Help me choose a receiver

[Borg]

<font color='#000000'>Hello!
I'm gradually building my home theater and my next step is to upgrade my 10+ yr old Onkyo TX-SV717pro.  I've just about completed my front projection system and am now researching receivers.  I have about $700 to spend on one.
Here are my speakers that I plan on keeping for now:
Front - Cerwin Vega MX250's, 4ohm, 250watt, 107db
Center - cerwin vega HT-CTR, 4ohm (not sure of wattage or sensitivity...I could look it up if you need this info to help me out)
Rear - booze 151's, 4ohm, 40 watts
Sub - Velodyne CT80

My room dimensions:  18x15 (one side open to kitchen...I know, not ideal but hey...)

Here are the receivers I'm considering with street prices within my range:

Sony DA4ES
Onkyo 797
H/K 525 (when it comes out)
Denon AVR-3802
Pioneer elite 43tx (more than I wanted to pay...unless I can find it under $700)

I, like everyone else probably, would like to get the most quality &quot;future proof&quot; receiver for the money.  I think these all have 7.1 inputs (not sure about the 43tx...no one seems to be able to find much info on this) and can drive 7 channels.  I'm starting to shy away from the DA4ES now with what I've read on this forum.....I'm very interested to see the whole review when it comes out.

I've done a lot of research and greatly appreciate your opinions/recommendations on what I've got thus far.  Also, if I missed a good one please let me know!

Thanks in advance!</font>

 

[steve]

<font color='#000000'>Greetings Borg,

From your budget of $700, you have a good list to start with. &nbsp;I do not have time to dive into a detailed description of each unit now, but I can tell you that the Sony 4ES is a really nice receiver for the money, but I have some reserve about buying it. &nbsp;My detailed article (promised and pending) will tell you about this unit, but real quick.

1) &nbsp;The user interface - Remote Control - is not very user friendly. &nbsp;Many, much needed functions, are not easily accessible when needed via remote.

2) &nbsp;Sony replaced conventional optical connections on the back panel, with &quot;easy access&quot; trap door connections. &nbsp;Although their easy to use, ie you just fit the fiber connection in and the trap door opens, it is not reliable. &nbsp;The trap door is required for friction to hold on the cable. &nbsp;Well, if your like me, and disconnect/connect your cable a few times, you stand the risk of breaking the trap door and there goes that connection.

3) &nbsp;I'm not that impressed with it's DSP capabilities.

My recommendation for now is to hunt down a Sony STR-DA5ES if you can find it. &nbsp;Although it is 6.1 and not 7.1, it is considerably better than the 4ES, and who cares about the extra rear center channel? &nbsp;There is no need for two, mono channel, center rears. &nbsp;One is even debatable, but if you must have it, it's OK.

If you can't find a 5ES, then look more into the Yamaha and the Denon.

If you need more info, let me know.

Happy listening.

Steve</font>

 

[Audioholics]

<font color='#000000'>That would be a used Yamaha RX-V3000 or a new RX-V2200 or 1200 from the price points... the 2200 and 1200 having the newest surround sound formats.

And I personally love Yamaha's sound fields.</font>

 

[Borg]

<font color='#000000'>Great, thanks guys!
I will add Yamaha to my research list. &nbsp;
As far as the Denon goes, in your opinion, is it worth the wait for the 3803? &nbsp;

Also, is it just me or does this forum not like &quot;booze&quot; speakers...I typed in booze in my original post....even tried editing it twice, and every time it came out &quot;booze.&quot; &nbsp;Clever...</font>

 

[Borg]

<font color='#000000'>There it goes again....shoulda known
HA

</font>

 

[Tai]

<font color='#000000'>Before I bit the bullet to go a head with my STR-VA555es = DA5es, I placed an order for Yamaha RX V1200. I was never concern about the power rating on these receivers or the features they offered. The main thing I was looking at was the built quality, the RX 1200 was quite good at 15kgs. After I listened to it a few times I found the Yamama was a bit bright and thin for 2 channel music. On the other hand I was very impress with the HT department.

Because my house is tiled it make the music really hard to enjoy at high volume. Went back to the dealer, exchange it for the VA555es (20 kgs). The yammie cost me $1400 Aus. I had to pay an extra $1100 the Sony, which I think was worth it due the built quality and the finish product.

The Sony was very flexible, excellent bass management, and EQ. I try to tweek the top end a bit so that music wont be too lively at high volume.

I'm not saying that Sony is superior than Yamaha, its just because of the environment that I live in, I was better off with the Sony. If you have a well damped place you may wanna try Yamaha.

