Help Update My System Please

[JasinS]

Hey guys I kinda went over this in the speaker forum but I wanted to get some more input. Anyways this is what I currently have laying around....

HK avr-130 reciever, kinda weak I know
dcm kx-12's floor speakers
dcm center speaker (not sure what model)
and 2 infinity rs-1 bookshelfs for the rear
and a dcm tb-1 subwoofer


so my question is where should I start upgrading? I would think that the hk reciever isnt going to do a great job pushing the dcm speakers but I really like the hk reciever.... and on the same note the dcm speakers are large and to be honest ugly as hell...Im lost.... I use my stereo for 60% tv/dvd and 40% music and love it loud. Any ideas where I should at least start with a budget of around 750 bucks? or is it even worth it

and if it matters, the new system is going into a medium size basement at my new house

 

[mike c]

I couldnt get more detailed info about the kx-12's except that its 8ohms, 12" woofer, "highly efficient"

if I were in your position, I wouldnt know what to change too. either:
a) front speakers
b) receiver with pre-outs

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

That's really not a bad musical system. Can you post some pics? I'm not picturing those speakers. I just gave a way a DCM 10" passive sub.

 

[Nick250]

Hey guys I kinda went over this in the speaker forum but I wanted to get some more input. Anyways this is what I currently have laying around....

HK avr-130 reciever, kinda weak I know
dcm kx-12's floor speakers
dcm center speaker (not sure what model)
and 2 infinity rs-1 bookshelfs for the rear
and a dcm tb-1 subwoofer


so my question is where should I start upgrading? I would think that the hk reciever isnt going to do a great job pushing the dcm speakers but I really like the hk reciever.... and on the same note the dcm speakers are large and to be honest ugly as hell...Im lost.... I use my stereo for 60% tv/dvd and 40% music and love it loud. Any ideas where I should at least start with a budget of around 750 bucks? or is it even worth it

and if it matters, the new system is going into a medium size basement at my new house

I am not familiar with your speakers but I did Google them and they seem to be bass heavy entry level towers. It is my view that the heart an AV system that one uses for music as well as HT is the two main speakers. You could get some pretty good speakers for $750. My suggestion is to audition as many speakers as you can in your price range to get a feel for what's out there. I recently auditioned the B&W 602 S3. It sells for $600. It is by far the best $600 speaker I have heard. Big sound stage, decent bass and a nice smooth ride from mid bass to the highs. Worth a listen unless you want bass heavy speakers. These are more neutral sounding.

Nick

 

[JasinS]

That's really not a bad musical system. Can you post some pics? I'm not picturing those speakers. I just gave a way a DCM 10" passive sub.

hey I dont have any pics on hand rite now ill try to get some

anyways yeah Im still confused, I think the rec. is the weak point (besides my cheap and old dcm speakers) I mean would it be worth it to just splurge and get a new rec? I did some more math and I can spend around 1k on updates, and since my surrounds and sub are stil in good working order im just conflicted on a new rec or new fronts and a center

 

[tomd51]

Suggestions...

Hi JasinS;
My first suggestion for you would be to determine what it is you would like to improve in your listening environment. For example:

• Are you looking to improve the overall power output of the system (e.g. louder)?

• Is it the tonal qualities of the system you're looking to improve (e.g., too dull sounding, dialog's weak, separation is poor, highs too sharp, etc.)?

• Do aesthetics play a factor (eg. current setup unattractive, too large for listening environment, speaker finishes do not match, etc.)?

Determining which of these (if any) are more important to you might help you in narrowing down what needs upgrading first in your system. In the same vein as Nick's post, my first suggestion, not knowing the answers to the questions I posed, would be first to consider upgrading you mains and center as your listening preference is predominantly TV and movies. The front soundstage is where 70% or more of the soundtrack for both mediums will be carried. I mention the center channel as well as the mains as maintaining timbre matching and the ability to pan sound from left to right in the front soundstage is critical for most dialog/ front soundstage driven material. While room characteristics can play a big role in the listening environment (which I won't even get into here), quality speakers can also have a large impact on the listening material.

