HDMI analog upconversion question

[fannatic]

Just wondering if someone could clarify a question for me. I am a little confused with how the upconversion works through the receivers. I understand that you can input through component video and output through HDMI, but where does the upconversion come into play?

I've read a few reviews and they all say you can select the quality of the output (i.e. 480i/480p/720p/1080i/whatever) from the receiver menus; however, when I read the technical documents for the same receivers (on the receiver manufacturer websites) it specifies that you have to output at the same resolution as the input. Where does the upconversion come into all of this?

Can I hook a regular DVD player/PS2/xBox to an upconverting receiver through component cables, then output to the TV using HDMI, and have the receiver upconvert it to 720p? Or does it have to remain at the input resolution of the DVD player/PS2/xBox?

Thanks

 

[j_garcia]

If the receiver says it does upconversion (not transcoding), then it will output at whatever you set it to. Transcoding would be passing the same resolution, just changing it to a different output type (component -> HDMI). Upconversion will not make it look exactly like HD, but it should look better than the original signal.

 

[avaserfi]

That really depends on what type of receiver you have. If you have the newer onkyos being released they can actually upconvert from 480p to 720p etc. What the other receivers do it switch the signal from component to hdmi so you can have one single cable run from your receiver to your screen.

 

[fannatic]

The review I am speaking of is for the Denon AVR 4306 receiver on cnet.com. It states:

"Incredibly well-featured 7.1-channel receiver; excellent sound quality; three HDMI inputs; converts analog video to HDMI output; upconverts analog video to 720p/1080i HD resolution; ..."

The product spec sheet on the denon website states:

"The AVR-4306 includes a video up/down conversion function that allows the unit to be connected to the video monitor via a single cable regardless of the video input signal's format as follows:
1) Composite video signals are converted to HDMI (*2), component video, & S-video;
2) S-video signals are converted to HDMI (*2), component video, & composite video;
3) Component video signals are converted to HDMI (*2), composite video (*3), & S-video (*3).
*2. Output signal up-converted to HDMI retains the resolution of the input signal.
*3. Down-conversion from component video to composite or S-video applies only to 480i input signals."


So, in the case of this receiver, "upconverting" means changing from component to HDMI? The confusing thing is there is also a video review for this receiver on Cnet.com, and it shows the menu where you can select the output resolution.

 

[j_garcia]

That sounds like transcoding, not upconversion then, it is often mislabeled as upconversion.

 

[MDS]

Yes, upconversion is a generic catch-all term that is often used but it means different things in different contexts.

To reiterate what j_garcia said, 'transcoding' is taking a signal that came in one format and converting it to a different format; like composite video to component video or component video to HDMI. Nothing is changed with regards to resolution.

Scaling and Deinterlacing are lumped together under the term upconversion too. Converting an interlaced signal like 480i to 480p is deinterlacing and changing the resolution from 480p to 720p is scaling.

It sounds like that receiver can transcode any analog video format to HDMI but does not scale or deinterlace in those cases. Analog video can be upconverted to 720p/1080i but only if it is output over component and not HDMI. That's the way I read it.

 

[fannatic]

Ok, I think I'm getting this now. If you want to do the resolution "upconversion" and use the analog to digital "upconversion" you'll have to buy two of these suckers? That doesn't sound right...There has to be someway do both, or at least to loop the composite output back into the receiver and send the already "upconverted" signal out the HDMI port??

Anyone have any insight?

 

[j_garcia]

The 4306 is a semi-older unit at this point, their new models should be coming out later this year. I'd look at the reviews on the main page here, as I think there are a Yamaha and a Pioneer that do actually do upconversion like what you are looking for. Not sure which models though. I'd also look at the new Onkyo 805 because it may do this as well.

 

[fannatic]

I received this from Denon customer support (a very quick response time I might add):

"The AVR-4306 will SCALE an ANALOG video signal (with no copy
protection) to 480P, 720P or 1080i."

Can I assume that the other receivers that advertise "upconversion" perform similarly?

 

[j_garcia]

Well, no copy protection pretty much eliminates most DVDs, so if that isn't a problem, then I guess you are all set. Yes, due to copy protection I think this will be the case with most receivers. Note that most upscaling players will also only upscale via HDMI not component, they will upscale via component only for non-copy protected items as well.

 

[fannatic]

Why does no copy protection eliminate most DVD's?

I thought copy protection is only an issue when trying to hook a HDCP enabled HD source to a non-HDCP enabled HDTV (i.e. Blu-ray player plugged into an old Plasma TV). HDCP is used to protect High definition content from being copied/distributed/etc...it isn't there to protect standard definition media.

I would think my DVD player, with no HDCP, should not have trouble sending a signal to my TV, even if the signal has been scaled.

Correct me if I'm wrong...this copy protection stuff is crap anyway.

 

[j_garcia]

Hopefully they mean HDCP only and not macrovision which IS on nearly all commercial DVDs.

 

[Davemcc]

That sounds like transcoding, not upconversion then, it is often mislabeled as upconversion.

Yeah, my Denon caught me on that one. Mine will "up/down convert" to or from HDMI, problem is it doesn't de-interlace when it up converts. What makes that a problem is that my TV won't receive interlaced signal over HDMI, so I need to run the extra cable for interlaced video anyway.