Has gene ever used wire world cables?

NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
Ok you have made a statement. What is it you are trying to say? That you don't know what you're talking about or that you "THINK" out of the box cables (brand new) and hooked to a new phono stage are going to sound the same 1000 hours later?
What he's saying is that there is no such thing as cable break in. No matter how much you want to say you've heard a difference after 1000 hours, there is literally no proof of this being audible to anyone. If there's a change in the sound 1000 hours later that you're noticing I'd think it would be much more likely attributable to physical/mechanical wear of the cartridge itself, not the wires connecting it. Also, audio memory is notoriously short-lived. The human mind can not accurately recall exactly how something sounded 1000 hours ago and compare it to something you're hearing now. IT CAN NOT.
 
O

OHMisback

Audioholic
Oh ok, as I wet myself laughing.. You guys need to get some better gear, I think. I didn't say any cable I said Tone arm and RtR. We aren't even on the same page. Sorry.

I suppose you just snatch the wire off the spool (laugh) and solder them up right. They null out, you're good. OK your an expert. I'll give you that.. I didn't do that on 150K cables I use to make up for drilling rigs. WE paid attention to the cable, ALL qualified HD mechanics have practiced that for 40 plus years. Where do you think I learned it? Germany in the 80s. Same place I first saw HD dampened stick fuses that actually worked and didn't fail due to vibration..

This ain't 1922, this is 2022, read a newer book. :) No I don't care for DSP. Room treatment FIRST, not last.

I have to go change my dipper. I laughed so hard I pissed myself, THANKS..

I see you use 18" Ultimax. I use a pair of 20cf 60" tall boxes (300lb). 1 12, & 2 15s Ultimax with a 18" passive
I use 12K Behringer. Serious thump after they break-in 200 hours.. Don't break in.. LOL I've NEVER met a trained mechanic that thought otherwise. That is the only standard I go by..
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Oh ok, as I wet myself laughing.. You guys need to get some better gear, I think. I didn't say any cable I said Tone arm and RtR. We aren't even on the same page. Sorry.
LOL I think you need to get a better hold of your odd assumptions. Why are you here at all?
 
O

OHMisback

Audioholic
I thought the question was about cables? Did I miss something? I'm not here to relearn what I know. I'm interested more so in the HT side for now and reading. I already know what I need to know about first year 101 safety, wiring, securement, and vibration control. I'm not sure others do though.. No difference to me..

I'm trying to finish a project I started 37 years ago when I built this place and FINALLY retired to put the final touches on it.. It is a Home Theater Room, now. It was a kids bedroom. 20 and 5 years ago.. LOL NOT now..
My Turn.. I built in 112cf Helmholtz resonators on the front wall with a gear space between them. Closets my behind. That was what they were used for.. LOL NOT NOW..

What are YOU here for? Are you gonna help me or not? :) I'm just getting my feet wet..

I bet YOU, we are more alike than not.. Do you like dogs. How about the X-Files?

I like Mcintosh, Cary and a lot of other gear.. I don't hate anything. I just like some things better than others. Slower women for one. Are we anything alike? :)
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
Oh ok, as I wet myself laughing.. You guys need to get some better gear, I think. I didn't say any cable I said Tone arm and RtR. We aren't even on the same page. Sorry.

I suppose you just snatch the wire off the spool (laugh) and solder them up right. They null out, you're good. OK your an expert. I'll give you that.. I didn't do that on 150K cables I use to make up for drilling rigs. WE paid attention to the cable, ALL qualified HD mechanics have practiced that for 40 plus years. Where do you think I learned it? Germany in the 80s. Same place I first saw HD dampened stick fuses that actually worked and didn't fail due to vibration..

This ain't 1922, this is 2022, read a newer book. :) No I don't care for DSP. Room treatment FIRST, not last.

I have to go change my dipper. I laughed so hard I pissed myself, THANKS..

I see you use 18" Ultimax. I use a pair of 20cf 60" tall boxes (300lb). 1 12, & 2 15s Ultimax with a 18" passive
I use 12K Behringer. Serious thump after they break-in 200 hours.. Don't break in.. LOL I've NEVER met a trained mechanic that thought otherwise. That is the only standard I go by..
Ahh, yes, the common audiophool come back of "you need better gear to tell the difference" even though the best scientific gear will show no difference.

