Heat and electricity

F

Focus SE

Junior Audioholic
Searching any forum including this one is like calling an automated customer service number. It never has the options you’re looking for. Here is my question, I am currently using my Marantz cinema 60 for 99.9% streaming audio. I am running two sets of speakers (one set is hardly ever on) both are powered by a Marantz 7055 amp. So the avr is merely a processor at this point because the speakers are hooked to the pre-outs. However the receiver still gets hot when it’s not pushing anything. Im Curious as to why when there is no load on the avr it would still get hot.
My second curiosity is power supply to my home. I thought I was crazy that the performance of my speakers fluctuates depending on the time of day. Early mornings and at night I appear to get more clarity and volume at the same setting. I looked it up on line andI guess it’s a real thing. According to PS audios Paul McGowan it is absolutely an issue in their factory. Of course they sell a power supply to correct that for 12k. I know there has to be more reasonable solutions. Has anyone even experienced this and found a solution?
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
Searching any forum including this one is like calling an automated customer service number. It never has the options you’re looking for. Here is my question, I am currently using my Marantz cinema 60 for 99.9% streaming audio. I am running two sets of speakers (one set is hardly ever on) both are powered by a Marantz 7055 amp. So the avr is merely a processor at this point because the speakers are hooked to the pre-outs. However the receiver still gets hot when it’s not pushing anything. Im Curious as to why when there is no load on the avr it would still get hot.
My second curiosity is power supply to my home. I thought I was crazy that the performance of my speakers fluctuates depending on the time of day. Early mornings and at night I appear to get more clarity and volume at the same setting. I looked it up on line andI guess it’s a real thing. According to PS audios Paul McGowan it is absolutely an issue in their factory. Of course they sell a power supply to correct that for 12k. I know there has to be more reasonable solutions. Has anyone even experienced this and found a solution?
Welcome to the forum and I hope you find what you're looking for. Comparing the AH crowd to a menu for customer service perhaps is a rough start but I understand the sentiment. I think you put your question in to the right bucket. Its the pit of summer where I live so things might be a little slow for responses.

You express two issues. Heat coming out of your AVR and a variance in your listening quality based on time of day. Let's look at heat first.

Are your electronics all in a stack? is your AVR hemmed in by cabinetry? Its hard to visualize all the configurations but there are lots of folks whose audio woes are caused by stacking their gear in a cabinet with minimal clearance and very little airflow. And a box that gets warm is still not an issue. A box that gets HOT is probably an issue. If you can, toss the AH crew some descriptions (a photo would be best) of how you are laid out.

The variability throughout the day of sound quality is a completely different animal IMHO. Quoting Paul McGowan for power issues is also probably going to generate more laughter than sympathetic nods. Paul is a master salesman. I don't think he's met an issue he doesn't have an expensive product to fix. What I will say about the performance of your speakers changing throughout the day may sound like an affront, but, I guarantee its based in experience.

We, you and I, are the most variable and unreliable parts of our music systems. We are, in a phrase, a bag of worms. We are variable, unpredictable and subject to all manner of influences that affect our listening ability throughout a day. Our equipment however, is rarely that changeable or variable. And the external environment that surrounds your listening area is also changing throughout the day. Noise. Interference. Just the nonsense of a typical day. If I were to chase down the variance you may be GENUINELY hearing, I would start looking at yourself and the noise around you. I know in my world, when that happens to me (and it does) I have learned that the most likely cause is ME. I take a break. Do something else. Clear my head. Voila, the equipment is back to performing. The nice part is its FREE.

YMMV and hope you enjoy the forum.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Is the avr in the dedicated pre-amp mode? That may help a bit. Heat like was said can also come from location/ventilation, and video and other circuits aren't heat free either. Can you measure the temperature of the unit for reference?

