Headphone experience

[furrycute]

I dabbled in headphones before I switched to speakers. I have tried many headphones. So for the benefit of this community, I would like to contribute my experience.

In my opinion, no headphone can beat the sound of a good pair of speakers (at least the ones I have tried).

The best headphone I have ever tried is the Sony MDR-CD3000 (there is the Sony R10 that is better than the 3000, but at over $3000, I am not willing to spend that much). The CD3000 gives me the closest approximation to the sound from a pair of speakers.

The Sennheiser HD650/600 is highly regarded. But in my opinion, the Sennheisers are muddy and slow compared to the Sony CD3000. If you have to purchase a pair of Sennheisers, the HD600 is preferrable to the HD650. Sennheiser tweaked the HD650 to give it slightly more bass emphasis than the HD600. So I preferred the HD600 over the HD650.

There are some expensive aftermarket cables for the HD650/600 (those cables are replaceable). You can try them if you believe in them. In my opinion, they are largely placebo.

There is a growing market of very expensive headphone amps. Some headphones just cannot be driven satisfactorily from the headphone out of your CD walkman. I have tried some really expensive dedicated headphone amps, ones around $1000. In my opinion, those expensive headphone amps are way overrated. For $1000 you can buy some really nice speaker equipment. Stick with the headphone out of your integrated amp to power your headphone amps.

At one time, I had over $5000 invested in headphone related equipment. Luckily I saw the light, and sold off all of them, and converted everything to speaker related equipment. And I have been very happy ever since.

Anyway, that's my two cents on headphones.

 

[mfabien]

My Yamaha receiver reproduces surround DSP processing very well with a my W500 Recoton wireless headphones.

I use this when my wife goes to bed or if I want to listen to a program with good sound and I don't want to wait till the next morning to play it back on the DVR.

 

[WmAx]

In my opinion, no headphone can beat the sound of a good pair of speakers (at least the ones I have tried).

Depends on the specific circumstances. As far in as realism, headphones can not match speakers(regardless of binaural recording) due to several variables that are yet to be addressed in sum in a product. However, for some modern type pop/dance musics I generally prefer headphones and some others may prefer them as well.

The best headphone I have ever tried is the Sony MDR-CD3000 (there is the Sony R10 that is better than the 3000, but at over $3000, I am not willing to spend that much). The CD3000 gives me the closest approximation to the sound from a pair of speakers.

I don't know if the R10 is better -- that depends on the person listening. I know that, overall, for the types of music I use on headphones(mainly pop, rock, electronic/dance--a distinct contrast from what I use in speaker listening) that I did not prefer the R10 to the MDR-CD3000. I should note that I use a modified version of the CD3000 with a cloth installed over the drivers to slightly(-1.5db average at >10kHz) shelf down high treble amplitude.

There are some expensive aftermarket cables for the HD650/600 (those cables are replaceable). You can try them if you believe in them. In my opinion, they are largely placebo.

Excatly the same circumstnce as interconnects and speaker cables.

There is a growing market of very expensive headphone amps. Some headphones just cannot be driven satisfactorily from the headphone out of your CD walkman.

True. The HD600 is an example that usually requires higher voltage output then is provided by most portable devices. Another concern is that the coupling capacitors used on the output stage in some portables may have insufficient capacitance value, thuse cause excessive low frequency roll-off when coupled with some low impedance headhones.

I have tried some really expensive dedicated headphone amps, ones around $1000. In my opinion, those expensive headphone amps are way overrated. For $1000 you can buy some really nice speaker equipment. Stick with the headphone out of your integrated amp to power your headphone amps.

ANd if you have a very senstivie headphone like the MDR-CD3000 stick with anything, such as a portable.

-Chris

 

[cbraver]

I have Beyerdynamic DT831s powered by a Meta42 DIY headphone amplifier. They sound fantastic.

You didn't mention Grados, which are great, Beyerdynamic's line, the Etymotic ER4S are awesome. AKG... I'm forgetting a bunch.... There are a lot of good options in headphone listening and for significantly less money than speakers, you can get sound that is very flat and good. The main reason is you don't need to deal with the listening room! With crossfeeds you can make a headphone sound a lot more (but not like) a pair of speakers too... moving the sound forward and letting a bit from the left drain into the right and vice versa. But even that is not always neccessary. I don't use a crossfeed.

