Help me with upconversion and mode

[bmninada]

Scenario:

Blue-ray -> HDMI -> A/V Receiver -> HDMI -> Plasma TV 1080p
DVD -> HDMI -> A/V Receiver -> HDMI -> Plasma TV (same)

My blue-ray up-converts (if required) to 1080p and has all those fancy Dolby-X and X-HD format compatibilities.

1. If the A/V doesn't have those formats : what happens? If it has - what happens?

2. If the players already up-converting the stream, will my A/V understand it and do a pass-through or do a 2nd. conversion, etc. ?

3. I also connect sometimes my camcorder (component) or my iPod (via a dock which has component video OUT) to my A/V. Here I understand the A/V will "attempt" to up-convert the input analog data while sending it to TV? Does it normally happen automatically or I need to do some special settings here?

BTW : I don't think I have too much control on how and what gets sent out from my Blue-ray or my DVD players.

 

[JerryLove]

You didn't mention the exact units. In most cases, these are all programmable options on both the AVR and Blu-Ray, so what they will do depends on what you set them to do.

If your Blu-Ray is outputting (1080p), what up-conversion do you think your AVR will do? If the input is less than whatever your AVR is set to up-convert to, the it will up-convert (if that port is set to up-convert), otherwise it should leave it alone.

In my experience, most equipment auto-negotiates sound correctly. OTOH, my AVR does decode all the formats my BR can feed it. If for some reason your BR sends only a signal that the AVR cannot decode, you will get no sound. Change your BR settings to exclude unsupported formats.

Also remember that, thanks to the MPAA, none of your gear will take an HDMI signal and put it out another connector.

 

[MDS]

My blue-ray up-converts (if required) to 1080p and has all those fancy Dolby-X and X-HD format compatibilities.

1. If the A/V doesn't have those formats : what happens? If it has - what happens?

If the receiver does not have support for decoding those formats, you have to set the player to output PCM. The player does the decoding to PCM and the receiver does the conversion to analog, amplification, and output to the speakers. This requires the receiver to support multi-channel PCM; if it does not, then it has to be downmixed to 2 channel PCM.

2. If the players already up-converting the stream, will my A/V understand it and do a pass-through or do a 2nd. conversion, etc. ?

It will just amplify it and sent it to the connected speakers.

3. I also connect sometimes my camcorder (component) or my iPod (via a dock which has component video OUT) to my A/V. Here I understand the A/V will "attempt" to up-convert the input analog data while sending it to TV? Does it normally happen automatically or I need to do some special settings here?

It depends on the settings for your receiver. Usually you have to tell it to 'transcode' component video to HDMI. You'll have to make an addtional connection to the receiver for the audio.

 

[bmninada]

PCM - got that part, applicable if my A/V doesn't support the format. Receiver post conversions sends it to speakers but
Q: what about the video part to TV?
Q: In case a particular type of VIDEO is un-supported in A/V receiver but the audio coming in thru the single HDMI is being recognized. Can this occur? Then, can I split the video from BR to TV and audio to A/V receiver?

Camcoder/iPod I understand and also the need for additional conn. for audio.

My 2 general questions would be then:

If my BR can do the same stuff with a format like my A/V does - where then to do it? if A/V - can I force the player to send "as-is" and let A/V do the "magic" or the "magic's" best done at the player side itself?

Why I ask is I see a lot of A/V (budget) which can up-convert to 1080i but not to 1080p. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

 

[JerryLove]

If my BR can do the same stuff with a format like my A/V does - where then to do it? if A/V - can I force the player to send "as-is" and let A/V do the "magic" or the "magic's" best done at the player side itself?

You can try each to see what does the best upscaling. Usually it's the TV or the BR player. It seems that the AVR is not usually the best upscaler in the chain. For me, I let my PS3 upscale my DVDs (it's considered to have a good upscaler).

Why I ask is I see a lot of A/V (budget) which can up-convert to 1080i but not to 1080p. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

So you are asking if a 1080p signal will pass through successfully an AVR that only supports 1080i upconverting?

I think the answer is yes (assuming HDMI versions are correct, not a 1.1 AVR with a 1.3a source), but I honestly don't know. That will have to wait for a more knowledgeably poster.