I'd not worry about the power supply changing, your electronics' power supplies should be up to some variance easily enough. Your mood and the amount of noise in your environment sound like more likely influences than buying some power cord or power massager Paul McG wants to sell you, which is likely not going to do anything except damage your wallet.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Searching any forum including this one is like calling an automated customer service number. It never has the options you’re looking for. Here is my question, I am currently using my Marantz cinema 60 for 99.9% streaming audio. I am running two sets of speakers (one set is hardly ever on) both are powered by a Marantz 7055 amp. So the avr is merely a processor at this point because the speakers are hooked to the pre-outs. However the receiver still gets hot when it’s not pushing anything. Im Curious as to why when there is no load on the avr it would still get hot.
My second curiosity is power supply to my home. I thought I was crazy that the performance of my speakers fluctuates depending on the time of day. Early mornings and at night I appear to get more clarity and volume at the same setting. I looked it up on line andI guess it’s a real thing. According to PS audios Paul McGowan it is absolutely an issue in their factory. Of course they sell a power supply to correct that for 12k. I know there has to be more reasonable solutions. Has anyone even experienced this and found a solution?
The amps are still using current. This is the quiescent current, and that will create some heat. It all comes down to the bias point between class A and B. The more it is biased to class A, the higher the quiescent current, but the better the low signal quality. Your Cinema 60 has a quiescent power draw of 45 watts, which is 7% of the full power draw. However, a 45 watt light bulb makes quite a bit of heat. So even when not using the amps to power speakers, it is still like having an old 45 watt incandescent light bulb inside your receiver. The only way round this is to go with separates and use an AVP. Even then, good ventilation is still required, and you need at least 5" of clearance all above and to the sides.

I highly doubt your line voltage is sagging, and if it is your power company is out of compliance. You can easily check this with a multimeter.
 
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Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Is the avr in the dedicated pre-amp mode? That may help a bit. Heat like was said can also come from location/ventilation, and video and other circuits aren't heat free either. Can you measure the temperature of the unit for reference?

I'd not worry about the power supply changing, your electronics' power supplies should be up to some variance easily enough. Your mood and the amount of noise in your environment sound like more likely influences than buying some power cord or power massager Paul McG wants to sell you, which is likely not going to do anything except damage your wallet.
I don't know if there are other brands than Denon with AVRs featuring a preamp mode. But with current Denon AVRs which have a preamp mode, the inboard power amps remain powered and heat up the whole thing. My X3700H operates in the preamp mode at present, and the ECO mode is automatically on in that function and this doesn't either reduce heat production.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I don't know if there are other brands than Denon with AVRs featuring a preamp mode. But with current Denon AVRs which have a preamp mode, the inboard power amps remain powered and heat up the whole thing. My X3700H functions in the preamp mode and the ECO mode is automatically on in that function and this doesn't either reduce heat production.
Marantz and Denon share a lot of features. I do believe his has a dedicated pre-amp mode, which does turn off some of the amp circuitry involved (but in terms of heat may be negligible, don't know). @PENG may have some thoughts on that angle.
 
P

philly

Audioholic Intern
Searching any forum including this one is like calling an automated customer service number. It never has the options you’re looking for. Here is my question, I am currently using my Marantz cinema 60 for 99.9% streaming audio. I am running two sets of speakers (one set is hardly ever on) both are powered by a Marantz 7055 amp. So the avr is merely a processor at this point because the speakers are hooked to the pre-outs. However the receiver still gets hot when it’s not pushing anything. Im Curious as to why when there is no load on the avr it would still get hot.
My second curiosity is power supply to my home. I thought I was crazy that the performance of my speakers fluctuates depending on the time of day. Early mornings and at night I appear to get more clarity and volume at the same setting. I looked it up on line andI guess it’s a real thing. According to PS audios Paul McGowan it is absolutely an issue in their factory. Of course they sell a power supply to correct that for 12k. I know there has to be more reasonable solutions. Has anyone even experienced this and found a solution?
Well I'm no expert or an electrician for that matter... but just based on experience, I have the Marantz amp10. It generates a lot of heat even when I'm not pushing it too hard. After Reading and getting recommendations, I use the AC infinity cooler between it and my preamp, which helps significantly, and the panamax 5400 Power Conditioner, which I assume "cleans, conditions, and levels out" the power from my circuits, which are probably from the 1950s. so it can't hurt anything plus it safely powers them off and on. Just my 2 cents worth....
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Searching any forum including this one is like calling an automated customer service number. It never has the options you’re looking for. Here is my question, I am currently using my Marantz cinema 60 for 99.9% streaming audio. I am running two sets of speakers (one set is hardly ever on) both are powered by a Marantz 7055 amp. So the avr is merely a processor at this point because the speakers are hooked to the pre-outs. However the receiver still gets hot when it’s not pushing anything. Im Curious as to why when there is no load on the avr it would still get hot.
My second curiosity is power supply to my home. I thought I was crazy that the performance of my speakers fluctuates depending on the time of day. Early mornings and at night I appear to get more clarity and volume at the same setting. I looked it up on line andI guess it’s a real thing. According to PS audios Paul McGowan it is absolutely an issue in their factory. Of course they sell a power supply to correct that for 12k. I know there has to be more reasonable solutions. Has anyone even experienced this and found a solution?
When you hooked up your system and went to using a power amplifier did you put your receiver into preamp mode? If not then your receivers internal amplifiers will still be trying to push current which can increase your avrs heat

