Help w/ 2 ch Channel Levels

[ronnie 1.8]

I just received my RS SPL meter, and did a bit of measuring/setting. Using the 'channel levels' feature of my Denon AVR3805, I set all channels to 75dB (reference). So this would cover all video DVD's, I believe. Then using my Denon DVD3930CI's "channel levels" setup feature, and "ext in" on my AVR, and turning my AVR to 0dB (I'm assuming the test tones on my player are -30dB, as is the AVR, right?) I set all channels to 75dB.

My main question is, when I'm listening to my CDs via 2 ch analog ("input CD" on my AVR, and in pure direct mode), how do I set those levels accurately?

 

[mtrycrafts]

I just received my RS SPL meter, and did a bit of measuring/setting. Using the 'channel levels' feature of my Denon AVR3805, I set all channels to 75dB (reference). So this would cover all video DVD's, I believe. Then using my Denon DVD3930CI's "channel levels" setup feature, and "ext in" on my AVR, and turning my AVR to 0dB (I'm assuming the test tones on my player are -30dB, as is the AVR, right?) I set all channels to 75dB.

My main question is, when I'm listening to my CDs via 2 ch analog ("input CD" on my AVR, and in pure direct mode), how do I set those levels accurately?

You may need to get a CD test disc, even if it only has sine waves on it to each channel. Rives has one. But, just in case the ch is not still level, you would have to change it every time you change inputs, CD or DVD. The receiver should be set as the DVD player too.

 

[MDS]

My main question is, when I'm listening to my CDs via 2 ch analog ("input CD" on my AVR, and in pure direct mode), how do I set those levels accurately?

AV Receivers typically do not allow you set levels independently for each source so once you calibrate the levels, using either a test CD/DVD or the internal test tones, those levels apply to all inputs.

Be aware that if you used the internal test tones that are at -30 dB below full scale, when playing back a CD that has an average level much higher than -30 dB, your average playback level will NOT be 75 dB - it will be much higher. The channels are still balanced but the volume will be greater simply because the input level is higher to begin with.

 

[ronnie 1.8]

AV Receivers typically do not allow you set levels independently for each source so once you calibrate the levels, using either a test CD/DVD or the internal test tones, those levels apply to all inputs.

Be aware that if you used the internal test tones that are at -30 dB below full scale, when playing back a CD that has an average level much higher than -30 dB, your average playback level will NOT be 75 dB - it will be much higher. The channels are still balanced but the volume will be greater simply because the input level is higher to begin with.

Will do - thanks for the heads-up.

 

[ronnie 1.8]

So I set my channel levels via my player's test tones as follows. Under 'audio setup', under 'audio channel', I chose 'multi channel'. This gave me a diagram of 6 channels, and allowed me to set the level of each channel.

To set my left-front and right-front channels for listening to CD's (direct), I changed the above 'multi channel' setting to '2 ch (vss off)'. This gave me a diagram of 2 channels, and allows me to set the level of each of these 2 channels. It actually shows the levels of all 6 channels, but only allows me to change front-left and front-right.

The probelm is that I cannot hear the levels! When setting the levels under 'multi channel' setting, I chose "ext in" mode, as I would be listening to DVD-As and SA-CDs via 'ext in'. So under '2 ch (vss off)', I chose the AVR's input as 'CD', which is the input I have my 2 analog interconnects going to. No sound! No test tones. I change the mode from 'stereo' to 'direct' with no luck. However, if I then change the mode to 'ext in', I hear the test tone. But that won't do me any good, as I don't listen to CD's via 'ext in'.

What I need to learn is, when setting 2 ch levels (this is via my DVD3930CI player, now), via what output are the test tones being generated? It wouldn't make sense for the tones to be output via 'ext in' for both 2 ch and multi channel leveling. ??

 

[MDS]

What I need to learn is, when setting 2 ch levels (this is via my DVD3930CI player, now), via what output are the test tones being generated? It wouldn't make sense for the tones to be output via 'ext in' for both 2 ch and multi channel leveling. ??

Yes, it would make sense. The 'ext in' (5.1 analog input) is different from all the other inputs. Most receivers do zero bass management on those inputs and you also cannot calibrate their levels - that is why you are using the dvd player to calibrate the levels. The player is handling the level and the receiver is just amplifying whatever is sent to it via the ext in input.

The regular 'CD' input level was calibrated using the internal test tones from the receiver and as said before those levels apply to all inputs.

