Help in finding first Processer

[Pankake]

Looking at a several processer's over the last few years there is so much out there I don't know what to do. I have looked at the Monolith Htp-1 I already have there 9x amp that I have hooked up to my pre outs on Yamaha RX- 880 but I finally want to go with separate's after having nothing but AVR'S since the 90's. I also looked at Emotiva RMC-1-L also some of Anthem processers along with Yamaha but I want a Processer with XLR Outputs and something that is fully balanced and fully differential. Something that has no bug issues that is solid and that I would have no issues with for many years. Price point is around $4,000- $ 5,000.

 

[Movie2099]

Looking at a several processer's over the last few years there is so much out there I don't know what to do. I have looked at the Monolith Htp-1 I already have there 9x amp that I have hooked up to my pre outs on Yamaha RX- 880 but I finally want to go with separate's after having nothing but AVR'S since the 90's. I also looked at Emotiva RMC-1-L also some of Anthem processers along with Yamaha but I want a Processer with XLR Outputs and something that is fully balanced and fully differential. Something that has no bug issues that is solid and that I would have no issues with for many years. Price point is around $4,000- $ 5,000.

HTP-1 is probably going to be your best bet. Nobody can guarantee no bug issues. But I will say the HTP-1 has been out for well over a year now and Monoprice works to fix any issues relatively fast compared to others. It's probably the most stable one out there.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...but I want a Processer with XLR Outputs and something that is fully balanced and fully differential. Something that has no bug issues that is solid and that I would have no issues with for many years. Price point is around $4,000- $ 5,000.

The ONLY fully balanced AVP I know of is the DataSat pre-pros, which is confirmed by ATI/DataSat.

The Monoprice HTP-1 is not fully balanced. I am not sure about the upcoming ATI ATP-16.

I don't think the Anthem or other Computer-based AVPs are fully balanced either.

I highly doubt any pre-pros under $10K MSRP will be fully balanced.

As for bugs, especially if they add the NEW HDMI 2.1, there will be bugs. So it's going to take some time - probably 2 more years.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Some folks got burned by early models of Emotiva Processors.
I can't guarantee that Marantz AV8805A or AV7706 is either fully balanced or not, but you can't go wrong with their performance.
Some idea on Acram AV40:

Arcam AV40 AV Processor Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Arcam AV40 AV Processor. It was purchased by a member as "z-stock" and kindly loaned to me for testing. He said that unit arrived brand new with even the plastics undisturbed. I saw nothing in my testing that would indicate it being broken...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Pankake]

HTP-1 is probably going to be your best bet. Nobody can guarantee no bug issues. But I will say the HTP-1 has been out for well over a year now and Monoprice works to fix any issues relatively fast compared to others. It's probably the most stable one out there.

Ok Thank You so very much I really appreciate your Insight, that is the one that I was leaning towards any way.

 

[PENG]

Looking at a several processer's over the last few years there is so much out there I don't know what to do. I have looked at the Monolith Htp-1 I already have there 9x amp that I have hooked up to my pre outs on Yamaha RX- 880 but I finally want to go with separate's after having nothing but AVR'S since the 90's. I also looked at Emotiva RMC-1-L also some of Anthem processers along with Yamaha but I want a Processer with XLR Outputs and something that is fully balanced and fully differential. Something that has no bug issues that is solid and that I would have no issues with for many years. Price point is around $4,000- $ 5,000.

As ADTG said, it is highly doubtful that there are anything in the $4,000+$5,000 pre/pro that has differential connections from input to output. The only one that qualify to claim such topology is the now outdated Denon AVP, regardless of price, well, the $23,000 Datasat RS20i does claim "fully balance" but does that mean fully balance from input to output? Or just the DAC section, we don't know that for sure.

Even at the $23,000 price point, there is no 8K/HDMI2.1 support, ouch!

If you only need 11 to 13 channels, and must have XLR connections then I would just pick one from ASR's reviewed/measured list because then you can read about their "bugs", "fixes" and measurements.

The RMC-1 and the HTP-1 both measured good enough to be in the top 20 on the chart so you can just choose based on features, look, prices and perceived reliability.

Marantz AV8805A Review (AV Processor) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As ADTG said, it is highly doubtful that there are anything in the $4,000+$5,000 pre/pro that has differential connections from input to output. The only one that qualify to claim such topology is the now outdated Denon AVP, regardless of price, well, the $23,000 Datasat RS20i does claim "fully balance" but does that mean fully balance from input to output? Or just the DAC section, we don't know that for sure.

Even at the $23,000 price point, there is no 8K/HDMI2.1 support, ouch!

If you only need 11 to 13 channels, and must have XLR connections then I would just pick one from ASR's reviewed/measured list because then you can read about their "bugs", "fixes" and measurements.

The RMC-1 and the HTP-1 both measured good enough to be in the top 20 on the chart so you can just choose based on features, look, prices and perceived reliability.

Marantz AV8805A Review (AV Processor) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

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I mentioned this in other threads. I find it interesting that most of my clients who are looking at the $5000 AV8805A vs $4500 X8500HA (similar enough price ) are buying the X8500HA mainly because of the measurements from Amir, not because of the small difference in price.

Back a few years ago when many publications were still doing measurements (S&V, Stereophile, etc.), I would have NEVER seen anyone choosing an AVR over a pre-pro when both were similar in price range.

 

[PENG]

I mentioned this in other threads. I find it interesting that most of my clients who are looking at the $5000 AV8805A vs $4500 X8500HA (similar enough price ) are buying the X8500HA mainly because of the measurements from Amir, not because of the small difference in price.

Back a few years ago when many publications were still doing measurements (S&V, Stereophile, etc.), I would have NEVER seen anyone choosing an AVR over a pre-pro when both were similar in price range.

