HELP Please - SVS PB-13 Ultra vs / or Rythmik FV15HP Subwoofer(s)????

[TOOdamnFRANK]

SVS PB-13 Ultra vs / or Rythmik FV15HP Subwoofer

Please help, I am in one heck of a pickle since I can't decide between the piano gloss Rythmik FV15HP ($1700) and the SVS PB-13 Ultra ($2000) with a similar finish. I have read numerous reviews on both and really think i might be happy with either one, but id like some help and advice from some of you that may own these subs or even just a similar sub from either company, or maybe even if you have just heard the subs in question first hand before at some point or are generally knowledgeable on these, and other subwoofers in general. My plan is to purchase one of these 2 models in the next month so please if you comment try to keep it about these models because I am honestly on the fence and keep going back and forth and am slightly leaning toward the Rythmik today. Which means tomorrow it could be the other way around.
Anyway, my search began because I need a real sub to go with my new Aperion Audio Verus Grand 7.2 setup where my current ".2" are now crap by comparison. I am in the middle of creating a "real" home theater setup and its time to upgrade the subwoofers to something worthy of crossing-over with these amazing speakers I have come to love. I need it to dig down deep, sound really good playing movies and music (80% Movie / 20% Music), and also has a lot of output as well. (I know I'm asking a lot) Another aspect would be its ability to blend well in to my current system while playing loud enough to keep up with my system at above reference levels, but i doubt either would have much problem. Regardless of whichever sub i buy i also plan on adding a second one of the same type in a few months, but this purchase would be intended to last, hopefully, for a few years, so id like to make a well informed decision and buy a sub I am going to love the sound of. That said, I will try and list a few details that might help you in helping me decide. (Any opinions would be greatly appreciated, especially ones that are based on good information and can be helpful)


I am fairly new in the home theater hobby (a little over 1 year), but i read up on it constantly through various websites, magazines, forums. Anyway this is what i guess you would call my 2nd home theater setup. Or at least an evolution of my 1st one and what its become. My Current System consists of the following components;
Onkyo 818 Receiver (PreOut)
Wyred 4 Sound MC7X250 Amplifier
(7 x 250 watts @8ohms /
7 x 550watts @4ohms)
Oppo BDP-103 BluRay/SACD
Music Hall MMF-2.2LE Turntable
Custom HTPC (my own design & build)
PS3 & Xbox360
Furman Elite-15 PFi (Surge Protector)
Aperion Audio Verus Grand Towers (front/6ohm)
Aperion Audio Verus Grand Center
(6ohm)
Aperion Audio Verus Grand Bookshelf (surrounds/6ohm)
current subwoofer(s) are a set of fairly useless Polk Audio PSW505 (Go ahead and chuckle, I would too in your shoes, but this is technically only my 2nd attempt at putting together my own home theater meaning they were the first subs I had ever purchased)
There are also various other electronic goodies attached, but I don't think listing them here would serve much purpose.


The "listening area" is a living room that connects to an open kitchen/dining room through two open sides with one wall running between the two rooms in the middle that doesn't seal the rooms off from one another that has a large couch against it (main seating area). I know this isn't ideal for listening purposes but it's where the girlfriend wants the couch, so I'm forced to make due. *I will attempt to embed, or attach, a picture of the room dimensions and layout with this post*

Some of my main concerns with the SVS is that I have read in various threads that it digs some-what deep compared to the Rythmik but some forum users have said that it doesn't sound as good as other subs (like the Rythmik) or that SVS subs in general just aren't "musical" enough. (Not aure how true this is but it worries me) Also, and this may be a dumb question, but is my APC power conditioner capable of handling the SVS 1000 watt RMS, let alone its massive "peak" power moments running through it???? and lastly like the Rythmik it was said to have audible port noise at high playback levels below 20hz (according to a review, I think it was on audioholics or data-bass) either way its a slight concern of mine. I'm not sure if port noise is common in all ported subs or not, so I guess its something ill have to tame since I don't want sealed subs.
As for the Rythmik I have read that it has some audible port noise below 20hz which then gets even louder in 1 port tuning mode when played at high levels? Anyone experience this first hand or know just how bad it is?
I haven't heard either sub yet for myself and auditioning them is sadly not a possibility, which i probably the main reason why i am here and in need of your help, knowledge and opinions. So basically any truthful input on this would be greatly appreciated and please try to be unbiased if at all possible and treat both of my selections with some level of respect I guess. I know enough to know that I don't know everything about home theater and speaker setups and am still somewhat of a novice in this hobby that some of you have spent decades invested in but these seem to be my 2 best available options for my current setup, size limit, price limit, and WAF. I have the thumbs up on either unit so please help me out guys and/or girls on choosing between the 2 and not steering me towards another unit which might ultimately only confuse me further by making me do more research and second guess myself. (HaHa)
-Thanks in advance for any helpful replies, and for taking the time to actually read my post and answer some of my questions. Also for taking me seriously even though I am new to the home theater game and still learning.
Frank