If you have the dvd player connected to the ext in and the player allows you to do separate level settings for 5.1 vs 2.0, then you will have to choose 'ext in' to listen to the 2 channels coming from the 5.1 analog outputs of the player. Most players also have regular 2 channel analog outs. You could also connect those to the regular CD input on the receiver - then you could switch between CD and Ext In and hear the same 2 channels from the player.

 

[ronnie 1.8]

The regular 'CD' input level was calibrated using the internal test tones from the receiver and as said before those levels apply to all inputs.

If I play a 2 ch CD, via the 2 ch output of the player to the CD input to my AVR, and my AVR is in 'direct' or 'pure direct' mode, you are saying the 2 channels are leveled via the AVR? I thought all AVR processing was bypassed in 'direct' or 'pure direct' mode?

 

[ronnie 1.8]

If you have the dvd player connected to the ext in and the player allows you to do separate level settings for 5.1 vs 2.0, then you will have to choose 'ext in' to listen to the 2 channels coming from the 5.1 analog outputs of the player.

Let's assume I do not have 5.1 ch analog interconnects from my player to my AVR, and that I only have 2.0 ch analog interconnects from my player to my AVR (cd input). Now, considering my player allows for 2.0 ch leveling, from what output are these tones generated? It makes sense they are output from the 2 ch ouput, but setting my AVR to 'CD input', I cannot hear the tones.

 

[MDS]

If I play a 2 ch CD, via the 2 ch output of the player to the CD input to my AVR, and my AVR is in 'direct' or 'pure direct' mode, you are saying the 2 channels are leveled via the AVR? I thought all AVR processing was bypassed in 'direct' or 'pure direct' mode?

Level calibration is not 'processing' when talking about direct or pure direct mode. Processing refers to bass management stuff like time alignment (setting speaker distances), speaker sizes, and xover frequency as well as using matrix decoders like ProLogic II. None of that stuff is done in any of the 'direct' modes - just straight from the input to the amplifier and to the speakers.

Let's assume I do not have 5.1 ch analog interconnects from my player to my AVR, and that I only have 2.0 ch analog interconnects from my player to my AVR (cd input). Now, considering my player allows for 2.0 ch leveling, from what output are these tones generated? It makes sense they are output from the 2 ch ouput, but setting my AVR to 'CD input', I cannot hear the tones.

Because most AVRs do not do any bass management or level adjustments on the analog inputs, players offer that capability as a workaround. Therefore the level adjustment from the player applies only to its 5.1 analog outputs and you shouldn't hear the test tone when using the regular 2 channel analog outputs.

Try this to verify it:
- Connect ONLY the 5.1 analog outs from the player to the ext in on the receiver and select the ext in on the receiver.
- Now do the 2 channel level calibration in the player and see if the tones are audible.

 

[ronnie 1.8]

Because most AVRs do not do any bass management or level adjustments on the analog inputs, players offer that capability as a workaround. Therefore the level adjustment from the player applies only to its 5.1 analog outputs and you shouldn't hear the test tone when using the regular 2 channel analog outputs.

That is correct. Your test below confirms this. It seems that both 5.1 ch leveling and 2 ch leveling applies only to the player's 5.1 analog outputs (ext in).

Try this to verify it:
- Connect ONLY the 5.1 analog outs from the player to the ext in on the receiver and select the ext in on the receiver.
- Now do the 2 channel level calibration in the player and see if the tones are audible.

Interesting test. I put my player in 2 ch leveling, chose the R speaker tone, and with my AVR in 'ext in', disconnected the R 2 ch interconnect from the player - and still heard the tone in the R speaker! Which proves the tone was being output through the player's FR ext out. Which I expected. Since I'd already chosen the 'ext in', the player's 2 ch outputs are taken out of the equation.

So my orignal question remains unanswered. From what output are the 2 ch test tones generated? If the answer is via the AVR's channel leveling, then why does Denon provide 2 ch leveling at the player?

I have a mystery! I must not be fully undestanding one or more elements. I've sent a memo to Denon, and I'll see what they say.

 

[MDS]

So my orignal question remains unanswered. From what output are the 2 ch test tones generated? If the answer is via the AVR's channel leveling, then why does Denon provide 2 ch leveling at the player?

The 2 channel test tones are output by the front left and right outputs of the 5.1 analog outs presumably so you could have different levels for the front 2 channels when playing a 5.1 source vs playing a 2.0 source. Why you would want that capability I have no idea.