Hello from Australia everyone!!

[BenjaminR]

My name is Ben and I'm from Western Australia.

This is my very first post and I'm really excited

I want to get back into some home theatre systems after many many years away from it.

B&W are my go-to.

Love everything about them.

I found these on my local Gumtree (Craigslist).

For the price......is this a good deal?

I apologise for the screenshots, but I can't load up the link onto this post.

Remember it's in AUD, not USD.

I'm really looking forward to hearing any feedback and perspectives.

Kindest regards Ben.

I

 

[Eppie]

Hard for someone outside of Australia to know the value of those. You can look for other listings on Ebay, Amazon Marketplace or https://www.aussieaudiomart.com/ and there is also hifishark.com which aggregates listings. HiFiShark shows two pairs of 603 S3 for around AUD$600 (one pair on Gumtree) for example.

Measuremets for the 603 S3 can be found here. Note that this is a 4 ohm speaker so be sure that whatever amp or receiver you use is capable of driving a 4 ohm load.

 

[BenjaminR]

Hard for someone outside of Australia to know the value of those. You can look for other listings on Ebay, Amazon Marketplace or https://www.aussieaudiomart.com/ and there is also hifishark.com which aggregates listings. HiFiShark shows two pairs of 603 S3 for around AUD$600 (one pair on Gumtree) for example.

Measuremets for the 603 S3 can be found here. Note that this is a 4 ohm speaker so be sure that whatever amp or receiver you use is capable of driving a 4 ohm load.

Thank you very much.

 

[3db]

Hi Ben and welcome to Audioholics. Smart move going used as I did the same route with most of my three systems except for the displays, two subs, and one 4K player. That being said, buying used also comes with perils brought to you by unscrupulous people selling off broken components. Is their anyway you can audition everything before purchasing?

The 4 ohms B&W shouldn't be a problem if the room isn't overly large and your listening levels are low to moderate, and the bass is handled by sub or subs.

 

[BenjaminR]

Hi Ben and welcome to Audioholics. Smart move going used as I did the same route with most of my three systems except for the displays, two subs, and one 4K player. That being said, buying used also comes with perils brought to you by unscrupulous people selling off broken components. Is their anyway you can audition everything before purchasing?

The 4 ohms B&W shouldn't be a problem if the room isn't overly large and your listening levels are low to moderate, and the bass is handled by sub or subs.

Hi 3db.

Yeah, I'll be able to hear them in due course.

I just love the 600's from the early 2000's.

I want to recapture the sound of my 602 S3 set up that I had.

So do you think it's a fair price he's asking for?

 

[3db]

Hi 3db.

Yeah, I'll be able to hear them in due course.

I just love the 600's from the early 2000's.

I want to recapture the sound of my 602 S3 set up that I had.

So do you think it's a fair price he's asking for?

I'm sorry but I have no idea whether that is fair or not.

 

[dlaloum]

The speakers are well regarded... and speaker technology moves slowly (top speakers of the 1980's are still top speakers today!).

Buying used for speakers can make a lot of sense as a result... good value to be had there.

Buying used for the AVR can be more of a question mark.
The AVR technology has progressed quite a lot... current AVR's have much more sophisticated Room Equalisation software (Audyssey, Dirac), also things have moved on from 1080p and HDMI 1.4, with all the recent AVR's supporting HDMI 2.1, and up to 8k displays, with the new high contrast/colour gamut standards (Dolby Vision, HDR etc...).
In terms of the audio side of things, the AVR's of 10 years ago were primarily "base layer" with 7.1 being the standard - now we are talking 7.1.4 being more the norm, with the addition of height speakers, and the introduction of Dolby Atmos, DTS-X and Auro3D all providing the additional decoding required to feed the height channels.

So you will have to consider where you want to end up and how you want to get there.

If you are happy with the 5.1 speaker setup vintage 1990's - the HK 5500 is a good AVR... but it will not take, or pass through the latest audio/video standards.

So I would seriously consider a new AVR, and probably an appropriate external power amp, to accompany those speakers.

Why an external power amp? - most of the "budget" or mass market AVR's just don't have enough current, a beefy enough power supply, to drive difficult 4 ohm speakers like these.

I have similar specced speakers - and I run an Integra DRX 3.4, feed the Main L/R channels through an external power amp, and then use the internal power amps to drive surround channels and height speakers. (I run 5.1.4) - The AVR cost me around AU$1750, and the amp cost me around AU$400 used, including shipping, I brought it in from USA, after checking it was compatible with 230/240V.

Other alternatives are AVR's such as the Onkyo RZ70 / Integra 8.4 - these would not require an external power amp, as they have powerful amps with substantial power supplies - but they also cost AU$5000
(they are also capable of running 7.2.4 - and some of the latest Room EQ software Dirac DLBC, where my more basic Integra 3.4 can only run Dirac Live)

Note: I find 5 speakers perfectly adequate for the base layer, adding the 4 height speakers definitely takes things up a notch - in a perfect world you want them all to be timbrally matched, but in reality, you can adjust for that with software like Dirac - by setting a target EQ curve that matches the base layer.

