HDMI 1.1 versus 1.3

Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Here's the scoop:


By Joseph Palenchar -- TWICE, 4/10/2006

New York — The first HD DVD players will decode all mandatory and optional surround sound formats outlined in the HD DVD specifications, and the players will deliver surround to consumers' existing A/V receivers through digital S/PDIF, HDMI 1.1 and 5.1-channel analog outputs, the HD DVD promotion group said.

Because the players will transcode all of the formats to 5.1-channel PCM with up to 96kHz/24-bit quality, the streams can be transported along with high-definition video via a single HDMI 1.1 cable to the handful of current A/V receivers with HDMI 1.1 inputs, a group spokesman said. Transcoding to uncompressed 96/24 PCM ensures the resulting sound quality will match the quality of the soundtracks in their native form, he said.

The players will transcode all surround formats to PCM for one reason: so they can be mixed by the player with menu sound effects and with optional directors' commentaries, which will reside on the disc in compressed form and be transcoded to PCM, the spokesman explained. PCM mixing will enable menu sounds and directors commentaries to be heard while a soundtrack is playing.

For A/V receivers lacking HDMI 1.1 inputs, the players will feature 5.1-channel analog outputs and will down-mix a 7.1-channel soundtrack to 5.1, the group said.

For consumers who don't want to connect six analog cables to enjoy a 5.1-channel stream, the players will also transcode all streams to DTS 5.1 for transport through a digital S/PDIF output, whose 1.5Mbps bandwidth will limit sound quality to what can be achieved with today's DVD players. Stereo analog outputs will also be provided.

The mandatory decoders that must appear in all HD DVD players are losslessly compressed two-channel Dolby True HD up to 96kHz/24-bit quality; a core 5.1-channel DTS HD lossy stream that's compatible with existing 1.5Mbps DTS 5.1 decoders in A/V receivers; and lossy Dolby Digital Plus at data rates up to 3Mbps, including 5.1 and 6.1 variations. The players will convert Dolby Digital Plus to 5.1- and 6.1-channel Dolby Digital at a data rate up to 640Kbps for playback by existing Dolby Digital decoders.

All HD DVD discs must feature at least one of the three mandatory surround formats.

HD DVD's optional decoders are Dolby True HD with up to 7.1-channel 96/24-quality channels, losslessly compressed DTS HD Master with up to 5.1 192kHz/24-bit quality channels, and all optional variations of lossy DTS HD, including 6.1- and 7.1-channel soundtracks with up to 192kHz/24-bit quality at data rates up to 3Mbps.

The next generation of HD DVD players will likely feature 7.1-channel analog outputs and perhaps HDMI 1.3 outputs. The latter would enable all surround codecs to be transported in native form to future HDMI 1.3-equipped outboard decoders or A/V receivers with built-in decoders, the spokesman said.

HDMI 1.1 is capable of transporting all HD DVD and Blu-ray audio formats in native form except for losslessly compressed DTS HD Master and Dolby True HD, whose 768kHz “frame rates” exceed HDMI's 192kHz frame-rate capability, the HDMI licensing organization previously told TWICE.

One of the first Blu-ray players, Sony's $1,000 model, decodes Blu-ray's mandatory codecs — Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS 5.1 and six-channel 192kHz/ 24-bit uncompressed PCM — for transfer in native form through the player's HDMI 1.1 output and through six analog outputs.

Dolby Digital and DTS also stream through the players' S/PDIF, which also carries six-channel PCM soundtracks after down-conversion to two-channel PCM.

The player doesn't support Blu-ray's optional surround codecs, some of which require HDMI 1.3 outputs for transfer in native form to future outboard decoders or A/V receivers with 1.3 inputs, the company said.

Although some companies have considered modifying the HDMI 1.1 spec to deliver some of the optional codecs in native form to outboard decoders, Sony said it doesn't plan to go off-standard.

The publication of the HDMI 1.3 spec is tentatively set for June.

Panasonic has announced September shipments of its first Blu-ray player, the DMP-BD10, but said it doesn't have details on the device's supported surround formats and A/V receiver connectivity.
Navigating HD DVD, Blu-ray Surround Formats
(Mandatory, Optional In Players)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Buckeyefan 1 said:
Here's the scoop:


By Joseph Palenchar -- TWICE, 4/10/2006
)

Now you will be the official poster to that link with the myriad of questions to come, over and over.:D
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
It would be nice if future players had both a HDMI 1.3 and 1.1 output with internal PCM downmixing capabilites built in.
 
J

JES14

Audioholic
Is the HDMI input on my tv a version 1.1 or 1.3 or does this only matter on the source(DVD).
If my rec. does not have HDMI, will I be able to have discrete 7.1 HD sound through analogue? My rec. has 8 channel input and I have a 7.2 setup but obviously not discrete at this point.
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
JES14 said:
Is the HDMI input on my tv a version 1.1 or 1.3 or does this only matter on the source(DVD).
If my rec. does not have HDMI, will I be able to have discrete 7.1 HD sound through analogue? My rec. has 8 channel input and I have a 7.2 setup but obviously not discrete at this point.
The input on your TV is version 1.1. - 1.3 is not yet available.

If your receiver does not have HDMI 1.3, you will not be able to run discrete 7.1 HD lossless sound. It would be downconverted to to a standard DTS or digital format that's in use today.
 
Buckeyefan 1 said:
If your receiver does not have HDMI 1.3, you will not be able to run discrete 7.1 HD lossless sound. It would be downconverted to to a standard DTS or digital format that's in use today.
You should be able to get it via analogue multichannel inputs. That's one of the "workarounds" DTS and DD are proclaiming in the first gen players.
 
J

JES14

Audioholic
Thanks Clint, good to know my setup is ready for HDDVDBLURAY. All I have to do is blow a small bundle on cables.
 
jcPanny

jcPanny

Audioholic Ninja
First Gen Players

JES14 said:
Is the HDMI input on my tv a version 1.1 or 1.3 or does this only matter on the source(DVD).
If my rec. does not have HDMI, will I be able to have discrete 7.1 HD sound through analogue? My rec. has 8 channel input and I have a 7.2 setup but obviously not discrete at this point.
You won't get 7.1 because the first gen players only have 5.1 channel analog outputs. I think it is a conspiracy to get everyone to buy a receiver with HDMI 1.1 (and another one next year with v1.3) because the analog outputs will probably have crappy D/A converters and only 5 channels.

Buckeye,
Thanks for the post, that clears up everything. :confused:
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
jcPanny said:
I think it is a conspiracy to get everyone to buy a receiver with HDMI 1.1 (and another one next year with v1.3) because the analog outputs will probably have crappy D/A converters and only 5 channels.
At the very least the manufacturers ought to note this shortcoming in HUGE capital letters. Lest we eventually advertise it as such (a conspiracy). Cheers.
 
J

JES14

Audioholic
If that's the case then it will be a looooooooooooooong time til I upgrade. My Denon rec. works great, so why would I need to buy another ? To route my VIDEO cable through it? Not likely, if they will not have HD sound through analogue connections they will lose a lot of potential customers. But really the arrogance of the HD DVD and Blu-ray camps will have them just shooting themselves in the foot right out of the gate.:rolleyes:
 
ironlung

ironlung

Banned
JES14 said:
If that's the case then it will be a looooooooooooooong time til I upgrade.

AMEN

I was hoping to upgrade in '07 I think that's the best case senario. More like '08 or '09 till it gets sorted.


I think I have to pop for a outlaw 7 channel amp and hook up a PC or an "old" 3805/2500 for the short term(2-3 years short:( :mad: :( :mad: )

Do CE producers want my money?
 

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