I'm saying that if you think your tonearm cable has audible changes over 1000 hours of use from the tiny signal that is sent through it that you're wrong. I never said cables don't matter, or to just slap any old piece of wire wherever you want, did I? And why are you talking about mechanics? Breaking in heavy machinery or automobiles is not the same as "breaking in" wires or speakers.


Are we anything alike? :)
I doubt it. I'm firmly rooted in reality, where as you seem to be barely hanging onto it.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Ohhhhh...this thread went THAT way? lol Silly me! As someone who holds 250 amps in their hands all day, every day for 30 years now, and who tortures sine waves via inverter tech to perform pretty amazing things, a minor degree in metallurgy (I graduated welding school 6 mos early so took another year course extension), another minor degree in electronics, an electric motor repair/rebuilder before all that, and all associated electrical work, there is not much I don't know about wires, or metal.



Do you work for yourself, or a company that makes these towers for boat manufacturers? Are they for specific customers, or for a particular make/model of boat?
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
It's been going that way for a while now. The following is not aimed at you MrBoat, but at the general direction this thread has been dragged.

I can tell you that where we work, we send MW's of energy (as both RF and electricity) through straight water cooled copper cabling and bus. (Seriously, our electric bill is measured in the millions per month) No doping, no fancy dielectrics, no unicorn sprinkles, no fairy dust, no quantum marketing BS. We're measuring frequencies and energies with much more resolution and sensitivity than any human ear could ever pick up and cable "break in" is not an issue that has ever concerned us nor been observed by us. What plagues us most often is that a cable needs to be reterminated for various reasons.
I read the first page and ran out of time. I have never needed shielded cables and I used to have my whole electronic everything grouped with my audio. PS2, dual subs, TV, fan and anything else that happened to be going on. Workplace is the only place I have needed it. Also have transformer based machines there and 3 phase along with a bunch of other equipment running at the same time.

The owner of my company is a full fledged EE. When I explained to him about cable break-in, he was about to ridicule me over it because he knows I still work on electronics and went to school for it. He doesn't believe me that this is a thing, so I told him to google it and I doubt he ever bothered. He works with national defense/mil stuff and mail sorting machines, among a bunch of other tricky stuff. He thought I was setting him up for some engineer joke, or something, and just gave me 'the look.'

I don't understand how anybody that has used hi-fi audio for any length (nearly 50 years for me) of time, can deny the 'human' break-in vs. measurable equipment performance that otherwise remains constant for not days or months, but years, or decades, even. I get broken-in again every time I turn on my system after I have been away from it for a day, or so, and then just get used to it all over again in a matter of minutes.

Waiting for equipment or cable "break-in" usually means either someone bought the wrong speakers or were not as ready for neutral equipment as much as they thought.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
Do you work for yourself, or a company that makes these towers for boat manufacturers? Are they for specific customers, or for a particular make/model of boat?
I work for a company, but design, plot, draft (full size patterns) cut, cope, fit and weld most everything I build. I have two younger guys working under me, one of which is my son. My boss just lets me go at it and I only see him on Fridays anymore. Have two other welders under me, but they typically work on mass produced parts. Occasionally I let them weld on my projects. I am hoping they pick up on the design/math part of it. Most of what I do are 1-off customs.

 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
I work for a company, but design, plot, draft (full size patterns) cut, cope, fit and weld most everything I build. I have two younger guys working under me, one of which is my son. My boss just lets me go at it and I only see him on Fridays anymore. Have two other welders under me, but they typically work on mass produced parts. Occasionally I let them weld on my projects. I am hoping they pick up on the design/math part of it. Most of what I do are 1-off customs.

Are you in a coastal area like FLA, or some other place where center console boats are common?

Center console makes more sense, as I see more of them.

The Math is tricky for many- Geometry isn't too bad because it's in two dimensions but once they get into three dimensions, it's all 'Analytical Geometry this, Analytical Geometry that...".

What kind of kind of you use for coping- did you make it?
 