Based on your budget, I would consider five matching bookshelf speakers paired with a quality sub to make the most notable impact in your listening environment. While the DCM TB-1 may suffice as a sub, you can likely upgrade this for a reasonable amount that would make a noticeable impact. For example (prices before shipping):

- 2 pair of AV123's X-Series x-ls bookshelf loudspeakers at $219/pair ($438 before shipping)
- 1 x-cs Center/Main/Surround loudspeaker for $139
5 speaker total = $577 b/shipping, approx. $700 w/shipping
There's a review on the x-ls bookhshelfs from AH here.
or
5 speaker set system from SVS for $599 (approx. $50 for shipping) for a total of approx. $650 w/shipping. There's a review on the this full system (including the SVS PB-10 sub) here.

1 Athena Audition AS-P4000 Subwoofer for approx. $200 shipped

This would provide a solid 5.1, timbre matched speaker system with modest aesthetics and give you decent low-end for a relatively reasonable price. This setup, coupled with your HK AVR-130 shoudl do well in a small to medium-sized room. While the 130 could stand an upgrade, I believe you'd get more bang for your buck by upgrading your speakers and sub while retaining the receiver. This will also allow you to upgrade your receiver at a later time when funds allow to either provide you with more power or improve on the quality of the receiver's sound and feature set. While speaker preference can vary greatly with each listener, The neutral characteristics of the x-ls bookshelfs provide some of the best sounding, well built speakers for the money available today. The SVS SBS-01 system also has proved to be a relatively inexpensive speaker system that performs quite well with movie soundtracks, giving way only slightly to the x-ls system in the musicality department.

If you'd prefer for the time being to spend less and only upgrade the front soundstage (L/C/R) and subwoofer for now, this might also be a consideration for you. There are several other options than the ones I'd mentioned, but hopefully, these will provide you with some guidance as to what might be your first steps in the 'upgrade' process.

Good luck in your search, Jasin, have fun w/it! -TD

 

[JasinS]

Hey thanks for the reply, I think I decided on the xls speakers and the matching center, havnt decided if I want to replace the rears rite away or do an update on the subwoofer. The room it is going to be in is medium in size btw. My question is it possible to run my current and sub and another new one on top of it or is that not a good idea? And if it is possible could you give me a few options in that department? and back on the subject of what Im going for, I want something loud, my ears arnt to picky about the mids and highs for some reason, so as long as theres plenty of clearity out of the xls speakers and a TON of bass Ill be happy

 

[tomd51]

More than welcome. Personally, I'd suggest upgrading the front soundstage first (LCR) and subwoofer and holding off on the surrounds for now.

Without dogging your existing sub too bad, I wouldn't recommend integrating it into your system unless you're thrilled with it's performance to this point. I think if you compared the AS-P4000 to it, you'll understand why. A solid subwoofer can have a large impact in performance in your system, particularly for movies. In fact, if you can fit a larger sub, I'd recommend the AS-P6000. Audioavisor has it for $299 right now, but stock is limited, so it won't let you order it online. The P4000 isn't going to rattle your house to the ground, but considering it's price point, it's does an admirable job for providing deep, clean bass.

As for being loud, the HK AVR-130 should be able to provide you decent listening levels w/that setup, however if you find that it's not quite enough, you may want to consider stepping up to an HK 335/435, Yamaha 659/HTR 5960/RX-V1500, Denon 2505, Onkyo 703 or a Pioneer 1016TX, all fairly comparable in price and performance. Feature set will vary slightly, but power should be similar. A step up in the sub's performance will take a load off your mains and likely also provide better definition or separation for signals below 80-100Hz, opening things up for the x-ls's to show off... -TD

 

[JasinS]

More than welcome. Personally, I'd suggest upgrading the front soundstage first (LCR) and subwoofer and holding off on the surrounds for now.

