Help Design my Media Room - $5000 Budget

[Palmettokid]

I've poured over many posts in this forum and have realized that there are many different ways to approach my project. If you've read my previous post you'll know that I will be building a house this year and need some advice on what equipment to buy and where to place the surround sound system in the family room.

Here are some particulars, see diagram attached for a clearer picture of our proposed seating locations:

This space will be used primarily for watching TV and we are planning on installing a large HD flat screen over the fireplace. Primary video source is HD cable. We do like to watch movies and on ocassion have friends over for movie night. The surround sound system will probably spend most of it's use with the TV. We would also like the system to supply some audio for other zones in the house or possibly just link to smaller stand alone systems in the other living areas. Speaker location and whether in-wall or stand mounted is up to you.

Budget for this project? I'd like to stay under $5000.00 for the surround system and it's components. Don't worry about the flatscreen or stand alone music systems. You can suggest options there if you'd like.

If you need more info just ask and I'll provide what I can. I hope you'll find this a chance to have your wish list become reality. Here is the room:

 

[ScottMayo]

I've poured over many posts in this forum and have realized that there are many different ways to approach my project. If you've read my previous post you'll know that I will be building a house this year and need some advice on what equipment to buy and where to place the surround sound system in the family room.

If those are windows on the "north" wall, the people in the chairs on the south side will be dealing with reflected glare in the evenings. A HT really wants to be in a room where windows can be completely blocked off at need.

The corridors in the "south" wall are going to make a mess of the room acoustics. Even just for movies, that can matter. Is it too late to redesign the room? You've got a good sized space there (a large room is a prerequsite to a really great HT), but the acoustics are going to be tough to work around. It will sound lopsided, and sometimes boomy.

You don't have a good place to put the center channel, with a fireplace right there, so you will probably end up with a phantom center, which means you need good main speakers and halfway decent electronics. I'd look at a Denon A/V player, and maybe VMPS RM-30/CDWG for the main speakers. Of course, that's a hunk of your $5k right there, but you can use pretty much anything you like for the surrounds/rear/sub speakers just to start. They just aren't that critical. (Well, a good sub is, but there's no point in buying a sub until you know how your room reacts to bass.) Speakers are always the most important component; it's better to buy 2 good speakers you can keep for years, and some throwaways for back and side channels, then to try to get 4-7 "okish" speakers, none of which you'll be really happy with down the road.

Your room is big enough for a projector and screen. The screen can be painted on a flat wall if you decide not to use the fireplace as the video point. I love mine - it's a real popcorn experience.

 

[Palmettokid]

Scott,

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately this is a stock plan from a tract builder and there is not much I can do with the layout. Except move the HT to another location but the best location is on the second floor and will be my wife's studio.

Yes, those are windows to the north but we are planning some kind of window treatment that will reduce most if not all of the light. To the south, it's an open floor plan and I know, now that it will cause me some problems. The fire place is an insert so there is room above the mantle for a wall speaker or a center speaker set on the mantle.

My initial thought was to use ceiling speakers in the room to help define/direct the sound field to the seating locations.

Another question I have is where to place the subwofer there's really no room on the "west" (fireplace wall) unless it's built into the walls....

 

[Kai]

A bit more info on how you want to use the 5k is also needed. Will that include acoustic treatments for the walls/windows? What portion towards speakers? What sort of hardware do you want to buy? A/V Receiver or seperates, DVD player...etc.

My suggestions are to place two surround speakers on the back wall, above the doorway tilted down to the seating area. Place the front speakers on the sides of the tv also tilted down towards the viewing area. Place the sub beneath the "media center", not built in. I presume you will be using the basic components...a/v receiver, cable/satellite box, dvd/cd player...that leaves plenty of room for the sub.
As an alternative you could place the front speakers on pedestals to the sides of the fireplace insert.
I would use a "phantom center channel" configuration because there is no good place to mount the cc except above the tv and that would be a bit too high though doable...needs to be tilted down as well.

Use either a heavy drapery to soften the windows and eliminate sound reflection and control lighting during tv viewing. You can also use a two layered drapery...front layer is the decorative, rear layer is a sound controlling fabric similar to what is used for wall treatments.

I am not overly impressed with the "in wall/ceiling" speakers, Paradigm, I have recently listened to. They were ok but that was it. Good for background music but not primary audio in my opinion.