Yes we definitely end up paying an "aussie tax" for the priviledge of participation... gear is more expensive here than in the USA.

P.S. I am making no comment about whether the speakers are good value or not, as I have not been tracking the B&W range for many years....
But you can look at current new equivalents to get an idea of where pricing is at.
And do keep in mind, that as long as the drivers are in good undamaged condition (including surrounds, tweeters not "poked" by kids, etc... - good speakers from 20 years ago are still good speakers today)

 

[mono-bloc]

Firstly I'm also located in OZ [ eastern state ] And I know the used , 2nd hand market quite well , as I buy for other people [buyers agent] But all that aside, What you need to ask yourself is , "Is this good value" Take the time to look round other selling sites for a price comparison. Check your local pawn broker, for system prices Does this system come with all the leads and interconnects. If not why not. Gumtree and FB marketplace is a Scammer's paradise. So make sure your getting what you have paid for, before you hand over the cash. If they won't or can't demo, walk away, your not about to hand over cash in a far away car park. Forget all about the lame excuses, Lack of space, my Granny died again, the cats just had kittens. The remotes stopped working, needs new batteries, yudda,yudda,yudda. And the favorite one, "I've upgraded to a better system, and need to shift this one. If you can't visit and hear the system, then you don't want to know . The golden rule is "Don't be in a hurry" Selling sites like StereoNet, for home theatre can be very good, as can Aussie Audio Mart, which is more for HiFi then home theatre, I've bought from that site and never had a bad deal.

 

[Eppie]

I did have a quick look on Aussie Audio Mart and did not see any DM603. Only one centre channel speaker for B&W postings. I've found the various Audio Mart listings to be the most reputable but nothing there for the op unfortunately. If that seller has the complete system then he should be able to demo it.

 

[BenjaminR]

The speakers are well regarded... and speaker technology moves slowly (top speakers of the 1980's are still top speakers today!).

Buying used for speakers can make a lot of sense as a result... good value to be had there.

Buying used for the AVR can be more of a question mark.
The AVR technology has progressed quite a lot... current AVR's have much more sophisticated Room Equalisation software (Audyssey, Dirac), also things have moved on from 1080p and HDMI 1.4, with all the recent AVR's supporting HDMI 2.1, and up to 8k displays, with the new high contrast/colour gamut standards (Dolby Vision, HDR etc...).
In terms of the audio side of things, the AVR's of 10 years ago were primarily "base layer" with 7.1 being the standard - now we are talking 7.1.4 being more the norm, with the addition of height speakers, and the introduction of Dolby Atmos, DTS-X and Auro3D all providing the additional decoding required to feed the height channels.

So you will have to consider where you want to end up and how you want to get there.

If you are happy with the 5.1 speaker setup vintage 1990's - the HK 5500 is a good AVR... but it will not take, or pass through the latest audio/video standards.

So I would seriously consider a new AVR, and probably an appropriate external power amp, to accompany those speakers.

Why an external power amp? - most of the "budget" or mass market AVR's just don't have enough current, a beefy enough power supply, to drive difficult 4 ohm speakers like these.

I have similar specced speakers - and I run an Integra DRX 3.4, feed the Main L/R channels through an external power amp, and then use the internal power amps to drive surround channels and height speakers. (I run 5.1.4) - The AVR cost me around AU$1750, and the amp cost me around AU$400 used, including shipping, I brought it in from USA, after checking it was compatible with 230/240V.

Other alternatives are AVR's such as the Onkyo RZ70 / Integra 8.4 - these would not require an external power amp, as they have powerful amps with substantial power supplies - but they also cost AU$5000
(they are also capable of running 7.2.4 - and some of the latest Room EQ software Dirac DLBC, where my more basic Integra 3.4 can only run Dirac Live)

Note: I find 5 speakers perfectly adequate for the base layer, adding the 4 height speakers definitely takes things up a notch - in a perfect world you want them all to be timbrally matched, but in reality, you can adjust for that with software like Dirac - by setting a target EQ curve that matches the base layer.

Yes we definitely end up paying an "aussie tax" for the priviledge of participation... gear is more expensive here than in the USA.

P.S. I am making no comment about whether the speakers are good value or not, as I have not been tracking the B&W range for many years....
But you can look at current new equivalents to get an idea of where pricing is at.
And do keep in mind, that as long as the drivers are in good undamaged condition (including surrounds, tweeters not "poked" by kids, etc... - good speakers from 20 years ago are still good speakers today)

Thank you very much.

 

[mono-bloc]

I've found the various Audio Mart listings to be the most reputable

While Aussie Audio Mart also have listing of other countries sales, In most cases they will not freight out side there country of origin. I'm also told that US Audio Mart won't sell to there Canadian counter parts. But this is unconfirmed.

 

[3db]

While Aussie Audio Mart also have listing of other countries sales, In most cases they will not freight out side there country of origin. I'm also told that US Audio Mart won't sell to there Canadian counter parts. But this is unconfirmed.

I bought my RX-A2060 through US audio mart and had it shipped up here to Canuckistan It depends on the seller I think.

