HELP: Value v Investment Speakers

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duhdonutman

Audioholic Intern
I have purchased, but not unboxed a pair (just 1 pair) of Bowers and Wilkins 685Bs. Today I came across someone selling the Energy Take Classic 5 set (all 5) for an asking price of 175, but I think i can get him down to at minimum $150.

Should I skip the investment in the B&Ws and get the Energy's or should I stick with the B&Ws?
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I have purchased, but not unboxed a pair (just 1 pair) of Bowers and Wilkins 685Bs. Today I came across someone selling the Energy Take Classic 5 set (all 5) for an asking price of 175, but I think i can get him down to at minimum $150.

Should I skip the investment in the B&Ws and get the Energy's or should I stick with the B&Ws?
What is your listening experience, with speakers in the past?
And what is the size of your room?
 
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TommyTom83

Junior Audioholic
I personally love the B&W sound, but everyone has their own preference. Some people hate them some people love them. Maybe buy the energy's as well and listen to them back to back, and sell whichever you don't like. Seems as if your getting the energy's cheap enough to flip them if you don't like them.
 
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FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Here's the thing about speakers - there are no strict, measureable industry standards. In other words, there is no clear "right" or "wrong".

In general, prefessional mixers and sound engineers agree upon the idea that speakers ought to be "transparent" and simply reproduce the signal they are fed with as little distortion and alteration as possible. But they also generally agree that the recordings they release ought to "translate" to speakers other than the ones on which they made the recordings. They are well aware that people will be listening to their recordings on a hugely diverse selection of speakers and earphones. So most larger studios keep a fairly wide variety of speakers on hand so that they can test the final recordings to make sure that the most important elements of the recordings can be heard and appreciated on speakers of varying levels of quality.

There are two parts of your audio system that make the greatest difference in the sound that you hear: your speakers and your room. Amplification and pre-processing (ie. decoding and digital to analogue conversion) can make some audible difference as well, but typically not nearly as much difference as changing your speakers or changing your room.

What happens with most audio enthusiasts is that we seek change. We might say that we want an "upgrade", but more often than not, what we're really after is the experience of listening to a familiar recording and being able to pick out something that we've never noticed before! In many cases, that revelation happens when we get speakers that have measureably lower distortion and/or more uniform (ie. "flat") frequency response at the listening position. But it can also be the case that the new speakers simply emphasize a certain frequency range, which highlights a previously unnoticed sound. Such speakers might not be "better" overall - they are simply different.

So, as I said, there is no clear cut "right" or "wrong". Oftentimes, people will attempt to buy speakers with the idea that they will "last a lifetime" or be of "reference quality". In my opinion, this sort of thinking usually eventually gives way to simply wanting a change and to hear "something new" in familiar recordings.

If you open those B&W speakers and keep them, you will likely enjoy them. B&W is very well-respected and well-renowned for their "British sound". You will find B&W speakers in many, many recording studios and they will play back your recordings in a way that will very likely reveal new details that you had previously never noticed before.

Whether or not the Energy Take Classic package will be enjoyable to you is going to depend heavily on your room. The Take speakers are very small and they should be used in an appropriately sized and shaped room. Most people are quite pleasantly surprised by the quality of sound that such small and inexpensive speakers can produce, but they are still very much limited by their size and price and most audio enthusiasts will come to think of them as a nice "stepping stone" on their way to more expensive and more capable speakers in the future. That said, speakers like the Energy Take Classics can almost always find a purpose and a home in a secondary room like a bedroom or a den. Their small size makes them easy to incorporate into almost any small room and they provide nice, pleasing sound - a huge upgrade over built-in TV speakers or a clock radio!

You'll have to decide for yourself what it is you are hoping to achieve with your speaker purchase. But regardless of what you decide to keep, if you are a budding audio enthusiast, the time will come with either set of speakers when you long for something new and interesting. The fun comes in the comparisons and in discovering previously unnoticed details and sounds in your familiar recordings. Neither the B&Ws nor the Energys are going to be the "be all, end all". But I will say this: if all you want to do is have surround sound for TV and movies and you don't really care about picking out nuances in your music or intently listening to your recordings for tiny details and new revelations, then the Energy Take Classics make more sense. On the other hand, if you are a budding audio enthusiast and you want to listen closely to your recordings and search for "hidden" details in your music, then the B&W pair makes more sense. But just keep in mind that you're going to end up wanting to "upgrade" in either case at some point. It seems as though you readily accept the idea that you'll want to eventually replace the Energy Take Classics - calling them the "value" purchase. But it seems as though you are thinking you'd end up keeping the B&Ws for a longer time - calling them an "investment". Personally, I wouldn't look at either of them that way. Both are merely "stepping stones" in your audio journey. So it's really a matter of what you want right now. Decent, easy to listen to, easy to incorporate surround sound for TV and movies? Or interesting, more revealing, but limited to a pair with no subwoofer speakers that will be a nice start and a great point of comparison for listening intently to music?
 