O

OHMisback

Audioholic
I'm saying that if you think your tonearm cable has audible changes over 1000 hours of use from the tiny signal that is sent through it that you're wrong. I never said cables don't matter, or to just slap any old piece of wire wherever you want, did I? And why are you talking about mechanics? Breaking in heavy machinery or automobiles is not the same as "breaking in" wires or speakers.
Ok your right, you win. LOL

But I'd doubt I'll be listening to YOUR TT setup.. You're really starting to show what you really don't know or most likely have NEVER experienced. I'm sure you haven't or you wouldn't make that statement.. You need to read and experience more, before saying thing don't exist. Tone arm wiring is very important.
AGAIN not "cables", TONEARM or REEL TO REEL ICs from stylus to preamp or playback head to preamp. Pay attention.

Break-in is break-in. I don't care if we are talking about, a new vacuum cleaner, that's a good example. You don't just turn it on and use it for 2 hours. You probably do. I know better. Unless you're a mechanic or work as one how would you know the difference? Like I said ALL trained mechanics know the difference. Wiring in part of and in some cases where mechanics excel. No different than any other discipline. Some disciplines are encompassed within others. I'm not an electrician BUT I understand enough about it to be VERY safe. My brothers all are in the trades. All retired Now. Electricians, Machinist, Cops, Mechanics, Welders/Ironworkers. 5 of us.

I must admit though I've never been referred to as a fool, about anything. I pride myself in what I've learned and try to share. Seldom do I name call. I'll return that present to YOU if you don't mind.. Thank you very much.

Regards
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Ok your right, you win. LOL

But I'd doubt I'll be listening to YOUR TT setup.. You're really starting to show what you really don't know or most likely have NEVER experienced. I'm sure you haven't or you wouldn't make that statement.. You need to read and experience more, before saying thing don't exist. Tone arm wiring is very important.
AGAIN not "cables", TONEARM or REEL TO REEL ICs from stylus to preamp or playback head to preamp. Pay attention.

Break-in is break-in. I don't care if we are talking about, a new vacuum cleaner, that's a good example. You don't just turn it on and use it for 2 hours. You probably do. I know better. Unless you're a mechanic or work as one how would you know the difference? Like I said ALL trained mechanics know the difference. Wiring in part of and in some cases where mechanics excel. No different than any other discipline. Some disciplines are encompassed within others. I'm not an electrician BUT I understand enough about it to be VERY safe. My brothers all are in the trades. All retired Now. Electricians, Machinist, Cops, Mechanics, Welders/Ironworkers. 5 of us.

I must admit though I've never been referred to as a fool, about anything. I pride myself in what I've learned and try to share. Seldom do I name call. I'll return that present to YOU if you don't mind.. Thank you very much.

Regards
Lol your setups aren't likely great except in your own mind. You do realize a basis here is no wire/cable nonsense as you propose? Love to hear how you've done your proper comparisons....
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
Ok your right, you win. LOL

But I'd doubt I'll be listening to YOUR TT setup.. You're really starting to show what you really don't know or most likely have NEVER experienced. I'm sure you haven't or you wouldn't make that statement.. You need to read and experience more, before saying thing don't exist. Tone arm wiring is very important.
AGAIN not "cables", TONEARM or REEL TO REEL ICs from stylus to preamp or playback head to preamp. Pay attention.

Break-in is break-in. I don't care if we are talking about, a new vacuum cleaner, that's a good example. You don't just turn it on and use it for 2 hours. You probably do. I know better. Unless you're a mechanic or work as one how would you know the difference? Like I said ALL trained mechanics know the difference. Wiring in part of and in some cases where mechanics excel. No different than any other discipline. Some disciplines are encompassed within others. I'm not an electrician BUT I understand enough about it to be VERY safe. My brothers all are in the trades. All retired Now. Electricians, Machinist, Cops, Mechanics, Welders/Ironworkers. 5 of us.