P.S I'm still dreaming of RX Z1......      

 

 

</font>

 

[steve]

<font color='#000000'>Keep in mind what I've mentioned earlier. &nbsp;The STR-DA5ES is an entirely different receiver than the STR-DA4ES and STR-DA7ES. &nbsp;I agree that the 5ES is awesome, but I would debate about the 4 and 7.

If you can find a 5ES on the internet, buy it. &nbsp;I recommend you check with www.oade.com. &nbsp;You won't find it on their site, but give Jim Oade a call and see if he can hunt one down for you.

Don't forget, let him know that Audioholics sent you there.

Cheers</font>

 

[Borg]

<font color='#000000'>Steve,
Is the DA555ES essentially the same receiver as the DA5ES?</font>

 

[steve]

<font color='#000000'>Sorry man, I can't answer that off top. &nbsp;I have not spent any time trying to do comps on over seas models and US models. &nbsp;

Yamaha does this with model numbers too. &nbsp;For example, they have different model numbers for the receivers they sell at &quot;Best&quot; Buy then the ones they sell at Circuit Chity, or un-Sound Advice. &nbsp;

This very point, may become a topic for another upcoming review

Stevie D</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>No, DA555ES is a three year old model, does not compare at all with DA5ES.

Do a search on Google and you'll see.

Regards,
Norberth</font>

 

[RLA]

<font color='#000000'>This one looks like it may be worth waiting a few more weeks for

AVR-3803 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
Dolby Digital Surround EX, Dolby Pro Logic II &amp; DTS ES Discrete 7.1 A/V Receiver • Dolby Digital Surround EX, Pro Logic II decoding with Cinema and Music Modes • DTS Extended Surround Discrete 6.1 decoding • DTS Extended Surround Matrix 6.1 decoding • DTS Neo:6 Cinema &amp; Music Surround decoding • DTS ES 96/24 5.1 decoding for DVD Video &nbsp;• New DDSC-Digital featuring Analog Devices Melody 100 (HammerHead SHARC) 32 bit floating point DSP processor • 7 Channels equal power amplifier section • 110 watts per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, &lt;.05%THD) • 150 watts per channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, &lt;.7%THD) • 16 Burr-Brown PCM-1791 24 bit, 192 kHz high resolution DACs on all eight channels, in differential configuration • Real 24 bit, 96 kHz Digital Interface Receiver • 24 bit, 192 kHz A/D conversion (Burr-Brown PCM-1804) on all analog inputs • Pure Audio mode, features 4 DACs per audio channel in dual-differential configuration • ALPHA 24 Processing (AL24) in Stereo/Direct/Pure Direct modes (left/right channels) • Adjustable High and Low Pass Crossover (40/60/80/100/120Hz) • 2 Assignable component video inputs (100MHz), with On-Screen Display • Video Conversion of Composite to S-Video and/or to Component, with on-screen display • 7 sets composite and &quot;S&quot; video inputs • 7.1 external wide bandwidth (100 kHz) input for future multi-channel formats (such as DVD-Audio) • 5/7 Channel Stereo • Digitally regulated volume control with .5dB increment adjustments and step range of -80 to +15 • Audio Delay adjustment to match audio signals with video signals(0-200ms) • Personal Memory Plus • 7 assignable digital inputs (5 Optical, 2 Coaxial) • 2 Optical digital outputs • 9 analog inputs including built-in AM/FM tuner • Multi-Zone 1 stereo pre-amp level audio outputs, fixed or variable level • Multi-Zone 1 Composite Video output • Power Amplifier Assign function, lets you assign 2 of the 7 amp channels to drive second zone speakers directly • LCD dot-matrix programmable/learning remote features TV, VCR, DVD codes from other manufacturers with full backlighting • Serial Port for Third Party Control Systems • Remote I/O ports • Assignable +12v trigger • Dimensions: 17.1&quot;w x 6.7&quot;h x 16.4&quot;d • SRP $1199 • Available at Dealers in LATE OCTOBER/EARLY NOVEMBER '02
http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog....jpg&c=2

http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog....jpg&c=2</font>

 

[Borg]

<font color='#000000'>That 3803 looks real nice!!
However, I would bet that it would be a long while before I would be able to get it for $700. &nbsp;Unless of course you guys might know of a place.....

</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>What do people think about the Pioneer 43TX or 45TX as compared to the Sony 5ES or Denon?

I had narrowed my choices to the 45TX and 4ES but not I am shying away from the 4ES.</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Borg,
Hi!

I have recently bought a STR-DA4ES and its a really great receiver, I can not for the life of me figure out why so many people are so easily swayed!!!