Also other internal components such as HDMI boards can cause heat generation as well and on some companies these types of parts can put out a lot of heat Denon and Marantz are 2 companies whose AVR's are notorious of this reputation
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Well I'm no expert or an electrician for that matter... but just based on experience, I have the Marantz amp10. It generates a lot of heat even when I'm not pushing it too hard. After Reading and getting recommendations, I use the AC infinity cooler between it and my preamp, which helps significantly, and the panamax 5400 Power Conditioner, which I assume "cleans, conditions, and levels out" the power from my circuits, which are probably from the 1950s. so it can't hurt anything plus it safely powers them off and on. Just my 2 cents worth....
Yeah I use fans on all my gear the cooler you can keep electronics the better
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
... I thought I was crazy that the performance of my speakers fluctuates depending on the time of day. Early mornings and at night I appear to get more clarity and volume at the same setting. ...
How are you able to compare these events other than from memory? ;)
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
I should get a small fridge and place them in it. :D :D :D
Just a nit here, the goal with heat and electronics is NOT to refrigerate them. That's not the thermodynamic goal.
I know your comment was tongue in cheek. Good humor. I got it. two thumbs up.

The goal with excess BTUs is heat removal. If one has electronics generating excess BTU's of heat, the only path that makes economic sense is heat removal: which means exhaust fans of some type. Trying to refrigerate electronics will ultimately cost more than the value produced by the electronics themselves.

I too use an AC Infinity heat removal fan system on my AVR. Do I absolutely NEED to ? Nope. Do I WANT to use it? Yes ! In my pea sized brain it removes the heat, silently, and that should improve the lifespan of the device.
It disappears to the eye, it's all black and looks like a pizza box on top of the AVR. Makes zero discernible noise.
And it autosenses a point where it turns on the exhaust fans and when the AVR cools down it turns off the fans.

And how does the OP compare one days result from another ? Memory?
(See my comments on us as humans being a bag of worms.) Memory would be the worst way.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
...

And how does the OP compare one days result from another ? Memory?
(See my comments on us as humans being a bag of worms.) Memory would be the worst way.
Oh, I did see it. ;)
Mine is a different challenge to him.
 
F

Focus SE

Junior Audioholic
Thanks for the reply folks, .bukneked your point is taken however it wasn’t a shot at this or any thread. My comment was ment in good fun in trying to explain that I understand that all kinds of nubs ask questions before going over the already existing points that ask and answer the questions. Proving once again that human communication is not an exact science. I’m finding quickly many in this community are very literal and I am way on the abstract side. The Paul Mcgown comment was what I thought was total obvious sarcasm but I read the rules here and I’m not supposed to take shots at companies or people. (no sarcasm) I really do appreciate your response I’m just trying to relate in an area I’m just learning the lingo. The units are in the open and it really is a warmth more than heat
 
F

Focus SE

Junior Audioholic
Is the avr in the dedicated pre-amp mode? That may help a bit. Heat like was said can also come from location/ventilation, and video and other circuits aren't heat free either. Can you measure the temperature of the unit for reference?