I must admit though I've never been referred to as a fool, about anything. I pride myself in what I've learned and try to share. Seldom do I name call. I'll return that present to YOU if you don't mind.. Thank you very much.
For all intents and purposes in the audio realm Interconnects = cables = wires when it comes to "break in." Your experience with them is just that: your experience. What you think is happening isn't. Since you keep telling me to read stuff, why don't you link me some of these things to read that show me the changes that happen in your tonearm interconnect/wiring/cable after 1000 hours? Go ahead, I'll wait. Once again, a vacuum cleaner is not comparable to a wire/interconnect/cable.

Since you care so much about what I do I currently work in high energy particle physics research and have degrees in both Biology and Engineering Physics. Previously I had worked as a chemist for 15 years before returning to school for Engineering Physics.

I never called you a fool. I said you fell onto the audiophool's comeback of "your equipment isn't good enough" when you try to explain something that isn't there.
 
O

OHMisback

Audioholic
For all intents and purposes in the audio realm Interconnects = cables = wires when it comes to "break in." Your experience with them is just that: your experience. What you think is happening isn't. Since you keep telling me to read stuff, why don't you link me some of these things to read that show me the changes that happen in your tonearm interconnect/wiring/cable after 1000 hours? Go ahead, I'll wait. Once again, a vacuum cleaner is not comparable to a wire/interconnect/cable.

Since you care so much about what I do I currently work in high energy particle physics research and have degrees in both Biology and Engineering Physics. Previously I had worked as a chemist for 15 years before returning to school for Engineering Physics.

I never called you a fool. I said you fell onto the audiophool's comeback of "your equipment isn't good enough" when you try to explain something that isn't there.
So let me understand you. You're using a Denon AVR-X4500H and Song 3s main speakers, DSP with an 18" Ultimax. I didn't read anything about room treatment. That's 50% of the sound. I think I hit the nail on the head. No offence. If you're happy, why on earth, would what I KNOW, bother you? My system sounds they way it does because of what I did, not what you didn't.

Honestly I wouldn't be using a Denon anything for a preamp, Even if I could get it to a point where I could tolerate the SQ, I doubt I'd be happy with it.. I have a few of them here DENON POAs and some OK TTs. The AV and HT stuff is just that. Not for serious playback. Adequate at best for HT. It holds up ok, no complaints with that.. Good while your raising kids, stuff like that..

How about an EEs handbook any publication from 2010 to current. You know the latest stuff they are learning. Not the 1890s stuff. Impressive education. I commend you. I'm just a lowly retired Master HD mechanic. I just had to fix in the field what engineers fixed in a nice clean shop.. I worked with a lot of engineers all right. Mostly German. Smart fellows. I also worked around a lot of sound and civil engineers in LV and all around the Bay Area and west coast 1.

I'll point you to the newer information about Nano Tech (arching). Contact enhancers and what seems to point to cables working and sounding better over time. That's just one. I have to like you to keep spilling the beans.. Besides, are you gonna appreciate what a lowly old mechanic learned. Got any room left UP THERE?

Crap I've forgotten more than I can remember, I've hit the tipping point. LOL More water should help.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
why on earth, would what I KNOW, bother you?
It's not what you know, it's what you BELIEVE that bothers me because it's straight up nonsensical. If you're coming on here thinking people are going to be in agreement with you that your TT interconnect needs 1000 hours to break in you've come to the wrong forum.

Thanks for the links BTW, I'll get busy reading all the information you shared that disproves everything else that is known about cable/interconnect/wire burn in.

I got my EP degree in 2018, so I didn't learn archaic material.

I can see you're firmly entrenched in your beliefs, so unless you want to provide links with non-anecdotal, objective evidence to back up what you're saying I see no reason for further discussion.
 
O

OHMisback

Audioholic
Lol your setups aren't likely great except in your own mind. You do realize a basis here is no wire/cable nonsense as you propose? Love to hear how you've done your proper comparisons....
First I try to never be insulting to anyone. That's the first thing.

If a person finds a piece of gear, cables, or speakers that measure the way they like, there has been a few times they were set up in my one of my shops for a few of us to listen to. Most are gone now over the last 30 years or so.

I test side by side with a switch box and 1 -15 people at different times of the day and night. How would you check a system? That's how WE audition gear, speakers or cables. XLR, RCA or Speaker IC switchboxes with copper or silver traces. I use both. I prefer copper usually for speaker ICs.

