Help - Too Many Options!

[Texashound]

I recently bought a Rhythmic Audio LV12r sub and added it to my system that currently comprises a much loved pair of old (25 years!) Wharfedale Denton speakers paired with a Yamaha Aventage RX-A1020 receiver.
The sub makes a huge difference, so much so that I notice that the Wharfedale's are struggling to keep up when I play music. This is surprising as I thought that they sounded pretty good prior to installing the sub however I now recognize that it may be time for these venerable old speakers to be replaced.

My problem is that there is too much choice out there to be able to make a decision regarding what I should replace them with. I'd like to limit the budget to $500 - $600, I'm thinking a good pair of bookshelf speakers that will match well with the Rhythmic sub and that will provide similar sound quality (or better) than the Wharfedale's did in their day (hopefully no-one is going to say that the Wharfedale's suck!). I have been looking at the following options (amongst others!):

• Emptek RB5i - $225 / pair, great finish but currently out of stock
• Ascend CMT-340 SE - $540 pair, good reviews but not the greatest finish
• Ascend Sierra-1 - Currently on sale for $800
• SVS Prime - $600 / pair, comes with SVS Bill of Rights (would love to trade up to the Ultra but they are $1,000 a pair which is really pushing the budget!)

Eventually I will add a matching center channel to the system but for now I'm happy with a 2.1 system as most usage is for music.

All comments, advice and feedback will be gratefully received!

 

[Swerd]

I haven't heard the Wharfedale Dentons and what little I've found about them online suggests they may not be bad at all. I found reviews with frequency response curves of the less expensive (?) Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 and the Diamond 220s. If they are at least as good as your Dentons, the options you listed (except for the Ascend Sierra-1 speakers) might not be an improvement. In that case, I think you should revise your budget to the $800 - $1200 range.

Is this your first experience with a subwoofer? When you said, "The sub makes a huge difference, so much so that I notice that the Wharfedale's are struggling to keep up when I play music." it reminded me of myself, and nearly all others who get a subwoofer. We just spent all that money, and damn it, we want to hear it. As a result, the sub is turned up way too loud. When properly balanced, a sub supplements the music but does not drown out the primary speakers. Turn down the sub's volume.

Play with the various choices for a crossover frequency on your Yamaha. And yes, use the bass management controls in the AVR as opposed to those that are on the sub's amp. I'd try an 80 Hz crossover point first, and then some trial and error until you find what seems to work best.

If you try these cost-free things to make sure you have balanced your new sub to the Dentons, you might find your present speakers can stay .

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

a) Before making new purchases, Do make sure that your old speakers don't have any damage to surrounds of woofer or any damage to tweeter - if there is - fix it - you still have a very nice speakers
b) Make sure to read some of AH articles on how to integrate sub into system - it's not just plug as play - http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-setup
Most important bit - is set main speakers as SMALL in your yammi receiver

 

[Texashound]

Swerd

Many thanks for your response.

As noted in my original post the Wharfedale's are old so I'm not too surprised that it was difficult for you to track down much information on them!

I am currently using the bass management controls on the AVR. The sub is crossed over at 100 Hz and the front speakers are set to small. Based on the YPAO automatic setup the sub level is set at +5 db with the left speaker at 0 db and the right at -1 db.

One thing that I'm finding is that the Wharfedale's seem to exhibit some popping at higher volume levels. From what I have read this may be indicative of the woofer in the speakers being overdriven. At lower volume there is no problem however.

Are the speakers 'blown' (damaged) or do I just have the setup wrong?

Thanks for your help on this - I really dont want to buy new speakers and find that they are inferio to those which I already have.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

If you're willing to save up a bit longer (at least till tax return ) these would be significant upgrade:
http://philharmonicaudio.com/New Philharmonitor.html

 

[Cosmic Char]

I have a pair I just got of the least expensive speakers Philharmonic makes, and the are worth the money! I can't imagine how good the $1100 pair sounds! I would seriously consider those. He makes a fantastic product at a low price point.

 

[agarwalro]

Fuzz is selling a pair of SVS Ultras for $800 obo. Check the classifieds section.

 

[fuzz092888]

Fuzz is selling a pair of SVS Ultras for $800 obo. Check the classifieds section.

Less, currently listed for $700. Thanks for the shout out.

 

[agarwalro]

Less, currently listed for $700. Thanks for the shout out.

Man, that is a wicked good deal. The OP would be remiss to miss it.

 

[Texashound]

Less, currently listed for $700. Thanks for the shout out.

Fuzz

Any feel for how the Ultra's might compare to the Wharfedale's? Does anyone know whether the current Denton 80th Anniversary speakers provide similar performance to the late 80's models? Also any feedback that you may have regarding why the speakers "pop" at high volume / heavy bass would be much appreciated.

I'm certainly interested in the Ultra's however I wouldn't like to spend the money only to discover that I don't obtain any improvement over what I presently have.

Thanks.

 

[fuzz092888]

Fuzz

Any feel for how the Ultra's might compare to the Wharfedale's? Does anyone know whether the current Denton 80th Anniversary speakers provide similar performance to the late 80's models? Also any feedback that you may have regarding why the speakers "pop" at high volume / heavy bass would be much appreciated.