Have YOU listened to a 4ES??? Do you really think you will be able to hear any real differences??

The build quality is great, its massive and provides enough power to make your ears sore!!

I have lots of mega buck systems in the past 20 yrs, and this new ES line is good stuff...

I have spent $3K on receivers in the past, and it does not sound any better that this!

Their are other great pieces of equipment out there besides the 4ES, its just that when someone compares a 4ES (I got for $641) with something that cost 2-3 times more!! you would expect some differrences, but what are they and what do they really mean to you!!

To compare this with a top end SONY receiver and to have someone tell me because one weighs a few pounds more than the other does that this is a significant fact that should influence my buying decision, I think not!

I have sonic boat anchors from 15 yrs ago, still running well, that weigh lots more and still dont sound that much better or worse!

Good luck in your search, I am now going back to add some damping material to this poor old 4ES receiver before its too late....

Alex
(smiling!)</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Alex,

I'm sure the sound a the receiver is dependant upon the speakers used when listening. &nbsp;You may not hear any difference in performance if your using booze or speakers that have horns in place of real tweaters, for example.

If information and facts about build quality don't make a difference, then everyone should just buy a clock radio and connect it to some popular cubes.

That too, will likely 'sound the same' in your environment.

Smiling along with your smile

Vin-Man</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Life according to Alex,

This crap about how BAD the Hundai compared to a Nissan Maxima lets say, is really making me sick….

I have a Hundai and it works really, really swell &nbsp;: ) !!! &nbsp;It’s head and shoulders over a lot of the $5,000 junk that is out there.

It’s roomy at high speeds and is built very well in comparison to lots of other stuff out there…

Go drive one for yourself and make intelligent decisions.

The stuff about the engine, exhaust system, seats, build quality and stuff makes me really smile!!! &nbsp;Like there is really going to be a difference in how it drives……HOGWASH.

The ‘lower’ horsepower because of a smaller engine, again…very doubtful to my driving skills…especially if you only run gas. &nbsp;When I drive my Hundai, plenty of bugs hit my windshield, just as many as if I were in a Maxima.

Good luck in your search, just don’t be swayed by the ‘drivers’ that drive a Nissan Maxima…if you really like the car because of the driving quality, the way it responds when you step on the gas, and the seats…go for it…..</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Vin...

I am going to market a hi-fi new clock radio made with a cement chassis, with little or no synthetic damping.

It will weigh 87 pounds and it will operate off of 6 D cell batteries. (not included).

I will put a DENON label on it, or a SONY 5ES label on sell it for $999.

No external speakers to 'color' the sound.

Note: For those really discriminating customers they will have a choice of capacitors and resistors, the high end 'bando' transformer upgrade will be extra...

Alex
(smilng a lot)...

</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Alex,

You can't do that as B-O-S-E has already done it with their Wave Radio. &nbsp;It doesn't weight 87-lbs, but people are buying it for $499. &nbsp;I bet you would contest that it sounds the same as a Processor or Receiver too.

Ifyour happy with the 4ES more power to ya. &nbsp;I couldn't stomach using the remote, so I returned it and I am looking at the Denon.

Vin</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>I have a Yamaha DSPA-3090,Sony STRDV444ES,STRDA5ES(and a very understanding wife).I just replaced the 5ES in the maim HT room with Rotel separates(RSP-1066,RB-1080,RMB-1075).I like my Sonys but WOW the Rotel gear is awesome.If only the Rotel had the user interface that the Sony did,or the Sony had the sound quality of the Rotel.The Sony receivers are great for the price but no match for separates in two channel or Home Theater.Start saving it's worth the extra cash!!!</font>

 

[Guest]

<font color='#000000'>Vin

Cool. I &nbsp;really like the 4es...Its fairly easy for me to use and understand...

I have no real ax to grind about any of the good stuff out there, but I really believe in the double blind test....not all this 'subjective, emotional carp...its your decision, liek ya said, more power too ya...

I have had many different type of stuff, from Heathkits, to Denon, to NAD, to Halfler, Macintosh, Marantz, Phase Linear, and on and on and on over the last 30 yrs (I'm 53)...and most of was decent stuff, all had its plus &amp; minus's...

I use to hide my stuff and have people try to figure out what speakes were behind the curtins! What an interesting , ego busting thing this was...lots of smiles...for me too!!

Once &nbsp;I get somethig set up and figure it out I then just leave it alone and start listening, and now watching too....and tend to forget about the 'stuff' and enjoy the media playing...

The best times are becoming part of the illusion and thinking how neat the 'band' is etc...

See ya around
Alex

</font>