 

[bmninada]

Mostly - my questions are answered. I think my BR will do a better job but yes - definitely need to know if my A/V will take the 1080p input from the BR and pass it on to my TV as 1080p ; since by default my A/V does not support 1080p - only 1080i.

 

[MDS]

Mostly - my questions are answered. I think my BR will do a better job but yes - definitely need to know if my A/V will take the 1080p input from the BR and pass it on to my TV as 1080p ; since by default my A/V does not support 1080p - only 1080i.

The '1080i' aspect of the receiver is only applicable to signals with a lower resolution (480i, 480p, 720p) and then only if you turn that feature on. It should just pass through the 1080p signal as-is.

If you turn the upconversion feature off, then the TV will do the scaling and/or deinterlacing and most likely do a much better job of it anyway.

 

[bmninada]

This is truly confusing me. Let me explain. BR does the decoding part and as per this thread and some others I've read - most probably will do a better job than the A/V Receiver. Similarly - the TV if need to upconvert will again most probably do a better job than the A/V Receiver. So why exactly have those formats in the A/V, have upconversion option in the A/V? Wouldn't removing them (a) Decrease the cost but still retain the core features of the receiver - provide excellent amplification to audio and the tool by which various A/V connects together (b) Give manufacturer more room to actually make the audio sound even greater.
What is it I am missing here??

 

[PENG]

This is truly confusing me. Let me explain. BR does the decoding part and as per this thread and some others I've read - most probably will do a better job than the A/V Receiver. Similarly - the TV if need to upconvert will again most probably do a better job than the A/V Receiver. So why exactly have those formats in the A/V, have upconversion option in the A/V? Wouldn't removing them (a) Decrease the cost but still retain the core features of the receiver - provide excellent amplification to audio and the tool by which various A/V connects together (b) Give manufacturer more room to actually make the audio sound even greater.
What is it I am missing here??

The upconversion feature allows an AV receiver to accept analog connections such as RCA, S-video and component video and output the converted signal via HDMI. This way you only need one HDMI cable between the AV receiver and the TV. Upscaling feature does seem to be less useful unless the AV receiver is equipped with a high end video processor. This is especially true if you use players with HDMI outputs exclusively.

 

[bmninada]

This is terrific, I am learning a lot here.

Question: What type of "high-end video processor" are we talking about here? Can you suggest what I should be looking for in the specs of say Denon, Onkyo, Marantx?

Question: How do I determine if my A/V receiver supports multi-channel PCM input or a 2-channel only?

Question: Lastly, there seems to be mode whereby the receiver does not do any processing but takes "as-is" the player's inputs to out into the speakers - called Direct Mode or something. What is it and how does it tie to this overall picture of decoding? Does it mean I have to have a similar feature in my player too?

 

[PENG]

This is terrific, I am learning a lot here.

Question: What type of "high-end video processor" are we talking about here? Can you suggest what I should be looking for in the specs of say Denon, Onkyo, Marantx?

Anchor Bay Technologies, Silicon Optix Reon and Realta, Gennum VXP and PixelWorks all make high quality video processors.

Denon's top model uses the Silicon Optix Realta while the latest mid range and lower models use the Anchor Bay Technologies Inc. ABT 2010 and 1030.

Onkyo's top and near top model receivers use the Silicon Optix Reon.

Marantz has used ABT in their receivers, not sure which one.

Question: How do I determine if my A/V receiver supports multi-channel PCM input or a 2-channel only?

I would think in most cases they do make that clear in their published literatures available on their websites.

Question: Lastly, there seems to be mode whereby the receiver does not do any processing but takes "as-is" the player's inputs to out into the speakers - called Direct Mode or something. What is it and how does it tie to this overall picture of decoding? Does it mean I have to have a similar feature in my player too?

It depends on the brand/model. I have a Denon, and I can simply set upscaling to off if I want it to simply pass the signal through untouched.

 

[bmninada]

This is great. What I would need is a good BR player which can do most of the codecs. This way am thinking of sending over everything to receiver ; which then does a pass-through to TV and speakers (analog). In reality then I should not need any of today's fancy receiver but can very well use a receiver which has basic features like 3+ HDMI v1.3a inputs, pre-amp outputs, Zone-II support and simplistic set of analog INPUT connections but instead provides superb audio characteristics like S/N ratios, freq. response, total power, THD, etc. The money saved can be instead used to purchase a terrific BR player instead!