Help me pick please (denon 3805/ yammy rxv2500/ hk 635)

[DolbyDooby]

Ok- looking for some help here... I want a new receiver with a cap up to about $1000. I am very interested in the Denon 3805, but have also heard good things about the Yammy rxv2500 and harman/kardon AVR635.

One thing that confuses me is how harman rates their output power. I guess they concentrate on current flow; however, I don't know if they will truly provide the loudness I enjoy. Any help on this comparison would be cool too (possibly how each receivers currents compare to one another).

So... which door will it be folks - 1,2, or 3? Thanks!


Also, if this helps - I have a JBL speaker system -

Fronts: JBL S412PII - http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail_asia.asp?ProdId=S412PII

Center: JBL S Center - http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.asp?ProdId=S-CENTER&SerId=STU

Rears: JBL S38II - http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail_asia.asp?ProdId=S38II

Sub: JBL S120PII - http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.asp?ProdId=S120PII

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

If you have a cap of $1000, you can look elsewhere for a little higher end gear. The receivers you've chosen can be had for quite a bit less. The Denon is going for mid $800's new, the Yamaha is around the mid $600 area, and the HK is mid $700's. All are very good choices. Check the receivers on ebay going from highest to lowest price, and you may find something in the $900 - $1000 range that blows you (and the above) away. Of the ones listed above, the Yamaha is probably the best bang for the buck if you are not looking for internal bi-ampibility. If you are, go for the Denon. All of the HK's have excellent power supplies - in all their models. The 2500 and 3805 have very large power supplies - something their little brothers don't. Some find the remote of the 3805 a major drawback. Others think the Yamaha's are a bit bright. Some say the HK's have warranty issues and sound too "soft." The one way to dispell some of these traits are to demo them yourself. Find out which sound best with JBL's, and which are not user friendly to you. You are on the right track, but may be able to get so much more for your dollar if you shop wisely.

 

[av-man]

drop the HK, then flip a coin between denon and yamaha. Either way you'll be tickled.

 

[Doug917]

I like Denon better for music and Yamaha really brings the movies to life. HK only if it were the cheapest and you had a good reason for it.

 

[nm2285]

If you were after any other models (below those you;re considering), i'd say HK definately. However, with these models, i think yamaha and denon catch up a bit mostly due to their improved power supplies. Listen to them yourself and pick the one that works best with your speakers and has the feature set you want.

Harman rates their power while all channels are driven (aka power to each speaker when all 5 are driven) whereas Denon and Yamaha do not.

Check out NAD if you're not worried about features as much as sound quality.

 

[dm_4u]

I will agree with Buckeyefan 1...

If you have $1000 to spend...go for the Yammy RX-V4600 because it blows the others away...

http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/YamahaRXV4600.php

 

[nav]

On a similar topic (not to hijack the thread entirely, I hope!), how cheap do you think a brick-and-mortar retailer would discount a RX-V2500 for a moderately frequent customer (me )? Their sticker price is $1000 ($999.95, whatever). Seeing how cheap they go for online (the cheapest A-Stock I've found online from a retailer is $650), I hardly think that's a great price (not to mention sales tax). I've never asked them for a discount before (because the prices were decent), but they have offered me moderate discounts previously (7% on one ~$750 sale, 10% on another ~$700 sale, nothing on the other sales). So, I don't think I've picked on them too badly discount-wise.

For that matter, how cheap could one reasonably expect to get an A-Stock AVR-3805, out of curiousity?

I'm somewhat concerned with getting a warranty, which is why I'd rather not go the online route (all the reasonably prices places don't follow the advertised price policy, so they're not authorized dealers, so no warranty). Or, do I have very good odds a RX-V2500 will either fail right away (30 days or less) or last longer than the warranty anyway?

And that reminds me, something the original poster may want to consider, as far as I can tell, Harman Kardon doesn't frown upon cheap online retailers by stealing your warranty. Please correct me if I'm wrong. What the warranty is worth is another matter. But H/K gets less press than the Yamaha and Denon systems, so I don't know how it compares otherwise...

 

[T2T]

Nav,

Depends on the store. Shoot for 10% off the receiver. You should get that amount. If you're brave, go for 15 - 18%.

 

[avliner]

[QUOTE
And that reminds me, something the original poster may want to consider, as far as I can tell, Harman Kardon doesn't frown upon cheap online retailers by stealing your warranty. Please correct me if I'm wrong. What the warranty is worth is another matter. But H/K gets less press than the Yamaha and Denon systems, so I don't know how it compares otherwise...[/QUOTE]

You're rising up something really interesting. By the legal point of view,the question is:

if I'm buying a box-sealed gear from, let's say, Denon or Yamaha, thru the ebay (A-stock, etc.,), how can they deny the warranty just like that?

Just wondering that, because it doesn't sound "legal" anyway.
Ok, you're buying from an unauthorized dealer (because you just got a much better price), but it still doesn't seem to be fair that Denon or whoever else print on their catalogues or web pages that purchases from unauthorized dealers will void the warranty terms.

As mentioned above, it seems that HK does not follow that policy and that sounds to be the right and the legal way, in my opinion.

Furthermore, this can work as a very strong marketing tool, as they're just saying: I don't care from whom you're buying, I'll honor the warranty!
That could be the difference - for so many people - to grab a HK rather than Denon or Yamaha. If I was an ebay seller, I would adopt that policy myself, as an extra tool, in order to increase my sales profile.

In other hand, if you buy "online" from an authorized dealer, you're fully covered. I understand the dealer's side; they just want to be covered somehow, as they can never compete with ebay prices, as we all know.
Bottom line is quite simple: market protection (authorized dealers are fighting for their cause and there's nothing wrong with that).

We're all living in a free market and as far as I'm concerned, the ebay business are not doing any illegal activities at all.

