Help! Mixer & Recorder Mayhem

[gregz]

I need to record a pianist's rehersals so he can play it back later to adjust his technique.

I have a Behringer mixer to phantom power my 1" condenser mike. The mixer is rated to output +22 dBu which is 9.75 Vrms by my calculations.

The problem is most affordable MD and CD recorders have maximum input of 500 mV at best. This will put me in the situation of turning the mixer output almost to the off position, which will do nothing good for my S/N or dynamic range.

Rather than shell out $1500 for a professional DAT deck, I'm thinking I'll buy a $150 MD recorder and shunt the input voltage with a simple high value resistor divider to keep myself out of trouble.

The specs on the Sony MDS-JE480 claim "Rated input 500mVrms, with minimum input of 125mVrms." That 125 scares me; does it indicate a high noise floor?

Is there a better choice?

 

[gregz]

In addition, the aforementioned Sony MD recorder deck also has an optical digital input which would bypass the cheezy analog input.

I've looked for mixers with digital 660nm optical output, but no luck. It seems only HT receivers use that, and even good ones have maximum pre-amp input levels in the 200mVrms range.

The artist is used to reel to reel deck made in the 60's. Assuming I'm screwed and stuck with a shunted input to the cheap MD deck, will I be in the ballpark of his old "reference" system?

Thanks!

 

[WmAx]

Which Behringer mixer is this? I have a Behringer UB1202; it has the standard +22dbU outputs but it also has tape outputs which are consumer -10dbu, with RCA style jacks. Does yours have this option? If not, a 50kohm potentiometer with a very short low capacitrance cable connecting to the MD input will work just fine to reduce the +22dBu level to standard consumer level.

-Chris

I need to record a pianist's rehersals so he can play it back later to adjust his technique.

I have a Behringer mixer to phantom power my 1" condenser mike. The mixer is rated to output +22 dBu which is 9.75 Vrms by my calculations.

The problem is most affordable MD and CD recorders have maximum input of 500 mV at best. This will put me in the situation of turning the mixer output almost to the off position, which will do nothing good for my S/N or dynamic range.

Rather than shell out $1500 for a professional DAT deck, I'm thinking I'll buy a $150 MD recorder and shunt the input voltage with a simple high value resistor divider to keep myself out of trouble.

The specs on the Sony MDS-JE480 claim "Rated input 500mVrms, with minimum input of 125mVrms." That 125 scares me; does it indicate a high noise floor?

Is there a better choice?

 

[gregz]

Thnx for the reply, WmAx. The Behringer mixer I have is the Eurorack UB802, and the spec sheet shows +22dBu for Aux sends.

I'm also very concerned with what looks like an input offset bias on the analog input of the Sony - that 125mV minimum input. Not to mention the Sony spec sheet gives S/N ratio and distortion figures for playback only, and no specs at all for analog in. Doesn't exactly give me warm fuzzies.

A co-worker came up with a solution that I think I'll go for. I'll buy a Behringer DEQ2496 equalizer with optical digital out. It's a $300 overkill solution, but it's a HECK of a lot cheaper than the alternatives and it lets me bypass that very questionable Sony analog front end.

 

[Mudcat]

Greg,

I have two cassette based mixers and one hard drive recorder/mixer.

Tascam 414MkII - 4 track cassette recorder/mixer
Vestax MR66 - 6 Track cassette recorder/mixer
Vestax HDR6 - 6 track Hard drive recorder/mixer

I have been recording my wifes practice sessions and performances using cheap mics and expensive mics, condensers, electeret (whatever), dynamic mics etc..

I have never had a problem with noise (background noise is another matter - especially when two kids won't let you do what you want to do), or voltages.

You can get the Tascam new for about $230 and on ebay for under a $100.

 

[WmAx]

If you have a soundcard with >96dB output S/N(measured), just output from your analog output to the MD(use a voltage divider;e.g.; a pot -to achieve optimal attenuatio without clipping) and record the signal. You can analyse the recorded signal using RMAA and find the S/N ratio.