Without dogging your existing sub too bad, I wouldn't recommend integrating it into your system unless you're thrilled with it's performance to this point. I think if you compared the AS-P4000 to it, you'll understand why. A solid subwoofer can have a large impact in performance in your system, particularly for movies. In fact, if you can fit a larger sub, I'd recommend the AS-P6000. Audioavisor has it for $299 right now, but stock is limited, so it won't let you order it online. The P4000 isn't going to rattle your house to the ground, but considering it's price point, it's does an admirable job for providing deep, clean bass.

As for being loud, the HK AVR-130 should be able to provide you decent listening levels w/that setup, however if you find that it's not quite enough, you may want to consider stepping up to an HK 335/435, Yamaha 659/HTR 5960/RX-V1500, Denon 2505, Onkyo 703 or a Pioneer 1016TX, all fairly comparable in price and performance. Feature set will vary slightly, but power should be similar. A step up in the sub's performance will take a load off your mains and likely also provide better definition or separation for signals below 80-100Hz, opening things up for the x-ls's to show off... -TD

sounds pretty good, you are finally starting to make me think here anyways I just found this and Im pretty sure I could swing it, do you think this is a pretty good setup compared to what i have?

http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm

and I would go with the larger pb12-nsd sub for sure

or should I stick with the xls speakers and just order a sv subwoofer?

 

[tomd51]

This is a very good setup, better than the one I suggested as the PB10-NSD would toast the AS-P4000, even the AS-P6000 for that matter.

Personally, I'd lean more towards the x-ls speakers and a PB-10 as I believe they'd be a bit better for musical reproduction, but the SVS system would be very comparable as well and either setup would likely be a substantial improvement.

If you have the money for the upgrade to the 12" SVS, do it, you won't be disappointed (lord knows I'm not ), but if not, the PB-10 will shake the walls pretty darn good as well... - TD

 

[Nick250]

Hey thanks for the reply, I think I decided on the xls speakers and the matching center, havnt decided if I want to replace the rears rite away or do an update on the subwoofer. The room it is going to be in is medium in size btw. My question is it possible to run my current and sub and another new one on top of it or is that not a good idea? And if it is possible could you give me a few options in that department? and back on the subject of what Im going for, I want something loud, my ears arnt to picky about the mids and highs for some reason, so as long as theres plenty of clearity out of the xls speakers and a TON of bass Ill be happy

xls will be pretty shy in the bass dept. The B&W 602's I mentioned are a universe better in all categories you deem important. It's your money and your choice of course but I don't understand the picking the xls. Buy two good speakers instead of 5 so-so speakers and build your system as funds become available. That's what I would do.

Nick

 

[Pianoman84d]

Go for the X-LS and never look back. I did and I am loving the sound I receive. As far as subwoofer's go, if you want a major bass boost go for the SVS. Otherwise, I think the X-sub will tide you over until you decide to upgrade to something else. Additionally, the x-sub is very musical.

Remember, we can tell you what we think until the entire forum is blue in the face. The most important thing is that you get a system that makes you happy. To do that, you will need to listen to the various systems and pick your favorite.

 

[PENG]

I agree with Nick. Get a pair of B&W and you will get better sound. The HKAVR130 should do quite well with the B&W entry level models. B&W, KEF, Paradigm makes higher end speakers but also know how to make their lower models sound nice.

 

[JasinS]

I agree with Nick. Get a pair of B&W and you will get better sound. The HKAVR130 should do quite well with the B&W entry level models. B&W, KEF, Paradigm makes higher end speakers but also know how to make their lower models sound nice.

Are you talking about the b&w 300 series or 600 series? what model?

 

[JasinS]

xls will be pretty shy in the bass dept. The B&W 602's I mentioned are a universe better in all categories you deem important. It's your money and your choice of course but I don't understand the picking the xls. Buy two good speakers instead of 5 so-so speakers and build your system as funds become available. That's what I would do.

Nick

I can see your point I am going to look into both before I jump into anything

 

[tomd51]

If you're running the X-LS or SVS speaker package properly crossed over at 80-100Hz (pretty much standard for any speakers that aren't capable of getting below 30hz) and you're running them with a decent subwoofer, the lack of bass from the bookshelfs will be unintelligible.

