrofluid
Woofer (Nominal) 5 1/4'' (130 mm)
Injection Molded
Metalized Polypropylene Cone
Damped Rubber Surround
Crossover 3,000 Hz, B3
Internal Volume Design Type 0.29 cu ft (8.0 liter)
Bass reflex
1 1/2'' Rear Port
Video Shielded
Size (W x H x D)
Milimeters(mm) 179 x 300 x 235 mm
Inches('') 7 1/16 x 11 7/8 x 9 1/4''
Net Weight
Kilograms(Kgs) 4.0 kg/each
Pounds(lbs) 8.8 lb /each
Shipping Weight
Kilograms(Kgs) 9.7 kg/each
Pounds(lbs) 21.4 lb /each
Finish
Black Ash, Maple or Sienna
Features
5-way Gold-plated Binding Posts
Keyhole Slot
1/4-20 Threaded Brass Insert
Aluminum Grille
Clear Rubber Bumpers

 

[gpost3]

You are welcome.

future audiophile

Oh no audiophiles are stupid old people with money to burn. We don't want that We just want another audio enthusiast who knows a bit of science.

Having an amp underneath your monitor would be a great idea too! If you can find an amp like that within budget - by all means. If you are concerned about the speaker size, then why not look at Behringer MS40? You get bass and treble control with two separate line volume controls and front headphone jack.

 

[bikemig]

Just goes to show how subjective sound is... 2 people with opposing opinions of the same speaker... Add in that we heard them in different rooms with different source/electronics...

That being said, the Stereomojo measurements show elevated/rising treble... Whether they sound bright to you will depend on a number of factors, most importantly your own hearing and preference...

In other words... you'll have to hear them yourself to determine how they sound and if you like that particular sound.

@ alphaiii is, of course, quite right. Speakers are subjective and you have to listen to them. I do think the P-4s need some break in time; at least that was my experience. And the N-22 amp produces a reasonable amount of very clean power; you can drive the thing as loud as you want with little to no audible distortion and it stays cool because of the clever upright design.

@ jaesung: the PSBs may be a good deal. I've auditioned a fair number of their speakers and I like them a lot. You could do a lot worse for desktop speakers but you will still need an amp.

@gpost: I'm not sure why you spend so much time carping about speakers you apparently haven't listened to. There may be a lot of good reasons to prefer products other than audioengine but your near constant complaints about a company that you know little about is not one of them. I've dealt a fair bit with the company. They are very good about providing info about their products and they stand behind them.

 

[burunduks]

For near-field listening, why not get speakers designed for near-field listening?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-truth-b1030a-active-monitor-single/485794000000000

Don't even need an amp.

b1030a > b3030a ?

 

[jaesung]

You are welcome.

Oh no audiophiles are stupid old people with money to burn. We don't want that We just want another audio enthusiast who knows a bit of science.

Having an amp underneath your monitor would be a great idea too! If you can find an amp like that within budget - by all means. If you are concerned about the speaker size, then why not look at Behringer MS40? You get bass and treble control with two separate line volume controls and front headphone jack.

The PSB Alpha B1 are an acceptable size to me. Could you comment on those please? I am seriously considering purchasing them USED for $180 (4month old less than 30 hours usage)

@ jaesung: the PSBs may be a good deal. I've auditioned a fair number of their speakers and I like them a lot. You could do a lot worse for desktop speakers but you will still need an amp.

@gpost: I'm not sure why you spend so much time carping about speakers you apparently haven't listened to. There may be a lot of good reasons to prefer products other than audioengine but your near constant complaints about a company that you know little about is not one of them. I've dealt a fair bit with the company. They are very good about providing info about their products and they stand behind them.

Yeah, I understand I will need an amp. In fact I want an amp
You said the PSB Alpha B1s "may" be a good deal.. what do you mean by "may"?
I like them and the P4s but the B1s seem like a better deal at the moment, despite how much I like the front ported P4s.. o and that slick bamboo <3 lol




*** More comments about the PSB Alpha B1s before my final decision to purchase?

 

[bikemig]

The PSB Alpha B1 are an acceptable size to me. Could you comment on those please? I am seriously considering purchasing them USED for $180 (4month old less than 30 hours usage)






Yeah, I understand I will need an amp. In fact I want an amp
You said the PSB Alpha B1s "may" be a good deal.. what do you mean by "may"?
I like them and the P4s but the B1s seem like a better deal at the moment, despite how much I like the front ported P4s.. o and that slick bamboo <3 lol




*** More comments about the PSB Alpha B1s before my final decision to purchase?

Heck, I'd probably go for the Alpha B1s at that price if I thought they were in good shape, actually needed them, and thought they would fit my space. They are a fine pair of bookshelf speakers at that price and I'm a fan of PSB speakers. Now you just need to find a decent used amp/receiver to drive them.

 

[gpost3]

I'm not sure why you spend so much time carping about speakers you apparently haven't listened to.

Huh? who is this kid? I have auditioned all the AudioEngine speakers myself and have also owned their A2s A5s as well as the P4s. Sure Audioengine stands behind their speakers but that matters very little when for the money you can do much better. PERIOD.