I'm certainly interested in the Ultra's however I wouldn't like to spend the money only to discover that I don't obtain any improvement over what I presently have.

Thanks.

I haven't heard a pair of Wharfdale's in awhile, but from what I remember I'll say this about my general impression of the Wharfdale (that I remember) and the SVS Ultras, the SVS will probably sound a touch brighter and more forward than the Wharfdale's. Now, I'm in no way saying that the SVS are bright and forward, just in comparison to the Wharfdale's (that I remember) they'll a bit more that way. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially depending on the type of music you listen to. Since you mention high volumes and heavy bass I'm going to definitely steer you towards the Ultras and not just because I'm selling a pair. If you search around for the review GranteedEV did on the Ultras big brothers (the floorstanders) the Ultras have a wheel house that loud volumes fall into. They're a great pair of speakers, and definitely a "fun" pair that begs to be cranked louder. Paired with a good sub and crossed over around 80-100Hz and your ears will beg for mercy long before the Ultras run out of gas.

The Ultras are also much more sensitive than the Wharfdale's, which means it'll take much less power to get them to louder levels.

To answer your other question, if the Wharfdale's are popping at high volume/heavy bass it means that you're overdriving the woofer. It's being asked to play too loudly or at too low a frequency and doesn't have the excursion to meet the volume requirements.

Whether you buy a new pair of Ultras or mine it sounds, just from a few of your comments, that they'll be a much better fit for you.

 

[Texashound]

if the Wharfdale's are popping at high volume/heavy bass it means that you're overdriving the woofer. It's being asked to play too loudly or at too low a frequency and doesn't have the excursion to meet the volume requirements.

Fuzz

Thanks for your response - much appreciated.

So, the solution with the Wharfedale's is to play them at lower volume? Generally I hear them start to pop around -20 db. Is that what you would expect given the RX-A1020 that is driving them?

 

[fuzz092888]

Fuzz

Thanks for your response - much appreciated.

So, the solution with the Wharfedale's is to play them at lower volume? Generally I hear them start to pop around -20 db. Is that what you would expect given the RX-A1020 that is driving them?

From the specs I could find the Denton's have a frequency range of 60-16kHz. Doesn't say if 60Hz is the -3db point, but either way, this tells me the woofer lacks very much excursion or low frequency ability. They probably need to be crossed at least 120Hz if not higher. The brochure I found also says power handling is 18 watts. Definitely not a speaker you can play loudly.

 

[Texashound]

From the specs I could find the Denton's have a frequency range of 60-16kHz. Doesn't say if 60Hz is the -3db point, but either way, this tells me the woofer lacks very much excursion or low frequency ability. They probably need to be crossed at least 120Hz if not higher. The brochure I found also says power handling is 18 watts. Definitely not a speaker you can play loudly.

I currently have them crossed over at 100 Hz. Would you advise that I change this and, if so, what would you recommend that I set the crossover at?

 

[fuzz092888]

I currently have them crossed over at 100 Hz. Would you advise that I change this and, if so, what would you recommend that I set the crossover at?

If you're getting popping at 100Hz, I would set it as high as you can and go from there. Set it as high as the receiver will allow and slowly start raising the volume and see if it starts happening again on tracks you know it has happened before. If it doesn't, it's kind of a temporary fix, and if it doesn't then you know you need a new pair of speakers to listen at those volumes.

I say temporary fix, because when you start getting above 80-100Hz, that's where people tend to be able to better localize sounds. This means you're basically changing from a bookshelf/subwoofer system to creating your own 3-way speaker. You do not want that.

 

[Texashound]

If you're getting popping at 100Hz, I would set it as high as you can and go from there. Set it as high as the receiver will allow and slowly start raising the volume and see if it starts happening again on tracks you know it has happened before. If it doesn't, it's kind of a temporary fix, and if it doesn't then you know you need a new pair of speakers to listen at those volumes.

I say temporary fix, because when you start getting above 80-100Hz, that's where people tend to be able to better localize sounds. This means you're basically changing from a bookshelf/subwoofer system to creating your own 3-way speaker. You do not want that.

How would you compare the Ultra's to the Ascend Sierra-1's - they are more or less at the same price point I think. Do you have a recommendation regarding which one might fit better into a room that is approximately 25 x 15 x 8 ft with one side almost completely open.

 

[fuzz092888]

How would you compare the Ultra's to the Ascend Sierra-1's - they are more or less at the same price point I think. Do you have a recommendation regarding which one might fit better into a room that is approximately 25 x 15 x 8 ft with one side almost completely open.

I've never heard the Sierra-1's so I can't comment on their sound vs the SVS. That's a pretty big room, but both speakers should be able to fill it easily as long as they are crossed over to subwoofers. That's definitely too big a space for a single LV-R 12 to adequately pressurize.

 

[agarwalro]

Maybe you should consider speakers that'll give you better power handling.

I can't find any reviews for these, but, you're already used to the brand and they fit the budget,

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-182357-wharfedale-diamond-105-cherry-tower-speakers-pr-demo.aspx

I'm going to say you need something like these,

http://reactionaudio.com/collections/speakers/products/cx-10