Help with budget system

[luisg]

Hello all, I've been reading everything in audioholics site for about two weeks, trying to filter the overwhelming amount of info available, in order to make a reasonably well informed choice for a new system. Now that I feel more or less comfortable with the info, I want your feedback about my choices.

I'm describing as much as possible about my particular situation.

About me:
I'm not really a very educated listener, and I have zero experience in audio equipment beyond headphones, boomboxes and htib. Unfortunatly, I'm no longer in the blessed "ignorance zone", where you are happy with low quality equipment.
While I have a bunch of CD's, I've ripped them all to mp3@192 or higher bitrates. I'm no longer interested in switching CDs, and to be honest I can't differentiate between a CD and a decently ripped mp3.
I want something with a clear sound at low and medium volume. I'm not into loud listening or heavy bass.

What I have:
I already have a 42" 1080p lcd tv, and recently got a PS3 for gaming, and as a blu-ray player. I also have a laptop with hdmi output.
I already have an old Pioneer htib 5.1. I think it has a perfectly good sound for DVD movies, but is unsatisfaying for music. It does not have digital inputs or outputs (so the sound from the ps3 is only analog stereo through the TV), and It's also short of analog inputs.

Restrictions:
I don't live in the usa, there are only a few music stores where I live, and they are usually expensive and not many brands/models. Importing stuff from online stores is possible, but you have to pay international shipping (about $5 usd/pound). This also means in practice I don't have any sort of warranty, as shipping back and forth is so expensive.

Right now, I can spend about $800/$900 usd (including shipping).
As I live in a small rented apartment, I don't have a lot of options for speaker placement and size. I don't want anything more than 5.1. If I can get a nice 5.1, it will be perfect. However, I could live with a stereo system initially (2.0 or 2.1), with the option to grow as money, space and wife allow.

My plan:
For a receiver, I'm planning to get a Yamaha RX-V465. This will cost me about $416 locally. I think it has the best price/features/value relation.

Speakers are a harder choice: Anything too big is easily more expensive to ship than to buy. This practically rules out for now importing big front towers or subwoofers. These are my options for about the same price:

- Buy locally a 5.1 JBL 145.5. This is my preferred option, however I'm not sure if it will be better than my old Pioneer.
- Import a pair of bookshelf speakers on the $200-$300 range, like the Infinity Primus P162, which seem to get consistently good reviews.
- Buy locally a pair of front towers Yamaha NS-9002. I can't find a lot of references on the Internet about them.
- Buy locally a pair of small and less expensive speakers (like JBL control 25) and a subwoofer (not sure which one).
- Buy locally a pair of Klipsch RB 61. These are slightly over my budget, but I could stretch it if they're worth.
- Import something like the htib recommended by audioholics, yamaha yht-591. However at 85 pounds it will cost me about 1 grand, more than any option.

So, what do you think?

Sorry for the long post and thanks for your time.

 

[FirstReflection]

In what country are you living?

Don't worry about the length of your post - it's not long. Have you seen some of mine? lol

It sounds as though you've bought yourself a nice TV and you have a great gaming system and Blu-ray player with the PS3. It makes sense that you'd want some good surround sound to go with that now and to also take advantage of the stellar sound quality that Blu-ray offers.

I actually did a little experiment quite a few months back. I took a few of my CD tracks that I use frequently to test audio gear. I ripped those CD tracks to WAV, Apple Lossless, and mp3s and AAC files of various bitrates. I wanted to find out if I could blindly identify the various levels of quality.

What I did was compare two versions to one another without knowing which versions were playing and then decide which one was better. I would go through, comparing two tracks and eventually came up with an ordered list.

I was actually really surprised to discover that I absolutely nailed the order!

WAV, lossless and both mp3 and AAC at 320 kbps all came out equal according to my ears. AAC at 256 kbps was one step down, with mp3 at 256 kbps right below it. I also put the 192 kbps and 128 kbps versions in the correct order as well.

I suppose that could have all just been blind luck, but I find it really hard to believe that I would get the order of quality 100% correct by luck alone So I rip all of my music to 320 kbps quality because it still saves space vs. WAV or lossless, but I couldn't tell any difference at all. 256 kbps AAC was REALLY close, but I did pick it out, so, to my mind, there is definitely a little bit of degradation there.