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TommyTom83

Junior Audioholic
The one thing I will say is B&W speakers definately hold nice resale value, so when you do want to upgrade, your speakers will have enough value left in them to offset your next purchase.
 
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m_vanmeter

Full Audioholic
comparing the full size bookshelf 685B's to Energy Take small satellite speakers is an "apples to raisins" comparison. Tiny satellites are meant for small rooms and limited frequency response.

The Energy Takes are use and dispose of speakers, made and sold cheap for an entry level market. It is not an "either-or" decision.
 
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duhdonutman

Audioholic Intern
Thanks for all the feedback. Just to answer a few questions:
1. as this is my man room i use it for mainly for movies, music and gaming in that order.

2. the room is a 14 x 14 bedroom that is my temp man room. this is our first house and i refuse to be in a room that small ever again, if i can help it.

3. i currently have a set of Klipsh "the horns" that i purchased used a few years ago. they are wall mounted, and if i keep the b&w i know i'll be installing floating shelves for them.

4. i wouldn't consider myself an audiophile, but i do love my music (blues, jazz, pop, r&B). i let BB play some parts of iron man 2 for me on 3 different speaker set ups and the differences were significant enough for me to know that 2 B&Ws sounded far better to me than the 5 definitives satellites and the 5 energy that they had set up.

5. i don't have separate amp, but i do have a pioneer elite vsx-23 at the center of my set up.

I recognize that there is a substantial difference between book shelf and satellite speakers, but i know it's about time to upgrade "the horns". The only reason i even picked up the B&Ws was that just the 2 sounded better then the front, left and center of the horns, the definitives and the energy.

I am going to buy the energy take 5, just to see if i feel they are an upgrade over the horns. if they are not i'll be selling them (probably for a slight profit) and may start to entertain offers for the horns.
 
dkane360

dkane360

Audioholic Field Marshall
I'll buy your 685's if you dont want em :D

But yea, I would definitely take the 685's over the energy's. I would much rather have a solid set of bookshelf speakers than a mediocre 5 speaker set.
 
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duhdonutman

Audioholic Intern
I'll buy your 685's if you dont want em :D

But yea, I would definitely take the 685's over the energy's. I would much rather have a solid set of bookshelf speakers than a mediocre 5 speaker set.
Hey the 685s were purchased from best buy at retail price less then 30 days ago, so i'm sure if i don't keep them i'll be returning for regular price. In other words, it's not going to be worth it for you buy them from me.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
If you are young and starting out, then it's the right time to get good speakers. The hard part is that you may find that your 'good' speakers, really aren't what you want either.

So, figure out what you want. If you want some 802's or something really nice, then just buy something cheap for now and start saving. Make sure you are saving with a purpose that is allowed, and not just wishfully saving up for something you will never really get.

I would also say that the 'used' market has a lot to offer out there and is worth considering.
 
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Guavamanh

Junior Audioholic
If you are young and starting out, then it's the right time to get good speakers. The hard part is that you may find that your 'good' speakers, really aren't what you want either.

So, figure out what you want. If you want some 802's or something really nice, then just buy something cheap for now and start saving. Make sure you are saving with a purpose that is allowed, and not just wishfully saving up for something you will never really get.

I would also say that the 'used' market has a lot to offer out there and is worth considering.

IMHO I wouldn't consider buying speakers as "an investment"... I usually reserve that for things that will make me money/increase in value, not depreciate over time.

A little story: I first started on these forums around 2005 when I was setting up my father in law's system (Denon 3806, Infinity Kappa L/R, three zones). Everyone here was really helpful with the set up. Along the way I was bit by the home theater bug. I've auditioned speakers along the way (Magnepans, Martin Logan, Definitive Tech, B&W, Omni, Energy, Sonus Faber, etc) but I always remembered reading the review on the Klipsch Ultra2 speakers and drooling over the set up. I continued to use a HT in a box setup (Inifinity TSS system) while I saved up. 5 years later and I finally auditioned and bought a 3 month used set of Klipsch Ultra2 5.2 from a local audiophile on Audiogon (he decided to just go pure 2-channel with Wilson Audio Puppys and sold the speakers to me for a good price). I never thought I could afford this set up, but Audiogon made it happen.

Moral of the story: I agree with BMXTRIX... save for something you really want, used market is something to consider.. and test a lot of speakers before you make your choice. I also really enjoyed FirstReflection's post regarding the hobby... it's all about personal opinion/enjoyment. Right now I'm at the stage where I'm just amazed at how detailed/clear my sound is and enjoying hearing all these lil nuances in recordings.. and of course I'm already thinking about how to make the sound "change" in the future =p (e.g. XPA-3 to power LCR in the 5.2 setup which will allow me to power surrounds, Zone 2 and Zone 3 with my Yamaha RX-A2000) Have fun! =)
 
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