Will the house be wired for sound? Is so creating zones using in wall/ceiling speakers throughout your house most easily achieveable and enjoyable. Now is the time to plan, prepare and execute such a system. Generally the electrician will be workable to a minor addition as running speaker wiring and installing wall/ceiling speakers for a price. Make sure to label everything wiring run exactly to save future aggravation.

Good luck and keep us informed.

 

[ScottMayo]

Scott,

My initial thought was to use ceiling speakers in the room to help define/direct the sound field to the seating locations.

Another question I have is where to place the subwofer there's really no room on the "west" (fireplace wall) unless it's built into the walls....

Never build a subwoofer in anywhere. You have to move a subwoofer around to find the best spot for it - if you fix it in place you might end up with a mess. Likewise, ceiling speakers just don't work for HT. You rarely want movie sounds coming down from on high.

Mostly it depends on what you want. For HT, the sound is not so very critical. Spend $4,000 on speakers and $1,000 on electronics and you'll get something more than good enough for movies. Put in fold-out doors over the open hallways and you'll get at least a little more control of the sonics of the space. (You don't want your bass echoing down those hallways. It will come back, and you won't like that). Throw in some RealTraps, and you'll be in decent shape.

But it mostly depends on what you're after. If you love the idea of in-wall speakers because they look cool, and you aren't vastly fussy about sonic quality, you can get ok results for well under $5k. It will never be awesome, but awesome costs more. If you someday hope to have full orchestra style concert music in that space (which you could), $5k is just the opening salvo, so to speak. In that case, don't start with in-walls or in-ceilings today. In-walls are forever.

 

[Palmettokid]

Thanks for the continued replys,

Here's what I'll be looking for with my $5000. An A/V receiver, DVD/CD player, and speakers. HD cable box and window treatments do not come out of this pot, just equipment.

Since we will probably be making the window treatments I'll be looking for more on the drapery suggestion of using sound control material to back the drapes.

I can understand the benefits of the phantom CC but what do you loose?

And yes whole house audio is in the plans either using the receiver as the source or adding a multi zone receiver.

The reason I'm gravitating toward the ceiling/wall setup is not for the cool factor but because there is really no good place to place standard speakers. I've had my small HT setup in various places with wires strung all over the place and thought that this is the best opportunity I'lll have to make the room look nice. Course as this project goes forward I can already see there will be compromises.

Scott, how can you tell where to wire for a sub if the room is not finished so you can test the sound? should I prewire jacks in several location around the room to allow different connections later?

Finally, my ears are not trained to pickup the small differences in music or sound, others in my house are more tuned to that. I'm not looking for the theater experience just want a good solid system that will add enjoyment to movies and HD TV.

 

[Kai]

Have you auditioned any speakers for your room? IMO there are good locations for speaker placement in your room for speakers without using ceiling/wall mounts.

Are you considering Amp/Tuner seperates or a A/V Receiver?

At this point you may want to go light on the DVD/CD player, money wise, and wait until the HD offerings firm up then buy of the new models.

Do you want 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 sound? Looks like 5.1 may be the most efficient use of speakers in the room.

A center channel can be used in your application but it needs to be angled down towards the listening seat.

$5000 is a lot to spend for the audio package you are describing...does your tv have hdmi? If so your system should include hdmi and at the budget would be standard fare.

You are limited to sub placement...basically under the media cabinet or on the right side of the wall.

 

[AVRat]

If you’re not adamantly opposed to on-wall plasma friendly speakers, then I would suggest something like the Def tech Mythos Six/Seven/Gem w/ SuperCube I/II system. You don’t have much room for a large sub. Right side of fireplace in front of bookshelves may be a decent position. http://www.definitivetech.com/loudspeakers/mythos/mythos_table.html

 

[Palmettokid]

As far as the types of equipment I'm after....

Receiver or seperate amp/tuner is not an issue. I've got a receiver now that has served me well but could just as easily go the amp/tuner route. Ease of use would be a consideration. If it's too envolved to setup to watch tv or a movie or to listen to music then it looses it value to us.

I've got an older 5.1 system but thought since I have the opportunity to start fresh I should at least prewire for the latest/greatest to prevent major rework later. I also thought because of the size of the space that 6.1 or 7.1 would be the better choice. Why do you think that 5.1 would be the most efficient system for this space and yes hdmi is on the list especially since I'l be adding a new TV at the same time as this equipment, Plasma or LCD yet to be determined.

I'm not adverse to plasma friendly speakers but my wife has seen a flat screen installation that has been framed to look like a painting and she wants to do the same thing. She also wants room on the mantle for display. So the TV goes even higher. Bookshelf speakers are acceptable.