As for the X-LS being "so-so' speakers, that's a matter of personal preference and highly debatable at to whether they are "a universe better" in Jasin's chosen criteria. Remember, speaker preference is highly subjective. The X-LS line was suggested as a very solid performing speaker at a relatively inexpensive price. Much better performing, more expensive speakers obviously can be suggested, but keep in mind, Jasin offered up a budget and listening criteria for a medium sized room.

Pianoman hit it on the head, though. You can get 100 different suggestions from 100 different people, but only you will be the one at the end of the day that will be doing the listening. That's yet another advantage of one of the X-LS or SVS speaker packages, they both come with 30 and 45 day money back satisfaction guarantees, so the only risk is the cost of shipping. Do as much listening as you can and when you find what you're looking/listening for, you'll know it... -TD

 

[JasinS]

If you're running the X-LS or SVS speaker package properly crossed over at 80-100Hz (pretty much standard for any speakers that aren't capable of getting below 30hz) and you're running them with a decent subwoofer, the lack of bass from the bookshelfs will be unintelligible.

As for the X-LS being "so-so' speakers, that's a matter of personal preference and highly debatable at to whether they are "a universe better" in Jasin's chosen criteria. Remember, speaker preference is highly subjective. The X-LS line was suggested as a very solid performing speaker at a relatively inexpensive price. Much better performing, more expensive speakers obviously can be suggested, but keep in mind, Jasin offered up a budget and listening criteria for a medium sized room.

Pianoman hit it on the head, though. You can get 100 different suggestions from 100 different people, but only you will be the one at the end of the day that will be doing the listening. That's yet another advantage of one of the X-LS or SVS speaker packages, they both come with 30 and 45 day money back satisfaction guarantees, so the only risk is the cost of shipping. Do as much listening as you can and when you find what you're looking/listening for, you'll know it... -TD

Yeah I have heard great things about all these companys so Im not to worried about getting anything thats "junk" I am pretty excited about the new subwoofer now so I just have to budget something nice for the bookshelfs now what model kefs are nice? I am really diggin the looks of their speakers. Although I did have a chance to hear the xls and they do sound pretty darn good for the money..

 

[PENG]

Are you talking about the b&w 300 series or 600 series? what model?

I was talking about the 602 S3, <1% harmonic distortion, 60 to 20,000 Hz, 90 dB SPL at 1m. Minimum impedance 3 ohms but nominal 8 ohms. Your HK 130 should do not too bad but more power will likely do a better job on these speakers.

 

[Nick250]

If you're running the X-LS or SVS speaker package properly crossed over at 80-100Hz (pretty much standard for any speakers that aren't capable of getting below 30hz) and you're running them with a decent subwoofer, the lack of bass from the bookshelfs will be unintelligible.

As for the X-LS being "so-so' speakers, that's a matter of personal preference and highly debatable at to whether they are "a universe better" in Jasin's chosen criteria. Remember, speaker preference is highly subjective. The X-LS line was suggested as a very solid performing speaker at a relatively inexpensive price. Much better performing, more expensive speakers obviously can be suggested, but keep in mind, Jasin offered up a budget and listening criteria for a medium sized room.

Pianoman hit it on the head, though. You can get 100 different suggestions from 100 different people, but only you will be the one at the end of the day that will be doing the listening. That's yet another advantage of one of the X-LS or SVS speaker packages, they both come with 30 and 45 day money back satisfaction guarantees, so the only risk is the cost of shipping. Do as much listening as you can and when you find what you're looking/listening for, you'll know it... -TD

Based on reviews the X-LS are arguably in the top tier in their price range, but I would not build my audio system around a speaker in that category. In my view you build an audio system around the two best main speakers you can get. They are the heart of your system. If one wanted to go ID, I would scrape the funds together to get a pair of Ascend 340 SE's for $568, though I have not heard them. I have heard the B&W 603 S3's for $600 and I think they are terrific speaker and a bargain at that price and would be happy to have them in my system.

That being said, while I think the strategy I suggest has a lot going for it, building an audio system is not a one size fits all deal. How you do it needs to make sense to you, your budget, planed upgrades down the road and so on.

Nick