Right! I would also add that if someone has read enough bench test measurements from S&V, AH, HTHF, and now ASR (Amir) for AV preamp processors that have both balanced and unbalanced measured, they would even be more inclined to consider the X8500HA, MRX-1140, possible the newest Yamaha A8A and just use them as prepro. Yes, it looks like a waste of the internal amps of a flagship class AVR, but it is also nice to know all or any of the internal amps will be there if needed for any reason, and it is also nice to be able to take advantage of the typical deep discounts on the last year models when the new ones are out.

Tests after tests have shown clearly XLR offered no better results in THD+N when the interconnects are kept short, such as < 2 or even 3 meters. There only nice things about them are the "click" if neutrik connectors re used, and if used with power amps that offer the same gain to both XLR and RCA input, such as the new gen ATI amps and a few others.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Right! I would also add that if someone has read enough bench test measurements from S&V, AH, HTHF, and now ASR (Amir) for AV preamp processors that have both balanced and unbalanced measured, they would even be more inclined to consider the X8500HA, MRX-1140, possible the newest Yamaha A8A and just use them as prepro. Yes, it looks like a waste of the internal amps of a flagship class AVR, but it is also nice to know all or any of the internal amps will be there if needed for any reason, and it is also nice to be able to take advantage of the typical deep discounts on the last year models when the new ones are out.

Tests after tests have shown clearly XLR offered no better results in THD+N when the interconnects are kept short, such as < 2 or even 3 meters. There only nice things about them are the "click" if neutrik connectors re used, and if used with power amps that offer the same gain to both XLR and RCA input, such as the new gen ATI amps and a few others.

I think it is a lot easier for guys like us (who have owned separates and pre-pros most of our lives and been-there-done-it) to buy and recommend AVRs, especially when the AVRs (like X8500 and X6700) either measure better or equal to pre-pros that cost $15,000.

But for others who have NEVER owned separates pre-pros, it might be a little more difficult - mainly because they don't want to feel "left out".

It's kind of like a "bucket list" - things you gotta own before your time on earth is up, which is 100% understandable since many of us have owned separates and pre-pros most of our lives.

I used to own the "first ever" fully balanced fully differential from input to output pre-pro - the AVP-A1HDCI. It didn't sound any better. It's still just sitting there in my living room.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think if you're going to spend $5K for an AVP, you might want to get the latest greatest, which is currently HDMI 2.1.

And to reduce the risk of bugs, it might be a good idea to wait another year or two.

Who knows. Yamaha is still working on perfecting their flagship AVR - RX-A8A. Once they get the A8 perfected, they will move on to their next AVP - CX-A5300. And they would use all they know from the A8 and possibly add more channels and possibly even improve on the SINAD/THD+N. Never know. SINAD could be "109" and beat everything. Will it sound any better than the CX-A5200? Nope it won't sound better. But SINAD/THD+N will look better.

 

[Movie2099]

I think if you're going to spend $5K for an AVP, you might want to get the latest greatest, which is currently HDMI 2.1.

And to reduce the risk of bugs, it might be a good idea to wait another year or two.

Who knows. Yamaha is still working on perfecting their flagship AVR - RX-A8A. Once they get the A8 perfected, they will move on to their next AVP - CX-A5300. And they would use all they know from the A8 and possibly add more channels and possibly even improve on the SINAD/THD+N. Never know. SINAD could be "109" and beat everything. Will it sound any better than the CX-A5200? Nope it won't sound better. But SINAD/THD+N will look better.

I just want Yamaha to go all out on the next processor. Don't hold back. Throw everything at it and make it the best. Don't care if they double the price, just make it 10x better than Sound United's processors. Make SU up their game a ton. Also throw on a 10 year warranty.

 

[PENG]

I think if you're going to spend $5K for an AVP, you might want to get the latest greatest, which is currently HDMI 2.1.

And to reduce the risk of bugs, it might be a good idea to wait another year or two.

Who knows. Yamaha is still working on perfecting their flagship AVR - RX-A8A. Once they get the A8 perfected, they will move on to their next AVP - CX-A5300. And they would use all they know from the A8 and possibly add more channels and possibly even improve on the SINAD/THD+N. Never know. SINAD could be "109" and beat everything. Will it sound any better than the CX-A5200? Nope it won't sound better. But SINAD/THD+N will look better.

I wish I can talk to Yamaha's decision making team. If I could I would tell them to please replace that LSI (large scale integrated) AVR volume control chip with the MSI chips but use better ones than D+M's. D+M did that since their X3400H and SR6012/7012 and AV8805/7704 (not sure about the model year just before those I listed), and that's when they started getting good measurements from ASR and AH.

Dr. Rich of hometheaterhifi.com clearly pointed out those AVR LSI volume control chips were the real bottle neck (I would call them SINAD killers), not the DAC chips. He said that would make the/my Marantz AV8801 not much better than Yamaha's $300 AVR. Surely he exaggerated his points to catch D+M's attention, and D+M listened, while Yamaha for some reason never got the memo, or they didn't care because they know audibly speaking it would make no difference. True, but then why bother..............

Here's my favorite link again:

AVR - Audio Video Receiver - Build Quality: Part I - HomeTheaterHifi.com
He said:
"A key takeaway: circuit quality in the direct mode (stereo or 7.1) is almost always invariant to AVR prices in the range of $400 to $2,000. As examples, the $250 Yamaha RX-V367 and Marantz AV8801 ($3000) use the same Renesas LSI chip (R2A15220FP)."

The Yamaha CX-A5200 unfortunately still has the LSI volume control, though it (also the RX-A3080/3020) do have one that has slightly better spec that the one in the RX-V367 but just marginally.