Help with Avance dana 660 center crossower

[Martin_Andersen]

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7_xv51qkO6hRTZ5MGd2cGYzWDA/edit

I am in deep trouble
I bought the dana 660 center speaker and the sound was OK, but of course I had to look at the filter I decided to build a new one with better components but something was lost in translation.

The diagram in the link above shows a drawing from the PCB board from the original filter, but I must has missed something because the speaker sounds like sh.. now.

I can here you say, look at the pcb board again right!! but I throw it away

Can anyone help do a review of the diagram.

 

[agarwalro]

Without the detailed driver T/S parameters it is impossible to analyze the circuit you have made. Is there anything on the drivers to help identify them?

The only thing I can recommend is recheck your wiring polarity. Maybe the tweeter was connected reversed polarity and you did not notice. Also, that you did not incorrectly solder the components. So, make sure you did not swap the inductors or resistors between woofer and tweeter, etc.

Try some of the DIY specific forums like, Parts Express Tech Talk or DIY Audio. Maybe someone there has modded your speaker or is familiar with the drivers.

 

[TLS Guy]

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7_xv51qkO6hRTZ5MGd2cGYzWDA/edit

I am in deep trouble
I bought the dana 660 center speaker and the sound was OK, but of course I had to look at the filter I decided to build a new one with better components but something was lost in translation.

The diagram in the link above shows a drawing from the PCB board from the original filter, but I must has missed something because the speaker sounds like sh.. now.

I can here you say, look at the pcb board again right!! but I throw it away

Can anyone help do a review of the diagram.

The low pass filter makes no sense. That 50 ohm resistor shunting the woofers is not correct. Almost certainly that 50 ohm resistor was part of a zobel network, to correct the rise in impedance of the woofers, to allow the inductor to work. There should be a capacitor in series with that resistor, but I can't tell you the value, without measuring the woofers.

Can you contact the manufacturer? Pull a driver and see if there is a maker's name and model number on it.

 

[Martin_Andersen]

I am pretty sure that the low pass filter is correct and that the 50 ohm resistor is there to damp the level of the two woofers.

What I am not sure about is the high pass filter, maybe C1 and R2 is a notch filter and should bee in series to ground.

 

[TLS Guy]

I am pretty sure that the low pass filter is correct and that the 50 ohm resistor is there to damp the level of the two woofers.

What I am not sure about is the high pass filter, maybe C1 and R2 is a notch filter and should bee in series to ground.

I really doubt it, and if they did pad the woofers that is totally unacceptable and would make a lousy speaker.

Why did you fiddle with these speaker? Did it sound poor as I suspect.

I have never had to put a notch filter to a tweeter. The high pass is second order, with a resistor bypassed by a pull up cap, to boost the HF.

The low pass filter is first order, and the series inductor will not work, unless the rise of impedance of the woofers with frequency is compensated for. A first order low pass filter pretty much has to have a zobel. I would bet that that is your problem.

Anyhow unless you can get the original circuit, get full specs on the drivers, or measure the TL parameters of the drivers, that speaker is now useless.

Where do you live? If you are in the US, you can ship me the speaker and I will sort it out. I can not help you unless I have the speaker.

 

[Martin_Andersen]

Picture of the new filter and the speaker

Link to picture of new filter

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7_xv51qkO6hRkhXQ2VDOE8tTkE"]https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7_xv51qkO6hRkhXQ2VDOE8tTkE

First a BIG thank's for offering to fix my speaker, you are very kind. But if it's possible I would like to fix it my self and then there's the problem with fright, I live in Denmark, costly.

And it's a puzzle with only six pieces, I can shuffle them around until my amp burns or I get the right sound again

No the sound was OK, but the capacitors was crap.

The speaker is 4 ohm.

 

[TLS Guy]

Link to picture of new filter

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7_xv51qkO6hRkhXQ2VDOE8tTkE"]https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7_xv51qkO6hRkhXQ2VDOE8tTkE

First a BIG thank's for offering to fix my speaker, you are very kind. But if it's possible I would like to fix it my self and then there's the problem with fright, I live in Denmark, costly.

And it's a puzzle with only six pieces, I can shuffle them around until my amp burns or I get the right sound again

No the sound was OK, but the capacitors was crap.

The speaker is 4 ohm.

Well I would not burn your amp. I know you have a few components, but the possible combinations is high. I would not burn your amp out, which you will do if you stab around in the dark.

I have to feel you have left out a vital component. The low pass crossover I'm certain is wrong, and it is strange it is first order.

The other issue is that often the crossover is designed to work with crap components. If you upgrade them you can ruin it. This is especially true of inductors, were the DC resistance is crucial to the design.

If you are going to fix this, you are going to have to invest in some test equipment and a crossover modelling program. Your chance of getting lucky bumbling about are very close to zero. If the speaker sounds awful now, then you have made a very major mistake.

Is the manufacturer still in business?

I really can't help you any further, with the information I have. Crossovers look deceptively simple, but they are anything but.

Don't blow your amp. If you don't have the knowledge or know someone with the skill to re engineer that speaker, then you need to chuck it out and buy a new center.

By the way your link does not work, so you have made an error with that also.

 

[Martin_Andersen]

Final Thoughts

Here is a working link: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7_xv51qkO6hRkhXQ2VDOE8tTkE/edit"]

I have never thought about resistance in capacitors only in coils, that's a bummer.

I am not new to speaker building and I know how to measure driver parameters and phase from the crossover I just don't have the equipment to measure it any more. I only have the XTZ Room Analyzer Pro II.

I think I have two options, buy some measurement equipment or buy a new center.

Anyway thanks for all you help

 

[agarwalro]

Martin,

Here are a couple of filter calculators that will make things easier if you're just going to try to wing it...

Crossover Design Chart and Inductance vs. Frequency Calculator(Low-pass)

This page has a tutorial and then the calculators are mid page on left side.

3 Way Crossover