 

[TOOdamnFRANK]

*PLEASE HELP ME DECIDE* SVS PB-13 Ultra {OR} Rythmik FV15HP????

Please Help Me Decide Between These 2 Subwoofers Through Your Own Individual Experiences, Opinions, Comparisons, Thoughts, Insight, General Knowledge Or Maybe Even A Helpful Little Review If You Own One Or Have Experienced One First Hand For Yourself In The Past. Unfortunately it is not possible for me to hear / audition either speaker for myself before purchasing either, but I have read many reviews on various subs, including a dozen or more on these 2, in an effort to try and help myself decide exactly what I need. As stated before, I have painstakingly narrowed it down to these 2 highly praised subs for numerous reasons that I won't go too far in depth with or bore you further with so lets just say its gotta be one of these 2 or it wont be going in the living room. *Whip Cracking Sound From The My Woman* The 2 Beautiful Beasts I Cant Decide Between Are The SVS PB-13 Ultra {13.5"} & The Rythmik FV15HP {15"} Subwoofers. Regardless of which one I end up choosing I still plan on adding a second sub (obviously of the same model) about a month or so later, to hopefully help smooth out the in-room frequency response a little & lighten the loads placed on the first one when played at, and sometimes even above, reference levels. Especially when the woman isn't home to stop me.

With That In Mind, And After Considering Some, If Not All, Of The Information Contained In The Post Below; PLEASE HELP ME MAKE THE "RIGHT" CHOICE.
I have slightly over one month before I make my final decision & purchase my first "real" subwoofers and therefor I am in one heck of a pickle because I honestly can't decide between the piano gloss version of the Rythmik FV15HP {$3400 = $1700 x 2 Shipped} and the SVS PB-13 Ultra {$4000 / $2000 x 2 Shipped} with a similar finish.... I have read numerous reviews on both speakers (reviews that were both professional, opinionated, biased, and even a few that were objective / un-biased or so I hope.) Moving on, I really think I could possibly be happy with either one on the two units in question, but I would like some help and advice from some of you that may own these subs or even just a similar sub from either company. Maybe even if you have just heard the subs in question first hand before at some point or are generally knowledgeable on these, and other, subwoofers.
Ultimately I would hate to have spent $3600, or even $4000, only to end up disappointed, or possibly left wondering if I made a well informed decision or not. If at all possible, in the end I'd like to leave this forum / discussion knowing that I made a well informed decision to buy a quality product that will bring out the most in my current setup for movie nights at home and listening to my LP's during the lunch hour. I am honestly on the fence and keep going back and forth, but as of this week I am slightly leaning towards the Rythmik.


Anyway, my search began because I need a real sub to go with my new Aperion Audio Verus Grand 7.2 setup where my current ".2" are now crap by comparison. I am in the middle of creating a "real" home theater setup and its time to upgrade the subwoofers to something worthy of crossing-over with these amazing speakers I have come to love. I need it to dig down deep, sound really good playing movies and music (80% Movie / 20% Music), and also has a lot of output as well. (I know I'm asking a lot) Another aspect would be its ability to blend well in to my current system while playing loud enough to keep up with my system at above reference levels, but i doubt either would have much problem. Regardless of whichever sub i buy i also plan on adding a second one of the same type in a few months, but this purchase would be intended to last, hopefully, for a few years, so id like to make a well informed decision and buy a sub I am going to love the sound of. That said, I will try and list a few details that might help you in helping me decide. (Any opinions would be greatly appreciated, especially ones that are based on good information and can be helpful)