Anyways! To get back to your surround sound situation. It's going to be very tough to recommend something without knowing what you can buy locally or what is available to you online with reasonable shipping. My "go to" suggestions for low budgets are definitely mostly from online companies.

We also don't know what you room is like. Could you describe your room, please? Dimensions, is it enclosed or open to other rooms? Is it carpeted? Pics or a diagram are a great help!

In the low price ranges, I definitely prefer Onkyo receivers. Yamaha's amplifier and power supply quality in their low-priced receivers has not been too good in the past couple of years. Onkyo has maintained solid amplifier performance, even in their low-priced stuff. And I much prefer the Audyssey auto-setup, EQ and auto volume to any other solution, so Onkyo is really the way to go in the low price ranges to me

The speakers are going to be a tougher recommendation, but I would point you towards thespeakercompany.com In terms of getting the most performance for the lowest price possible, tSc is definitely the leader IMO, so I will point you towards them and hopefully, shipping to your country will not be too much.

Best of luck!

 

[skers_54]

I really like the Denon 590 at your price range. Its features are ones you will actually use and they keep the cost down by not including some of the lesser-used ones. It has Audyssey MultiEQ, which is at least one step up from anything else in its class. That in itself gives it a big leg up (IMO of course). If it's available and comparable in price in your neck of the woods, I'd snag it.

Some of the big manufacturers will sell speakers in your country. If you could give us an idea about what you have available locally, we should be able to help you sort those out too. Shipping speakers will be very expensive since they are fairly heavy (I'd say 30 lbs or so per pair with packaging ballpark).

 

[luisg]

Hi, I live in Bogota - Colombia, unfortunately there are not a lot home audio and video brands available here. I've found local distributors for JBL, Yamaha, Klipsch, Bose and Definitive. Their inventory is usually reduced to a few models. On electronics Denon and Yamaha get most of the attention, and of course mass market brands like Sony, LG, Panasonic, Pioneer, etc.

Buying anything different involves asking the vendor (or a generic importer) to import the stuff you want, but it is usually more expensive this way and you have to pay in advance.

The system will be installed on my living room, which is about 9 x 16 feet. It's open, with a big window and no carpet. It has some furniture, not distributed for audio listening. Anyway, I'm not interested in hosting parties here, I just want a nice sounding solution for myself and small familiar meetings, focusing in music (if necessary I could delay the surround part).

About the receiver, the one I liked first was the Onkyo 507, but I could not find it here, so I'd need to import it, it would cost me about the same than the yamaha 465 but I can get the last one locally with a warranty. Denon 590 looks good, but it's listed on Amazon as not yet released (and most Denon models available here are ridiculously priced).

I don't know anything about tsc, do you have a particular model in mind?

Thanks.

Luis

 

[FirstReflection]

From the list of brands that you have said are available to you locally, I would recommend a Pioneer Receiver with some JBL speakers. Pioneer is making some very nice receivers in the lower-price ranges these days, so I would take a Pioneer receiver over a Yamaha receiver. Look for the Pioneer VSX-819, VSX-919 and VSX-1019. If any of those are available to you at a good price, they are good choices for a receiver.

Klipsch and JBL are the only two speaker companies on your list that are worth consideration, IMO, although some of Yamaha's speakers are not too bad. I do not think the Klipsch speakers would be a good choice for your particular room. It sounds as though you have a lot of hard, flat surfaces and the Klipsch speakers would likely sound a bit shrill in that kind of room.

If you are able to import tSc speakers for a reasonable price, either the T-Series bookshelf speakers, the TST tower speakers or the TSAT on-wall speakers would make good choices.

This T-Series package is a very good entry-level system, but I do not know how much it would cost to ship it to you.

This TSAT system is a very good choice if you want speakers that you can hang on the wall. And it might cost less to ship because the speakers are smaller.

I am sorry that you are so limited by both availability and budget. But if you can get one of the Pioneer receivers that I mentioned and one of the tSc speaker packages that I have linked to, you will have very, very good sound for the price.

Best of luck!

 

[lsiberian]

Hi, I live in Bogota - Colombia, unfortunately there are not a lot home audio and video brands available here. I've found local distributors for JBL, Yamaha, Klipsch, Bose and Definitive. Their inventory is usually reduced to a few models. On electronics Denon and Yamaha get most of the attention, and of course mass market brands like Sony, LG, Panasonic, Pioneer, etc.