But it's just a different hobby. I good pair of headphones, and if you wish, a moderately priced DIY or pre-built headphone amp, is awesome for work, listening late at night, listening in bed, etc. etc. If you travel a lot that is a whole new story. Lots of enjoyment for relatively small costs.

Headphones and speakers just simply have different weaknesses at their pricepoints. You can find enjoyment in each, and I have found enjoyment in both.

To each their own I guess. There are all kinds of debates on this that leave things open ended and one sided. Here, people will probably side with speakers, on head-fi.org people will probably side with headphones.

Your opinions seem pretty uneducated though.

I agree with WmAx in that electronic genres are great for headphones. I mix trance on turntables with headphones.

I probably have $250-300 in headphone gear... and I feel it was well spent. I use my headphones by the computer or on the mixer every day!

-Chad

 

[WmAx]

To each their own I guess. There are all kinds of debates on this that leave things open ended and one sided. Here, people will probably side with speakers, on head-fi.org people will probably side with headphones.

I've read quite a few threads debating this issue on head-fi.org. Aside from the distinct minority, it seemed that most head-fi.org members overwhelmingly agreed in my observations that speakers are a superior experience for realism if not limited by funds or constrained by their available listening environment(s). Seems headphones are primarily a tool of convenience -- of course their are also the exceptions of which are rare.

-Chris

 

[cbraver]

I've read quite a few threads debating this issue on head-fi.org. Aside from the distinct minority, it seemed that most head-fi.org members overwhelmingly agreed in my observations that speakers are a superior experience for realism if not limited by funds or constrained by their available listening environment(s). Seems headphones are primarily a tool of convenience -- of course their are also the exceptions of which are rare.

-Chris

Um. If not limited by funds or constrined by their available listening environments? So, basically, speakers are better if you have a studio for a listening room and a huge budget? That's a retarded statement.

I personally would rather listen on speakers in most cases for a number of reasons, but that is sure not why I justify them over headphones.

-Chad

 

[cbraver]

...maybe I read into that too much. I apologize if I did.

But, most speakers are installed in crappy-acoustical rooms.

I agree that I would rather listen to a pair of speakers though.

 

[WmAx]

Um. If not limited by funds or constrined by their available listening environments? So, basically, speakers are better if you have a studio for a listening room and a huge budget? That's a retarded statement.

I personally would rather listen on speakers in most cases for a number of reasons, but that is sure not why I justify them over headphones.

-Chad

Retarded?

My perspective is meant to extend to the potential 'best' case scenarios of each system. A 'studio' environment is not nescarry to have high quality speaker playback --- but I don't even know what your issue with my response is at this point or how it deserved to be labeled as 'retarded'.

But on the case where headphones are a better choice: many people are forced into small dorms or apartments where proper speakering listening is not possibe due to the room size or due to noise that would be transimitted to others through the walls. Also, often economics can be of prime concen; very good full range headphone can be had for $100-$200 that will operate correctly from a $50 personal CD Player. An entry level full range speaker set up and source/amplification will cost several times the $150-$250 total cost of an excellent headphone system.

-Chris

 

[cbraver]

I misunderstood. Thought you meant something totally different. My bad.

-Chad

 

[furrycute]

A good pair of floorstanding speakers, powered by a decent amp, almost always sound better than a headphone setup.

Of course there is always the neighbor factor, sometimes you just don't have a choice.

 

[Mudcat]

I still use my Koss K6s (from the early 70s) still sound good. Powered by an Alto HP4A amp (4 discrete power sections driving up to 12 pair of phones). I also have 4 pair on Sennheiser 570s (HD I think)

 

[Steve1000]

I dabbled in headphones before I switched to speakers. I have tried many headphones. So for the benefit of this community, I would like to contribute my experience.

Thanks, interesting thread, I think you make some good points.