I'd not worry about the power supply changing, your electronics' power supplies should be up to some variance easily enough. Your mood and the amount of noise in your environment sound like more likely influences than buying some power cord or power massager Paul McG wants to sell you, which is likely not going to do anything except damage your wallet.
Thank you That is a good point on pre amp setting when I went through the set up I definitely did not put it in pre amp mode. As far as heat I guess that’s a relative term. But with no surface thermometer not sure the exact temp. All I can say is (because this whole system is new to me I’m pushing it to see what it will do) when I get close to the 50 mark on the volume dial the internal fan on the amp kicks in. And I’ve only done that a handful of times once to 62 and imminent hearing loss was a serious concern and I like it on the louder side. (I fully understand in those moments heat is going to be generated and a lot of it) my question was referring to when I hover around the 35 mark. I am pushing big 4ohm speakers with a unit that only publishes ratings to 6ohm measurements. I’m not in fear of overheating it just gets warm and I will definitely revisit set up
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Searching any forum including this one is like calling an automated customer service number. It never has the options you’re looking for. Here is my question, I am currently using my Marantz cinema 60 for 99.9% streaming audio. I am running two sets of speakers (one set is hardly ever on) both are powered by a Marantz 7055 amp. So the avr is merely a processor at this point because the speakers are hooked to the pre-outs. However the receiver still gets hot when it’s not pushing anything. Im Curious as to why when there is no load on the avr it would still get hot.
My second curiosity is power supply to my home. I thought I was crazy that the performance of my speakers fluctuates depending on the time of day. Early mornings and at night I appear to get more clarity and volume at the same setting. I looked it up on line andI guess it’s a real thing. According to PS audios Paul McGowan it is absolutely an issue in their factory. Of course they sell a power supply to correct that for 12k. I know there has to be more reasonable solutions. Has anyone even experienced this and found a solution?
Your line voltage can sag, but it's supposed to be ±10% and if you want to know if it's within tolerance, measure it. Living close to a large commercial/industrial power customer increases the likelihood of larger fluctuations and if it is farther from the stated voltage, call the power company and have them monitor it. A good clue about this is if a commercial/industrial facility has extremely heavy power lines and no transformer nearby.
 
F

Focus SE

Junior Audioholic
Well I'm no expert or an electrician for that matter... but just based on experience, I have the Marantz amp10. It generates a lot of heat even when I'm not pushing it too hard. After Reading and getting recommendations, I use the AC infinity cooler between it and my preamp, which helps significantly, and the panamax 5400 Power Conditioner, which I assume "cleans, conditions, and levels out" the power from my circuits, which are probably from the 1950s. so it can't hurt anything plus it safely powers them off and on. Just my 2 cents worth....
I do believe you’re on to something my home is built it 2004 so it’s up to code with 14 gauge wire. Buckneked could very possibly be right that at least in my case I may be the ever changing variable. I’m trying to learn so much in a short period. I’ve metered it because of my belief I’m fluctuating in power. Depending on the outlet I’m reading between 114 and 117 Volts constantly even when I’m perceiving a drop in sound. My understanding is some of the capacitors in these units are designed exactly for the purposes of controlling the electricity flow in order to regulate the fluctuations. No out of curiosity I want to meter the amperage for curiosity.
 
F

Focus SE

Junior Audioholic
Yeah I use fans on all my gear the cooler you can keep electronics the better
Both of your points are valid. I did not use the pre amp set up. And I need to get a fan. I’m not worried my house will burn down because of heat but I do use my equipment and wish to preserve their longevity. I am now on the hunt for a quiet fan.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Well I'm no expert or an electrician for that matter... but just based on experience, I have the Marantz amp10. It generates a lot of heat even when I'm not pushing it too hard. After Reading and getting recommendations, I use the AC infinity cooler between it and my preamp, which helps significantly, and the panamax 5400 Power Conditioner, which I assume "cleans, conditions, and levels out" the power from my circuits, which are probably from the 1950s. so it can't hurt anything plus it safely powers them off and on. Just my 2 cents worth....
Don't assume anything- read the manual. You should also find the definitions of "cleans, conditions and levels out"- most power devices from consumer brands do nothing like that, but they limit the voltage surges and in the case of some Panamax models like the M4000, the power is cut when the voltage exceeds 140VAC or drops below 90VAC. Aside from that, any 'dirt' on the powerlines is filtered in the equipment's power supply very effectively.

"Your circuits" may be from the 1950s, but as long as the connections are good, the number of connections from breaker panel to end point aren't excessive and the wire is sized properly, you should see no difference between yours and newer houses. One difference that should be noted- new residential construction requires 12ga wire where most circuits could use 14ga in the past. If you want to be sure the circuit(s) for your AV equipment has no bad effects on the performance, you could have a dedicated, unbroken circuit installed, with 12ga.
 

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