 

[mono-bloc]

Thank You for clearing that up

Unfortunately the exchange rates are killing just about everything One aussie dollar is worth somewhere between 62 and 64 cents american, at the moment.

 

[dlaloum]

Thank You for clearing that up

Unfortunately the exchange rates are killing just about everything One aussie dollar is worth somewhere between 62 and 64 cents american, at the moment.

This is true, but sometimes the price difference is so dramatic that the exchange rate and the shipping costs become irrelevant.

Some years back I picked up a used pair (as in 2x) of Crown XLS2500's for US$500, they sell new now for US$800 each - and in australia, over AU$1200 each.... At their retail price, and for their performance, they are a very high value power amp.... at US$250 each (AU$350 roughly) they were an absolute steal.... I did have to do my homework to confirm that the internal circuits were capable of running at 240V, and what was required to convert them from 110V to 240V.... but they have now been my main power amp for over 10 years.

They are very popular in the USA for garage bands and such - and in that Pro environment, can get beaten about a bit (and are designed for it) - and then get resold for silly low prices.... mostly because of where that particular marketplace is at in the USA.
Here in Aus the Crowns maintain their value a heck of a lot better - which means I can resell them now for more than I paid for them (including shipping)...

So, yes, if you do your homework, there can be serious bargains, bringing gear in from other countries.

 

[mono-bloc]

there can be serious bargains, bringing gear in from other countries.

The big problem and a bone of contention is the fact that regardless of whether there new or used, your still required to pay the 10%GST duty on them . And if there used the original owner has already paid the purchase tax, GST, VAT, etc. But your required to pay it again. I've heard Crown, and frankly there more of a P.A, amp then a high fidelity amp.

 

[Wardog555]

Hello from one of your neighboring countries that's a 4 hour flight away!

 

[dlaloum]

The big problem and a bone of contention is the fact that regardless of whether there new or used, your still required to pay the 10%GST duty on them . And if there used the original owner has already paid the purchase tax, GST, VAT, etc. But your required to pay it again. I've heard Crown, and frankly there more of a P.A, amp then a high fidelity amp.

I agree - you have to take GST into account.

With regards to the Crowns - I bought them as an experiment - they were compared in my system to flagship level AVR's (Onkyo SR876 and Integra DTR70.4) as well as very well regarded audiophile power amps (Quad 606 / 707).

In my system, with my speakers, the Crown XLS was on a par with the Quad amps and a notch better than the AVR's.

The Crown and Quad amps were sufficiently close that I do not believe I could tell them appart in a blind test.

Keeping in mind that my speakers go down to 1.6ohm impedance - and the vast majority of amps just end up struggling in various ways with speakers like that.
The Crowns handle it with ease... so do the Quads.

At 2 ohm the Crowns can put out 1200W according to spec (most likely a real life 20-20k 800W) - and the Quads can put out a real life 90W @ 2ohm.... by my calculations, my peak requirements in my room and listening position are around 64W @ 2ohm peak/max

The old AVR's managed OK - but the power amps did marginally better (those AVR's are a particularly beefy generation, weighing around 25kg, and measured at 165W+ @ 8ohm stereo - they have substantial power supplies) - my current 10kg Integra DRX 3.4 does not do well with these speakers... but when hooked up to the power amps, sounds no different (in the raw... running direct without DSP) to the older AVR's with amps connected.

I cannot speak for other people's experiences, but I can say that the house of Harman has used the same Drivecore circuits in their Lexicon and Synthesis high end product, so although the models I am using are generally marketed into the PA market, they are worth evaluating on their merits - which I have done, and am very happy with.

There is a very lengthy thread where an XLS1500 amp was sent on a tour of the USA, being tested and reviewed by a wide range of audiophiles on the Audiocircle forum... responses were widely varied, as were the different speakers and systems used.... this thread lead to me own experiments with the Crown amps.
Before writing them off as a "PA amp" - I would urge reading this thread:

Crown XLS- for the rest of us!

Crown XLS- for the rest of us!

www.audiocircle.com

 

[BenjaminR]

Firstly I'm also located in OZ [ eastern state ] And I know the used , 2nd hand market quite well , as I buy for other people [buyers agent] But all that aside, What you need to ask yourself is , "Is this good value" Take the time to look round other selling sites for a price comparison. Check your local pawn broker, for system prices Does this system come with all the leads and interconnects. If not why not. Gumtree and FB marketplace is a Scammer's paradise. So make sure your getting what you have paid for, before you hand over the cash. If they won't or can't demo, walk away, your not about to hand over cash in a far away car park. Forget all about the lame excuses, Lack of space, my Granny died again, the cats just had kittens. The remotes stopped working, needs new batteries, yudda,yudda,yudda. And the favorite one, "I've upgraded to a better system, and need to shift this one. If you can't visit and hear the system, then you don't want to know . The golden rule is "Don't be in a hurry" Selling sites like StereoNet, for home theatre can be very good, as can Aussie Audio Mart, which is more for HiFi then home theatre, I've bought from that site and never had a bad deal.

I ended up buying through another Gumtree seller.

Got some lovely Mission, Jamo and PSB speakers instead.