In my opinion, no headphone can beat the sound of a good pair of speakers (at least the ones I have tried).

I would prefer a great speaker setup, all other things being equal. But if you have a digital equalizer (I use a Behringer DEQ2496), I think it's much easier to get to your ideal tonal balance with headphones. Speakers were no longer practical for me after I had kids. My headphone setup is now my little sanctuary, my little corner of peaceful bliss and relaxation at the end of the day.

The best headphone I have ever tried is the Sony MDR-CD3000 (there is the Sony R10 that is better than the 3000, but at over $3000, I am not willing to spend that much). The CD3000 gives me the closest approximation to the sound from a pair of speakers.

You are getting into murky territory with judging what is "best" in an absolute sense. Plus, a good digital EQ is indeed the great "equalizer." I'll take a digitally equalized (to my prefernces and ears) $50 Sony MDR CD580 or a digitally equalized $70 Grado SR60 over a straight-up unequalized $400 CD3000 any day of the week.

The Sennheiser HD650/600 is highly regarded. But in my opinion, the Sennheisers are muddy and slow compared to the Sony CD3000. If you have to purchase a pair of Sennheisers, the HD600 is preferrable to the HD650. Sennheiser tweaked the HD650 to give it slightly more bass emphasis than the HD600. So I preferred the HD600 over the HD650.

I prefer the Senn HD580s to the Senn HD650s, and with the HD580s I still feel the highs are shy of neutral and a little frustrating. So we have similar taste. I can't relate to the HD650 crowd either. But why not live and let live? If someone genuinely prefers the HD650s, how do you argue with that? Why not allow for the fact that their preference is valid?

The HD580s are great phones for EQ, BTW.

There are some expensive aftermarket cables for the HD650/600 (those cables are replaceable). You can try them if you believe in them. In my opinion, they are largely placebo.

Absolutely agree. It's nonsense. I might have worded it even more strongly, but then things degenerate into flame wars.

There is a growing market of very expensive headphone amps. Some headphones just cannot be driven satisfactorily from the headphone out of your CD walkman. I have tried some really expensive dedicated headphone amps, ones around $1000. In my opinion, those expensive headphone amps are way overrated. For $1000 you can buy some really nice speaker equipment. Stick with the headphone out of your integrated amp to power your headphone amps.

I agree. I've found that for my purposes my $60 Behringer UB802 mixer will amplify just about any headphone just as well as the expensive $400 and up headphone amps. Plus I can set the gain level, pan, switch the channels, have three-way tone controls, have multiple inputs and outputs, and watch the flashing pretty lights....

At one time, I had over $5000 invested in headphone related equipment. Luckily I saw the light, and sold off all of them, and converted everything to speaker related equipment. And I have been very happy ever since.

My experience is that for between $500 and $1000 (allowing for a $300 digital equalizer) I've pretty much maxed out the headphone scene. I'm thrilled with what I have. The cornerstone and great epiphany for me is the digital equalizer.

Anyway, that's my two cents on headphones.

Thanks. It was interesting, and good for Audioholics.

 

[cbraver]

I agree. I've found that for my purposes my $60 Behringer UB802 mixer will amplify just about any headphone just as well as the expensive $400 and up headphone amps. Plus I can set the gain level, pan, switch the channels, have three-way tone controls, have multiple inputs and outputs, and watch the flashing pretty lights....

Haha. I have a Vestax PVC-175. Granted, I do actually use it for what it was intended for, but it does in fact have a GREAT amplifier! Because of their design purposes, a decent mixer will often play extremely loud and stay very clear... so, be careful with your ears! Don't get DJitis, as they call it. I have two Technics 1200s and a computer hooked up to it's three channels.

PSSL.com has an awesome sale on it now and other Vestax mixers, http://pssl.com/bitemdetail.tpl?eqint_KeyIDdata=8066&UID=2004120919435127

Vestax is looked upon as among the best.

-Chad

 

[cbraver]

High res picture.

http://www.vestax.com/images/mixers/pcv175_big.jpg

 

[Steve1000]

I don't doubt the Vestax is one fun piece of gear.