I used panels and Helmholtz tuning traps to EQ.

If something was modified or changed, we did a LOT of side by sides. A lot of money was wasted on boutique caps, I can tell you that.. LOL Some well worth it, others. WiMa is perfect.. LOL I'm a tightwad for sure. :)

I also made some killer buy behind impatience. Teflon and silver anything, was usually the issue to.. Rhodium is right up there too. Hard as heck too.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
First I try to never be insulting to anyone. That's the first thing.

If a person finds a piece of gear, cables, or speakers that measure the way they like, there has been a few times they were set up in my one of my shops for a few of us to listen to. Most are gone now over the last 30 years or so.

I test side by side with a switch box and 1 -15 people at different times of the day and night. How would you check a system? That's how WE audition gear, speakers or cables. XLR, RCA or Speaker IC switchboxes with copper or silver traces. I use both. I prefer copper usually for speaker ICs.

I used panels and Helmholtz tuning traps to EQ.

If something was modified or changed, we did a LOT of side by sides. A lot of money was wasted on boutique caps, I can tell you that.. LOL Some well worth it, others. WiMa is perfect.. LOL I'm a tightwad for sure. :)

I also made some killer buy behind impatience. Teflon and silver anything, was usually the issue to.. Rhodium is right up there too. Hard as heck too.
Still not very convincing as to method, sorry. You sound like you waste a lot of time on gear rather than enjoying the content thru the gear....
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
First I try to never be insulting to anyone. That's the first thing.

If a person finds a piece of gear, cables, or speakers that measure the way they like, there has been a few times they were set up in my one of my shops for a few of us to listen to. Most are gone now over the last 30 years or so.

I test side by side with a switch box and 1 -15 people at different times of the day and night. How would you check a system? That's how WE audition gear, speakers or cables. XLR, RCA or Speaker IC switchboxes with copper or silver traces. I use both. I prefer copper usually for speaker ICs.

I used panels and Helmholtz tuning traps to EQ.

If something was modified or changed, we did a LOT of side by sides. A lot of money was wasted on boutique caps, I can tell you that.. LOL Some well worth it, others. WiMa is perfect.. LOL I'm a tightwad for sure. :)

I also made some killer buy behind impatience. Teflon and silver anything, was usually the issue to.. Rhodium is right up there too. Hard as heck too.
So please explain your tt wiring comparisons at 0 hours, 500 hours, 1000 hours, etc. Maybe It was just me pissing on your bloody wire.
 
O

OHMisback

Audioholic
wire burn in.
It's Break-In not burn in. Valves burn in, incandescent bulbs burn up, but cable BREAK-IN.
Breaks, seat and brake-in, not burn it. An engine (not a motor) breaks in, it doesn't burn-in.

If you let anything set it settles. I don't have to be insulting, just informative, what you do with it, is up to you.
No thanks or no need I tried is fine to.. I'd hate to get grass clipping on your side of the fence. :)

Regards
 
O

OHMisback

Audioholic
So please explain your tt wiring comparisons at 0 hours, 500 hours, 1000 hours, etc. Maybe It was just me pissing on your bloody wire.
No. It's cable, not wire. and Caps "TT" Still NO! I'm feeling really underappreciated about all this. :)

BUT in a nutshell, they sound thin, usually boiling highs even in a well treated room. Nothing sounds the same by using a simple break-in LP. Sony on repeat 5/24 then 15 days on a cooker. I listen to a lot of the same cables side by side, one set conditioned one set not.. It's pretty simple to hear. I'm using dual Decware preamps same build to compare with. I haven't in quite a while.. Why should I. I don't sell the stuff. I don't pay very much for it either..

I hook sets in a tape loop, that helps with TT RCAs or any RCA for that matter. I put them in anti static bags too.

Any wire with Teflon and caps with teflon. High voltage boutique caps can take forever to sound correct too. Some never do.
 
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NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
You never try to be insulting, but full on condescension is certainly on the table.

Burn-in/break-in, whatever you want to call it, on audio cables/wires/interconnects, whatever you want to call them, is nonsense.
 
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