If you want a flexible sole purposed ADC/DAC device, I would recommend the Behringer SRC2496. It's cheaper then the DEQ and it has immense flexibillity for these applications. It will be a better choice as compared to the DEQ unless you specifically need equalization conrols.

-Chris

Thnx for the reply, WmAx. The Behringer mixer I have is the Eurorack UB802, and the spec sheet shows +22dBu for Aux sends.

I'm also very concerned with what looks like an input offset bias on the analog input of the Sony - that 125mV minimum input. Not to mention the Sony spec sheet gives S/N ratio and distortion figures for playback only, and no specs at all for analog in. Doesn't exactly give me warm fuzzies.

A co-worker came up with a solution that I think I'll go for. I'll buy a Behringer DEQ2496 equalizer with optical digital out. It's a $300 overkill solution, but it's a HECK of a lot cheaper than the alternatives and it lets me bypass that very questionable Sony analog front end.

 

[gregz]

Hi Mudcat, I looked at the all in one cassette recorder/mixers, but decided to go the digital route this time. I've always used cassette decks in the past, but I'm through with (harder to find) expensive tapes and adjusting the bias for each side of each tape. And I'm tired of the shortcomings of DolbyNR, which I'm forced to use to have enough dynamic range to capture a grand piano playing Chopin in a living room without resorting to sound compression.

WmAx, you're a day late but a hundred dollars short. Since I already ordered the equalizer, I'll stay my course. Ya never know, I might need to adjust for room sound problems. If that A/D converter had been more like a hundred bucks, I'd be all over it.

Thanks again, guys.

An aside:
I called up Sony technical help (stop laughing) in the hopes that I could talk to someone intelligent to find out what the specs are for the MD analog input. I'll write my experience up in the Steam Vent. Yup.

 

[WmAx]

An aside:
I called up Sony technical help (stop laughing) in the hopes that I could talk to someone intelligent to find out what the specs are for the MD analog input. I'll write my experience up in the Steam Vent. Yup.

HAHAHAHAHA. Sorry, i can't stop. HAHAHAHA.

-Chris

 

[Steve1000]

Interesting stuff, Gregz. I have the Behringer DEQ2496 equalizer and UB802 mixer, and switched from casette (adjusting the bias and recording levels on a Dobly S three-head deck, talk about pure living he!!) to minidisc 6 or 7 years ago. I've only used the minidisc for home and portable audio (with a couple exceptions -- not-so-serious attempts at home recording, just recording joke songs), but from my experience the recording s/n ratio is "pretty darn high," and the quailty of the analog inputs is "pretty darn good." It is my user's impressions that the dynamic range of minidisc easily surpasses that of Dolby S casette recordings. Setting of recording levels so that you get no audible noise is relatively very easy with minidisc.

My suggestion would be don't even try to use anything but the ATRAC Type S for your recordings of performances. ATRAC S is quite good, IMHO.

I use a Boss BR-864 multitrack digital recorder for my home recording travesties nowadays.

I am really, really happy with all of the equipment. Hope it all works for you. I'll enjoy reading and learning from what you write of the use of your equipment.

Funny thread over in the Steam Vent about Sony customer support, BTW.

Hi Mudcat, I looked at the all in one cassette recorder/mixers, but decided to go the digital route this time. I've always used cassette decks in the past, but I'm through with (harder to find) expensive tapes and adjusting the bias for each side of each tape. And I'm tired of the shortcomings of DolbyNR, which I'm forced to use to have enough dynamic range to capture a grand piano playing Chopin in a living room without resorting to sound compression.

WmAx, you're a day late but a hundred dollars short. Since I already ordered the equalizer, I'll stay my course. Ya never know, I might need to adjust for room sound problems. If that A/D converter had been more like a hundred bucks, I'd be all over it.

Thanks again, guys.

An aside:
I called up Sony technical help (stop laughing) in the hopes that I could talk to someone intelligent to find out what the specs are for the MD analog input. I'll write my experience up in the Steam Vent. Yup.