The Behringer is an ultra-basic recording / performance mixer as opposed to a DJ mixer. It's so easy to get an amplifier to perform to thresholds of human perception, I don't doubt that either one works great.

Good advice about the volume -- even my $60 Behringer UB802 can drive headphones to insane, ear-bleeding volumes without even breaking a sweat. My normal listening level is just a small fraction of what the volume would be if I had the gain, mixer volume and headphone volume all turned all the way up.

Actually, keeping the volume down is good advice for headphone listening in general. Distortion is so low and you're not bothering your neighbors, it's just too easy to push the volume too high.

Haha. I have a Vestax PVC-175. Granted, I do actually use it for what it was intended for, but it does in fact have a GREAT amplifier! Because of their design purposes, a decent mixer will often play extremely loud and stay very clear... so, be careful with your ears! Don't get DJitis, as they call it. I have two Technics 1200s and a computer hooked up to it's three channels.

PSSL.com has an awesome sale on it now and other Vestax mixers, http://pssl.com/bitemdetail.tpl?eqint_KeyIDdata=8066&UID=2004120919435127

Vestax is looked upon as among the best.

-Chad

 

[WmAx]

You are getting into murky territory with judging what is "best" in an absolute sense. Plus, a good digital EQ is indeed the great "equalizer." I'll take a digitally equalized (to my prefernces and ears) $50 Sony MDR CD580 or a digitally equalized $70 Grado SR60 over a straight-up unequalized $400 CD3000 any day of the week.

Hey now, but I very much like the MDR-CD3000(with a fabric installed over the drivers to slightly shelf down upper treble). I can not particularly stand the product without the filters, however.

Steve is entirely correct: the E.Q. is probably the most important tool available after having a decent headphone with few resonances to start with such as the HD580/HD600, etc.

Personally, if I had the E.Q. power of a DEQ2496 available in a portable(pocket size) device I would use the Sony MDR-F1. Very clean response(E.Q.able to just about anything one might prefer--though I'm not sure how it behave if you tried to push 30hz up +10dB), extremely comfortable and pretty much the best possible construction quality possible. Unfortunately, I have to put up with the inherant transfer function of headphones until such a portable device surfaces. Apparently Steve only uses his headphones on a stationary system -- where as I use mine almost entirely in portable situations.

-Chris

 

[RHMMMM]

I was into headphones a lot - started off (my high end experience) with the CD3000's which I loved, then migrated to the HD650's.

Built a PPA Headphone amp and loved it - awesome sound! Also, the forums at Head-Fi - still read them every day.

Sold the CD3000's and bought an Accuphase E-211 Integrated amp and JM Lab Electra 906's - and I haven't put the HD650's on for a month straight, I never thought I'd love speakers this much, but it adds so much more realism - imaging and soundstage!

 

[Mudcat]

Surround Sound Headphones

Has anyone tried a pair of these. I was surfing eBay and saw several pairs. Most are a single can, but Zalman uses six individual speakers. I've read a few conflicting reviews of the Zalman, but figure, for $60, I can patch my four channel Alto HP4A to work with them. Zalman also has a seperate 5.1 amp for these cans at $100. Any thoughts.

 

[WmAx]

The *only* way a two transducer surround headphone can work effecitvely for a majority of people is if it has a user-defined HRTF calibration function. Do the surround headphones have such a function? I don't know---but I would certainly look for such a listed feature on the product. Another important feature would be a motion sensor that instructs the DSP to reorient the soundstage as your head moves. I speak of ideals, of course.

As for 'six' speaker headphones, uhm, I would question if this was a competant execution or a very cheap execution of the idea. The headphone manufacturers seems to have trouble producing a 2 driver headphone of good quality for a low price --- it's hard for me to imagine them having an exception with 3x the transducers and added electronics.

-Chris

Has anyone tried a pair of these. I was surfing eBay and saw several pairs. Most are a single can, but Zalman uses six individual speakers. I've read a few conflicting reviews of the Zalman, but figure, for $60, I can patch my four channel Alto HP4A to work with them. Zalman also has a seperate 5.1 amp for these cans at $100. Any thoughts.