HDCD Question & Denon DCM-380

[taxman150]

I am in the market for a new cd changer. I already have a Denon 2900, but my wife wants a changer in the system too so she can load up 5 cd's and hit random.

I was looking at the Denon DCM-380 as I can get a refurbished one for a great price at Ecost and it also would allow me to add HDCD decoding to my system as the 2900 does not have it and my receiver (a Yamaha RX-V 2400) does not have it built-in either.

I realize that since my receiver does not have HDCD decoding, I would have to connect the 380 to my receiver via the RCA analog jacks so that I would be using the DAC's of the Denon.

My question is this - the Denon 380 has 20-bit Burr-Brown DAC's. My Yamaha has 24-bit, 192kHz DAC's on all channels. I understand that many HDCD discs are now 24-bit encoded. Since I am using the Denon's DAC's (which are only 20-bit), will I be limited to 20-bit playback when playing 24-bit encoded HDCD's through it or will I still be OK given the fact that the receiver has 24-bit DAC's (although I am not using them)?

If I am limited to 20-bit via the Denon's DAC's, would I really be experiencing a loss of sound quality via the 4-bits?

I hope this is not too stupid of a question and appreciate any responses.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[Mort Corey]

In theory....maybe/probably. I have a 380 but have never found an HDCD disc...least not that I knew was one. I'm running mine through a Denon 3805 and did try the player via both analog and coax and could not tell any appreciable difference on my CD's so just went with the coax....the receiver supprots HDCP anyway.

Mort

 

[mtrycrafts]

I am in the market for a new cd changer. I already have a Denon 2900, but my wife wants a changer in the system too so she can load up 5 cd's and hit random.

I was looking at the Denon DCM-380 as I can get a refurbished one for a great price at Ecost and it also would allow me to add HDCD decoding to my system as the 2900 does not have it and my receiver (a Yamaha RX-V 2400) does not have it built-in either.

I realize that since my receiver does not have HDCD decoding, I would have to connect the 380 to my receiver via the RCA analog jacks so that I would be using the DAC's of the Denon.

My question is this - the Denon 380 has 20-bit Burr-Brown DAC's. My Yamaha has 24-bit, 192kHz DAC's on all channels. I understand that many HDCD discs are now 24-bit encoded. Since I am using the Denon's DAC's (which are only 20-bit), will I be limited to 20-bit playback when playing 24-bit encoded HDCD's through it or will I still be OK given the fact that the receiver has 24-bit DAC's (although I am not using them)?

If I am limited to 20-bit via the Denon's DAC's, would I really be experiencing a loss of sound quality via the 4-bits?

I hope this is not too stupid of a question and appreciate any responses.

Thanks!

Mike

You don't need to use the stereo analog from the player. Go ahead and use the digital cable for all your playback needs, including HDCD. Don't worry about 20 bits or 24 bits. It is mostly for marketing at the consumer level. You cannot hear 20 bit depth and 24 is into the thermal noise.
HDCD has nothing but marketing behind it. Just enjoy the music, that is what you listen to, not the components.

 

[outsider]

I suggest trying it both ways and use whichever sounds best to you.

 

[Rob Babcock]

HDCD claims to get 24 bit resolution, but make no mistake- it's really 16 bits. I really doubt you'd ever have any problems with the sound quality of the DCM-380, especially for casual listening.

There's actually quite a few HDCDs out there, if you look carefully. Usually there's a very small logo on the case. All the Dire Straits & Van Halen remasters, for example, are HDCD encoded.

Microsoft bought Pacific Microsonics a while back (the creator of HDCD), and maybe they'll expand the 'technology' into other areas.

 

[Unregistered]

HDCD is 20 bits. The process they use to turn the 20-bit source into 16-bit for cd is proprietary, although it sounds alot like downsampling with an anti-alias filter applied.

I have all of the Van Halen remasters, which are HDCD, and I don't think they necessarily sound better than other cds mastered straight to 16-bit. Of course, they are extremely loud (compressed) as is the norm with current cd mastering.

 

[Unregistered]

HDCD is 20 bits. The process they use to turn the 20-bit source into 16-bit for cd is proprietary, although it sounds alot like downsampling with an anti-alias filter applied.

I have all of the Van Halen remasters, which are HDCD, and I don't think they necessarily sound better than other cds mastered straight to 16-bit. Of course, they are extremely loud (compressed) as is the norm with current cd mastering.

Thank you (and everyone else above) for your responses.

So am I correct in understanding then that HDCD is really 20-bit, but the cd itself may be mastered at 24-bit - as there are plenty of CD's/HDCD's that say they are 24-bit?

So if that is the case, then the fact that the Denon 380 has only 20-bit DAC's will not have any effect.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thank you (and everyone else above) for your responses.

So am I correct in understanding then that HDCD is really 20-bit, but the cd itself may be mastered at 24-bit - as there are plenty of CD's/HDCD's that say they are 24-bit?

So if that is the case, then the fact that the Denon 380 has only 20-bit DAC's will not have any effect.

HDCD is a CD. It is 16 bits, period. It may be mastered in 20 bits.

 

[Rycher]

 

[Rob Babcock]

Some swear HDCD sounds better, but I've not really noticed a difference to speak of. Playing back an HDCD on a non-HCDC player doesn't really harm the sound, either. IMO it's more of a marketing issue than a sonic one.

 

[rschleicher]

My Toshiba player supports HDCD, and a little red light lights up with an HDCD-encoded disk. I don't notice it lit up on too many CDs - some that come to mind are Chris Isaak's more recent CDs, and the recently-released Neil Young's Greatest Hits CD (single CD from Reprise).

The above-mentioned CDs sound very good to me, but that's probably more a function of the quality of the recording and/or mastering job, than of HDCD. I feed both the analog outputs and a digital output to my receiver, which doesn't (I don't think) support HDCD. Switching between the two inputs doesn't produce much, if any change in the sound quality - and of course this is also comparing two different sets of DACs.

Possibly the biggest benefit of HDCD is that CDs that are marked as HDCD tend to have been carefully mastered, since the engineers involved know that they are supposed to sound good.

Anyone know of a decent white paper on HDCD?

 

[Mort Corey]

More than you ever wanted to know
http://www.hdcd.com/about/whatisHDCD.html

Mort