I am fairly new in the home theater hobby (a little over 1 year), but i read up on it constantly through various websites, magazines, forums. Anyway this is what i guess you would call my 2nd home theater setup. Or at least an evolution of my 1st one and what its become.
CURRENT EQUIPMENT / SETUP;
- Onkyo 818 Receiver (PreOut)
- Wyred 4 Sound MC7X250 Amplifier
(7 x 250 watts @8ohms / 7 x 550watts @4ohms)
- Oppo BDP-103 Universal Blu-Ray Player (SACD/DVD-A)
- Music Hall MMF-2.2LE Turntable
- Custom Intel Core i7 2700K HTPC
(My Own Custom Design & Build)
- PS3 (w/ 512GB OCZ SSD Boot Drive)
- Xbox 360 (w/ 750GB Hybrid SSD)
- Furman Elite-15 PFi (Surge Protector)
- Aperion Audio Verus Grand Towers (fronts/6ohm)
- Aperion Audio Verus Grand Center (center/6ohm)
- Aperion Audio Verus Grand Bookshelf (surrounds/6ohm)[/I]


As for my current "subwoofers" *Take A Deep Breath, Cringe, And Pause For Laughter* lets just get it out there and admit my mistakes and say that they are a set of "one note", bloated, port chuffing, and bloomy Polk Audio PSW505 that I bought for $150 each @ NewEgg.com before I really knew any better and randomly decided I wanted to move away from the world of HTIB setups & thinking Best Buy was the only place around that sold speakers. Go ahead and chuckle, I now would too in your shoes, but this is technically only my 2nd attempt at putting together my own setup, with those being all thats really left over from the first.
There are also various ther electronic goodies attached to the full setup, but I don't think listing them here would serve much purpose.


The "listening area" is a living room that connects to an open kitchen/dining room through two open sides with one wall running between the two rooms in the middle that doesn't seal the rooms off from one another that has a large couch against it (main seating area). I know this isn't ideal for listening purposes but it's where the girlfriend wants the couch, so I'm forced to make due. *I will attempt to embed, or attach, a picture of the room dimensions and layout with this post*

Some of my concerns with the SVS are the fact that the piano black finish doesn't seem to be in stock very often and when it is actually in stock it sells out quickly (so getting 2 of them about month apart when I need / want them might be tricky to say the least.) Also I worry slightly about some of the reviews and various posts in a few forum discussions I have read that all say how the frequency response doesn't dig as deep when compared to the Rythmik (I would assume this is because of the 1.5" difference in surface area between the two along with port tuning.) some forum users have said that it doesn't sound as good as other subs (like the Rythmik) or that SVS subs in general just aren't "musical" enough. (Not aure how true this is but it worries me.) Also, and this may be a dumb question, but does anyone here know if my Furman Elite 15PFI (surge protector) is capable of handling the SVS 1000 watt RMS, let alone its massive "peak" power moments this subwoofer is capable of on top of my existing amplifier without completely limiting their performance???? Lastly, like the Rythmik it was said to have audible port noise at high playback levels below 20hz (according to a review, I think it was on the audioholics and/or data-bass.) Regardless of which sire it was this is now a slight concern of mine. I'm not sure if port noise is common in all ported subs or not, although I'm pretty sure its fairly common, so I guess its something ill have to tame since I don't want sealed subs.
As for the Rythmik I have read that it has some audible port noise below 20hz which then gets even louder in 1 port tuning mode when played at high levels? Anyone experience this first hand or know just how bad it is?
I haven't heard either sub yet for myself and auditioning them is sadly not a possibility, which i probably the main reason why i am here and in need of your help, knowledge and opinions. So basically any truthful input on this would be greatly appreciated and please try to be unbiased if at all possible and treat both of my selections with some level of respect I guess. I know enough to know that I don't know everything about home theater and speaker setups and am still somewhat of a novice in this hobby that some of you have spent decades invested in but these seem to be my 2 best available options for my current setup, size limit, price limit, and WAF. I have the thumbs up on either unit so please help me out guys and/or girls on choosing between the 2 and not steering me towards another unit which might ultimately only confuse me further by making me do more research and second guess myself. (HaHa)


Thanks in advance for any helpful replies, and for just taking the time to actually read my post and hopefully answer some of my questions. Also thank you for, hopefully, taking my questions seriously even though I am new to the home theater game and am frequently still learning as I go along. I apologize for the massive length of this post, the general rumblings with-in, and multiple questions that may be disorganized, misspelled, and down right silly to some of this forums long-time users, but I believe that the best way to learn is to ask questions of the people who know more than you on a given subject, and who may or may not have been in your shoes before.
THANKS A LOT GUYS (and possibly girls),
- Frank

 

[Steve81]

I really think I could possibly be happy with either one on the two units in question

This would be my line of thought, coming from a PB13U owner. What swung me over to the SVS was the real black oak finish (which isn't applicable in your case), 5 year bumper to bumper warranty, benefits of the DSP control (ie relatively bulletproof operation, advanced feature set), and the sealed mode intrigued me a bit as well.