Just highlighting that all my AV gears have been always purchased thru authorized dealers.


Regards.
Avliner

 

[Doug917]

I got my 2500 for $759 from my local Ultimate Electronics. I also bought a pair of Klipsch RF-25s at the time which they also gave me 20% off of. If you frequent the store and buy from them they should be able to do at least 10-15%. If not, let them know you have an interest at a certain percentage off and you would imediately purchase the receiver at that markdown and walk out if you have to. The manager may call you back in and give you the discount.

 

[newfmp3]

I don't know what the rules are here for posting dealers, but I am having troubles finding a canadian dealer for Denon. I'm looking at the 3805 to power my 4 ohm m-80's. I'm guessing the 4600 yammie will suck at 4 ohms like most of the yammie products seem to apparantly.

my local denon rep wants to charge me almost 1900 Canadian! We also have 15% taxes. AND, I can't try it first. It has to be ordered , and paid for before I even hear it. Ummmmm, no chance in heck I'm doing that.

Help me not get screwed?

I want to buy NEW from a authorized dealer.

 

[PENG]

In Toronto you should be able to get one for under C$1,700 including taxes.

 

[nav]

I got my 2500 for $759 from my local Ultimate Electronics. I also bought a pair of Klipsch RF-25s at the time which they also gave me 20% off of. If you frequent the store and buy from them they should be able to do at least 10-15%. If not, let them know you have an interest at a certain percentage off and you would imediately purchase the receiver at that markdown and walk out if you have to. The manager may call you back in and give you the discount.

Excellent. Thanks Doug and T2T. Even though I'm kind-of in sales, it's not retail and I'm the self professed "worst salesman" (I'm way too honest and up front, lucky for me I'm not only a salesman), so I have no reference points for what to expect to acheive from haggling in a retail store .

 

[BJP]

I don't know what the rules are here for posting dealers, but I am having troubles finding a canadian dealer for Denon. I'm looking at the 3805 to power my 4 ohm m-80's. I'm guessing the 4600 yammie will suck at 4 ohms like most of the yammie products seem to apparantly.

my local denon rep wants to charge me almost 1900 Canadian! We also have 15% taxes. AND, I can't try it first. It has to be ordered , and paid for before I even hear it. Ummmmm, no chance in heck I'm doing that.

Help me not get screwed?

I want to buy NEW from a authorized dealer.

$1712.21 taxes included at The Power Station

 

[Takeereasy]

Newfmp3, it would help to know what part of Canada you are in. If it's BC then us giving you Toronto prices won't help. You should start a new thread to ask this question too, that way you will get more responses tailored to your specific needs. I've got a shop suggestion, but again it's only any good to you if you are in the GTA.

 

[Paulvader]

I paid $1250 taxes in for my 2500 in Toronto. It's funny too because I went to check out the price twice and the 1st time the salesman said $1269. The second time I went in I joked "$1200, right?"...he said, "I think we said $1250"...so I was happy with that.

 

[batman]

Alright, before this thread gets hijacked any further....

Dooby, I hope this helps.

First you need to Identify what it is specifically you want from the new reciever. i.e. brute force, features, sound quality, etc.

If brute force is what you are after you might consider a HK AVR 7300. These are going for under $1000 (US) on ebay. They are remanufactured, but carry the full HK warranty. Plus, they actually upgrade video signals with the Faroudja chip, digitally. (not simply convert as virtually everyone else does) This is a SERIOUS feature. I also personally like the bass management HK offers. You can change/select the crossover frequency for the low frequency signals for each channel. (center, L&R, surround, etc.) HK calls it triple bass mgmt. (more on this later) However, as good as the HKs look, there may be some concern about their quality, which I can attest to firsthand. I started out with an AVR 230 in November '04. It was a floor model. ($379 US) I got it home and hooked it up, only to discover one of the speaker terminals was not working. I took it back the next day, and it turned out to be the last one in stock. So they upgrade me to an AVR 235. Needless to say I was elated. It wasn't until 4 months later when I upgraded from satellites to what you see below in my signature, that I discovered the the tone controls/balance control didn't work,and probably never had. On top of that, this couldn't be fixed locally by an authorized repair center, it had to be sent back to the factory. Irregardless, as soon as I hooked up the power hungry RTI 12's, it was immediately apparent that the AVR 235 was WAY underpowered (by no fault of its own, it wasn't designed to run speakers like this.)

After MANY MANY hours of research I decided that a Denon 3805 was the way to go. I got one locally for under $1000. As soon as I hooked it up, the increase in sound quality was readily apparent. However, over the next couple of weeks as I tweaked and re-tweaked the settings of my 3805, it became apparent that it wasn't as versatile as the HK. That, coupled with the fact that I now knew I would have to buy a separate power amp to truly bring the RTI 12's to life, led me to the conclusion that the 3805 was not the answer for me. So I returned the 3805.

I am currently in the market for a new reciever to use as a pre/pro, and had decided upon the yamaha rx-v2500 because of it's low sound floor, AND features, but was still toying with the Idea of an AVR 7300 (incredible features and power, but perhaps sacraficing a bit of sound quality) And wouldn't ya know it as soon as I decided to go with the 2500, I learned about the new yamaha rx-v4600 which, with the upgrades in the power supply and pre-outs seems an even better choice for me than the 2500. Plus it sports a THX ultra 2 certification (Which doesn't mean @#$%, but most of my friends (and wife) don't know that, which means I can look even cooler, to them at least!!)

Dooby, hopefully I have ranted about SOMETHING in here that helps you make your decision, and will influence others to share their experiences as well.

 

[batman]

Also, Why does your center channel not match the rest of your speakers??
By looking at the specs, seems like a step down, and this is the one area you shoudn't compromise in a HT set-up.