Help me decide on new amp

[biswa002]

Looking at Emotiva XPR 5 vs Rotel 1585 for mostly HT, some music. Preamp Yamaha 3010 pushing Paradigm Studio 60 fronts, B and W HTM2D center, and B and W CM5 rears in a medium sized room. Any suggestions?

 

[ImcLoud]

the outlaw 7500 is on sale for $1500...

I don't see the point in big power to your surround speakers, I bought an xpa5 and figured it out later, plus I use a pro with no amp built in so the 5x200 was cheaper than a 3x200 and smaller amp for the surrounds combined... If you are using an avr get a xpa3 and save your self some money, or a triple stack of the outlaw 2200 mono blocks...

 

[3db]

Looking at Emotiva XPR 5 vs Rotel 1585 for mostly HT, some music. Preamp Yamaha 3010 pushing Paradigm Studio 60 fronts, B and W HTM2D center, and B and W CM5 rears in a medium sized room. Any suggestions?

I'm curious as to why you're looking for external amplification. The amp on the RX-A3010 is a very capable amp and bested an Emotiva power amp in 2 channel power delivery at full bandwidth. Look for the RXA3000 review here
at Audioholics.

 

[biswa002]

For some reason the Yamaha compresses loud scenes for HT. I've checked the settings to ensure its in full dynamic mode. In comparison the Rotel was just a beast at various volume levels. I wonder if the Emotiva XPR5 is better?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would get an ATI amp or one of their OEM (Outlaw, Mark Levinson, Lexicon, JBL Synthesis, Cary Audio, Theta Digital, B&K).

The ATI 200WPC & 300WPC do an excellent job driving the Revel Salon2 & B&W 802D2. So they will probably do a great job powering your Paradigm.

Heck, both Irvrobinson and I have used our ATI 60WPC (yes, 60 watts) amps to drive our Salon2s without any problems.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

the outlaw 7500 is on sale for $1500...

+ 1

200 watts x 5 FULLY BALANCED channels, made in the USA.

Outlaw Model 7500 (AT2005) per Home Theater Magazine: 342 WPC x 2 CH 8 ohms/ 493 WPC x 2 CH 4 ohms/ 301 WPC x 5CH 8 ohms @ 1% THD.

 

[biswa002]

Awesome thanks

 

[GIEGAR]

I'm curious as to why you're looking for external amplification. The amp on the RX-A3010 is a very capable amp and bested an Emotiva power amp in 2 channel power delivery at full bandwidth. Look for the RXA3000 review here
at Audioholics.

I'm curious too. The Yamaha handily exceeded it's 140WPC continuous power rating and on the CEA-2006 burst/dynamic test, put over 150WPC into 8Ω on 7 channels simultaneously. I don't think a lack of power is the issue. Bis, if you let us know your max volume preference (say in relative dB scale), your approx. listening distance to the front speakers and whether you cross over to subs or not, we can have a guestimate at how much power you're calling on from the amps. I'd be quite surprised if it's anywhere close to what the Yamaha is capable of.

For some reason the Yamaha compresses loud scenes for HT. I've checked the settings to ensure its in full dynamic mode. In comparison the Rotel was just a beast at various volume levels. I wonder if the Emotiva XPR5 is better?

How do you know it's the Yamaha compressing? (Power) compression is a behaviour exhibited by speakers as they near the limits of their capability. Bis, if you're looking for an improvement in sound quality, I honestly think you're looking in the wrong place. My first recommendation is to get a matching centre channel for the Studio 60's. Reading between the lines to guess your volume preference, the big fella Studio CC-690 is probably the one for you.

You don't mention subs. Are you running a sub or two?

 

[herbu]

I don't see the point in big power to your surround speakers, I bought an xpa5 and figured it out later

Ditto. I also got an XPA5, in spite of recommendations to get the XPA3, because it was bigger, cooler, and in stock. The XPA3 had a backlog of orders. I finally admitted to myself and this forum, (but not to my wife), that the XPA3 would have been more than adequate. Now I have 200wpc to my L/R surrounds. Dogs barking, doorbells ringing and background crowd noises sound great! (That's me being sarcastic. The surrounds get so little sound, 200wpc is far from necessary.) The AVR has plenty of juice for the surrounds.

Plus now I have an AVR that provides 125wpc X 7 channels, driving only my rear surrounds. They get even less than the L/R surrounds.

So for the cool factor and bragging rights, go for the gusto. I'm not disappointed with mine. It's not bad. No harm, no foul. I've just come to realize it wasn't necessary.

 

[herbu]

Point of clarification. I'm not saying don't get a 5-channel amp. The difference between the XPA3 & XPA5 is $200. For $200 I never have to read about these folks with all these hotrod amps, and wonder if I should have gotten the 5 instead of the 3. I suspect one thing ImLoud and I have in common is a bit of a stubborn streak. If we had started w/ a 3-channel amp, I also suspect each of us would have wondered if we should have done the 5x. And maybe, eventually, gotten one to see for ourselves.