Also I worry slightly about some of the reviews and various posts in a few forum discussions I have read that all say how the frequency response doesn't dig as deep when compared to the Rythmik

This is the case if you use the 1 port mode on the Rythmik, which tunes it to 12Hz. Of course, given your desire to drive things to reference level and beyond, I wouldn't recommend this mode of operation as you are more likely to drive it to the point of port chuffing.

SVS subs in general just aren't "musical" enough

Realistically speaking, it comes down to

a. The ability to properly integrate the sub with the room given that the room will dominate low end response.
b. The preferences of the listener.

In either case, the measurements of the PB13U (and the FV15HP for that matter) speak for themselves: both are very much reference quality subs.

Also, and this may be a dumb question, but does anyone here know if my Furman Elite 15PFI (surge protector) is capable of handling the SVS 1000 watt RMS, let alone its massive "peak" power moments this subwoofer is capable of on top of my existing amplifier without completely limiting their performance????

I've never had any problems tripping a breaker or anything in my setup; most of the time my APC C10 surge protector reads 20% capacity, even at very high levels. Of course, I can peg it if I plug in the vacuum cleaner YMMV though (my speakers are reasonably sensitive and I have a small space), and a dedicated circuit or two wouldn't be a bad idea if possible given your concern.

Lastly, like the Rythmik it was said to have audible port noise at high playback levels below 20hz (according to a review, I think it was on the audioholics and/or data-bass.) Regardless of which sire it was this is now a slight concern of mine. I'm not sure if port noise is common in all ported subs or not, although I'm pretty sure its fairly common, so I guess its something ill have to tame since I don't want sealed subs.

I've never run into any port compression using 2 port mode (which is my standard), and I do push it pretty hard at times, FWIW. Depends on the program material though. If you run 16Hz sine tones at full power, you could probably elicit chuffing. Real world material I'd expect is a lot less of a concern. Same goes for the Rythmik.

 

[jbrown15]

Based on the measurements posted at data-bass.com I still don't see any performance advantages that justify the extra $600 it costs for a PB13-Ultra over a FV15HP. I could have way off but I haven't really heard of one valid reason other then you get an extra 3 years of warranty on the amp. But of course you get an extra 2 years warranty on the driver with the FV15HP. Customer service wise its basically a wash between the two as they both have top notch customer service.

 

[jbrown15]

LOL... how many times are you going to post this now? I think you'll find that most of the guys that lurk on these forums are also on the AVSforums too, where you have your other thread going.

 

[manwithnocape]

Go here and do a little more reading.

Data-Bass

they reviewed and have graphs on both of these subs.

all the concerns that you are talking about are well documented. part of the problem of a sub not sounding good is port noise, to avoid this kind of issue, you will need to consider a sub with a low turbulence port design, passive radiator, or sealed. IMO a sealed sub digs deeper and inherently sounds tighter, which works fantastic for music (again, my opinion). only really good ported designs are worth considering... but you'll have to pay more than $1200 for it.

apart from actual subwoofer components and motor design, the other issue is room characteristics. adding some sound absorption will help make your audio sound better, but it wont fix port design or driver design flaws.

i personally think you might want to think about climbing up the ladder in your budget. or think sealed/dual opposed or passive rad. to eliminate the issue of port noise. if you bump up the price range to about $1500, you can get way better. seaton, jtr, funk.

i've heard the Rythmik... wont touch it. i haven't heard the SVS, and dont need to, its still a mid range sub. just an opinion.

cape.

 

[ImcLoud]

I would go with the ultra personally, not really sure why but I never heard the rythmic, sooooo....

I am leaning towards DIY subs from now on, since I heard a diy pair powered by a Crown xls2500 with 2 jl audio 13.5 subs in custom enclosures, the total cost was under $2500 and they sounded amazing!!!! Just pure low hz power, I have never heard before...

 

[manwithnocape]

this is also an option if you have some tools and know-how.

I would go with the ultra personally, not really sure why but I never heard the rythmic, sooooo....

I am leaning towards DIY subs from now on, since I heard a diy pair powered by a Crown xls2500 with 2 jl audio 13.5 subs in custom enclosures, the total cost was under $2500 and they sounded amazing!!!! Just pure low hz power, I have never heard before...