Buying anything different involves asking the vendor (or a generic importer) to import the stuff you want, but it is usually more expensive this way and you have to pay in advance.

The system will be installed on my living room, which is about 9 x 16 feet. It's open, with a big window and no carpet. It has some furniture, not distributed for audio listening. Anyway, I'm not interested in hosting parties here, I just want a nice sounding solution for myself and small familiar meetings, focusing in music (if necessary I could delay the surround part).

About the receiver, the one I liked first was the Onkyo 507, but I could not find it here, so I'd need to import it, it would cost me about the same than the yamaha 465 but I can get the last one locally with a warranty. Denon 590 looks good, but it's listed on Amazon as not yet released (and most Denon models available here are ridiculously priced).

I don't know anything about tsc, do you have a particular model in mind?

Thanks.

Luis

I suggest a Yamaha receiver. They make really good receivers.

For speakers JBL, Klipsch, Definitive and Yamaha are acceptable choices. Infinity is also a good brand. Do you have tools and the ability to build an enclosure? If so you could order some drivers and assemble your own or you could even mod the JBL speakers.

Do you have any Behringer 2030p's?

How about KEF do they exist there?

 

[Seth=L]

I'll second the recommendation for a Pioneer VSX series receiver, great inexpensive receivers this year.

 

[FirstReflection]

I suggest a Yamaha receiver. They make really good receivers.

For speakers JBL, Klipsch, Definitive and Yamaha are acceptable choices. Infinity is also a good brand. Do you have tools and the ability to build an enclosure? If so you could order some drivers and assemble your own or you could even mod the JBL speakers.

Do you have any Behringer 2030p's?

How about KEF do they exist there?

Yamaha DOES make good receivers, but not so much in the low price ranges for the past couple of years. They have definitely skimped on their power supplies and amp quality in their low-priced stuff. I'm not at all saying that Yamaha as a whole is bad. But I really do not like what they have done to their low-priced receivers for the past couple of years. Too much focus on keeping pace with features and inputs and way too much cutting corners on the amp and power supply quality.

Onkyo remains the best in terms of amp quality in the low-price ranges IMO. But Pioneer is right there with them now and they have done a really terrific job with their low-priced receivers.

I've little doubt that Yamaha will get it together and come roaring back in a year or two. Things always seem to go in cycles with the receiver manufacturers leap-frogging each other every now and then.

But for right now, in the low-price range, Onkyo and Pioneer are it. And since Pioneer is available locally to the OP, I definitely say that is the way to go here

 

[luisg]

I'm back, thanks for all your suggestions and comments.

After seeing KEF in this thread, I searched for it and found some guy who is importing KEF. He can import IQ3 for $550 pair (for reference, he has IQ30s for $680). He also offers IQ10 at USD$ 535 and C1 $545. Please notice I can't audition any of those, as they have to be imported first, so I'm basically blind (or deaf?) on this. Based on specs alone, I think IQ3 are the best fit here, what do you think?

Just for fun, weight of tSc T series Package is 122 pounds, so shipping would be around $610 . Tsat system is way better, but at $854 total, it's still twice the price of JBL 145.5, and probably not much better anyway.

I can't find Pioneer receiver line locally, they are focused mostly on car audio and basic htib.

 

[lsiberian]

Yamaha DOES make good receivers, but not so much in the low price ranges for the past couple of years. They have definitely skimped on their power supplies and amp quality in their low-priced stuff. I'm not at all saying that Yamaha as a whole is bad. But I really do not like what they have done to their low-priced receivers for the past couple of years. Too much focus on keeping pace with features and inputs and way too much cutting corners on the amp and power supply quality.

Onkyo remains the best in terms of amp quality in the low-price ranges IMO. But Pioneer is right there with them now and they have done a really terrific job with their low-priced receivers.

I've little doubt that Yamaha will get it together and come roaring back in a year or two. Things always seem to go in cycles with the receiver manufacturers leap-frogging each other every now and then.

But for right now, in the low-price range, Onkyo and Pioneer are it. And since Pioneer is available locally to the OP, I definitely say that is the way to go here

I personally will never buy or own a pioneer product. Call it bad luck if you want but we had way too many issues with them back in the days.

I'd say not being able to listen makes this very hard. I wouldn't want you to import KEF's and not like them.

 

[ju10503]

Have you considered buying used via ebay or someone on here?