For $200 I never have to wonder if more power or more channels would make my system sound better. So regardless of recommendations you read, if $200 is no big deal for you, it is cheap proof and peace of mind.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Guys, a lot of times it is not about real physical needs, but rather about intangible emotional needs.

How can you fault a guy for wanting some high-end amps?

 

[3db]

How can you fault a guy for wanting some high-end amps?

Not faulting anyone. Just looking at it logically. As far as I'm concerned, Audioholics has demonstrated that the RX-A30xx series has robust output capabilities besting Emotiva's 2 channel capabilities at full bandwidth. The RX30xx are high end amps wrapped in an AVR chassis.

 

[PENG]

Ditto. I also got an XPA5, in spite of recommendations to get the XPA3, because it was bigger, cooler, and in stock. The XPA3 had a backlog of orders. I finally admitted to myself and this forum, (but not to my wife), that the XPA3 would have been more than adequate. Now I have 200wpc to my L/R surrounds. Dogs barking, doorbells ringing and background crowd noises sound great! (That's me being sarcastic. The surrounds get so little sound, 200wpc is far from necessary.) The AVR has plenty of juice for the surrounds.

Plus now I have an AVR that provides 125wpc X 7 channels, driving only my rear surrounds. They get even less than the L/R surrounds.

So for the cool factor and bragging rights, go for the gusto. I'm not disappointed with mine. It's not bad. No harm, no foul. I've just come to realize it wasn't necessary.

For bragging rights I would go for the XPA-2. It's 1200 VA transformer, same size as that used in Bryston 4B SST2 and Parasound Halo A21, and only has two mouths to feed. His Yamaha should have no trouble pushing the center and surrounds to their limits. The XPA-5 or even the -3 would hardly make a noticeable difference even during the dynamic peak moments. You probably should sell the 5 to the OP, get the 2 (actually get the one above the XPA-2) and let your AVR take care of the other speakers.

 

[biswa002]

I typically listen to movies around -35 on the Yamaha. The speakers are roughly 10 feet from the listeners. I have had to increase the gain on each channel to appreciate detail. My subs are Hsu ULS-15 and Martin Logan Abyss 12 inch. I auditioned the Rotel 1585 and the detail was amazing. For about the same price, the Outlaw 7900 seems like a great deal considering the power output (and sale that ends 7/31). My center is formidable B and W diamond series but I feel the yamaha cannot provide the detail and clarity that my speakers are capable of.

 

[M Code]

Go with an ATi amplifier, more $ but much higher build quality than the China built Emotiva..

Just my $0.03...

 

[biswa002]

Yeah I'm leaning towards Outlaw 7900.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah I'm leaning towards Outlaw 7900.

Wow. The 7900 is $2700 shipped. The equivalent ATI AT3007 is $6K MSRP, $4K b-stock.

What did they do to reduce the price like that?

 

[PENG]

Wow. The 7900 is $2700 shipped. The equivalent ATI AT3007 is $6K MSRP, $4K b-stock.

What at did they do to reduce the price like that?

Is it possible that ATI finally set up shops in China to manufacture amps for OEMs? It isn't that hard to do as there are so many electronic manufacturing facilities there.

 

[3db]

I typically listen to movies around -35 on the Yamaha. The speakers are roughly 10 feet from the listeners. I have had to increase the gain on each channel to appreciate detail. My subs are Hsu ULS-15 and Martin Logan Abyss 12 inch. I auditioned the Rotel 1585 and the detail was amazing. For about the same price, the Outlaw 7900 seems like a great deal considering the power output (and sale that ends 7/31). My center is formidable B and W diamond series but I feel the yamaha cannot provide the detail and clarity that my speakers are capable of.

Did you audition the Rotel using your speakers and in your listening environment? Were RC facilities employed? Were the output levels matched? Its very difficult to accurately compare electronics when using different speakers in a different acoustic environment and output levels aren't matched. Auditory memory is poor at best and as Floyd Toole demonstrated and its accuracy is fleetingly short, minutes at best. A blind listening test where someone is toggling between the Yamaha and the Rotel is the only accurate way of assessing this properly.

 

[herbu]

You probably should sell the 5 to the OP, get the 2 (actually get the one above the XPA-2) and let your AVR take care of the other speakers.

What a great idea!!! Even better, since I'm running 7.2, use the XPA5 for my center and 4 surrounds, and get an ATI AT6002 for my L/R. An extra 100w would really make my fronts stand out, and just imagine how fantastic my rear surround KEF eggs would sound w/ 200w each! Sign me up!!!

I typically listen to movies around -35 on the Yamaha

I'm thinking that seems like a pretty low volume. Can you comfortably talk/listen to a person next to you during a movie action sequence?
With my XPA5, and my AVR volume at -10, I cannot. With the volume at -35, conversation in the room is easy.
I'm guessing you have a lot of unused power already. I'm not sure 10w from your Yamaha is going to sound any different than 10w from a separate amp.