Has gene ever used wire world cables?

panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
I would rather be safe than sorry. I have to buy a power cables and speaker wire why not find shielded wires the first time. Is there any normal priced power cables and wiring that comes shielded. Seems like not until u spend over $200 for 8 feet
You aren't being safe over sorry, you're just going to be sorry you wanted your money.

Shielded cables won't do much of anything.
 
S

ssmokeyy

Enthusiast
I'm open to idea's but what I'm not going to do is have metal conduit showing in my room on the lower part of the wall. I have done car audio for over 20 years, I have built other people's theaters. This was my fault that I couldn't make up my mind where I wanted the rack until now. The only option for the wires is to run them the same way to the rack between 6-8 feet before they get to the rack. So maybe I don't shield the speaker wires. Maybe I just shield the power wire and the cat6 that will be next to them.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Wireworld Cable I don't think I've seen Gene mention, he does have some old Kimber Kable speaker cables. I had a conversation with David Salz at Wireworld on some exports to audiophools in Russia, had a disagreement about the documentation he needed to claim back the duty on his imported Chinese wire....I'd never buy anything from Wireworld, tho. Just silly overpriced wire.
I spoke to David Salz too. Strange dude. He tried to convince me that if I drove to his headquarters and set up a proper blind test, I'd be able to identify his speaker cables as "Better" than the competition 100% of the time, yet wouldn't send me a sample to conduct the test at my own place. Ironically, I have some Wireworld cable unopened sitting in my garage for about 4 years. I don't think it's a current model but this thread inspired me to open and test it. I will report back soon. Very expensive product to be sure, hopefully it measures at least as good as 12AWG lamp cord you can buy at Home Depot.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
Morning,
I'm not sure how to ask gene directly but I found this company in Florida that has been making cables for years and there not cheap. These cables look nice and they talk alot about what they use in them like sliver and type of copper. Also they shield every cable. I started looking for power and speaker wire that comes shielded since I need it for my rack build and found this company. Also I talked to a sales manager on the phone for like an hour and he was very friendly and new there info out the gate. Also 80% of there product is made here in the US.
In most cases, there is no reason to shield speaker cables.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
So I have a high risk of noise. Im going to put the rack in the front right corner. I have changed the plan 3 times. The walls have been finished and ready for paint. So there is 8 speaker lines, 2 cat 6 lines, 2 high amp power cables to apc h15 units, front 3 lcr speakers wires. All of these wires have to go the same direction next to each other for 4 feet. Im worried the speaker and power cables next to each other will add noise. Does anyone recommend any shielded wire brands?
WRT "So I have a high risk of noise."
What makes your place risky for injecting noise into the cables?

Four feet is NOTHING. Category cabling has twisted pairs so they reject common mode interference and are often installed with hundreds of feet of various cables running parallel, with no problems. Where you seem to be worried about noise, you can avoid it very easily- NEVER bundle power cords with any other cables and don't fasten low level signal-carrying cables on a wall parallel to power wiring. Hundreds of thousands of installations have been done with various types of cables running parallel in the same area- sometimes, they're bundled, sometimes they're separated by type and bundled and laid parallel in cable management trays/using retainers of some kind. In close to 40 years, I think I have heard an issue with noise caused by speaker cables and they were in a 70V system, with a couple of hundred feet of various cables interlaced over the ceiling in an LDS facility- I never heard how they cured that one, but out of all of the installations I have worked on, that was the only one.

Speaker cabling rarely picks up or adds noise, but in an extremely high powered installation or fixed voltage system, it is possible but only if they're parallel to low level audio cabling that will be amplified and those are almost always shielded anyway and if not shielded, they use twisted pair configuration. Segregate the cables by signal type, bundle them and keep a few inches to a foot-16" between each type. If you can't do this, your cabling needed better planning, not shielding.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
I would rather be safe than sorry. I have to buy a power cables and speaker wire why not find shielded wires the first time. Is there any normal priced power cables and wiring that comes shielded. Seems like not until u spend over $200 for 8 feet
Why do you need power cables? You mean power cords, right?

They won't make a difference. How do you think the manufacturers of high quality audio equipment conduct their tests- using high priced power cords, or the same ones that come with the equipment? How would their equipment meet their test results in the real world if they ship everything with inferior power cords?

You need to stop reading marketing BS and talk to people who work with this stuff for a living.

Oh, wait- some of us DO work with this stuff for a living.

I know someone who owns a recording studio, has taught recording techniques at a local technical college and has worked in audio since the mid-'70s and I asked for his opinion on 'high end' cables. His response was "Do you know what people do at 8PM on a Friday night during a recording session when they realize that they need some kind of cable or adapter?" I answered with "they ask "Where is the closest Radio Shack?". He said "Exactly!".
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm open to idea's but what I'm not going to do is have metal conduit showing in my room on the lower part of the wall. I have done car audio for over 20 years, I have built other people's theaters. This was my fault that I couldn't make up my mind where I wanted the rack until now. The only option for the wires is to run them the same way to the rack between 6-8 feet before they get to the rack. So maybe I don't shield the speaker wires. Maybe I just shield the power wire and the cat6 that will be next to them.
Car audio is different- the power cables carry DC, not AC, and they conduct a helluva lot more current than a standard residential power wire to the outlets. While high current makes a difference, it's also the weight of the conductor that has a large effect- in a car system built for competition or just high power, the power cable could be 2/0 or larger and may feed amplifiers totaling well over 1000W, while a 15A power circuit uses 14ga Romex, BX or separate wires run in conduit. Big difference in the effect of running parallel to power wires- in that case, the recommendation for decades has been to run power down one side of the car and audio down the other, to maintain as much distance as possible. I seriously doubt you would bundle power and audio cables in a car system. I would hope not, anyway.

FWIW- I did car audio for more than 20 years and still work with 12V audio systems on boats.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Morning,
I'm not sure how to ask gene directly but I found this company in Florida that has been making cables for years and there not cheap. These cables look nice and they talk alot about what they use in them like sliver and type of copper. Also they shield every cable. I started looking for power and speaker wire that comes shielded since I need it for my rack build and found this company. Also I talked to a sales manager on the phone for like an hour and he was very friendly and new there info out the gate. Also 80% of there product is made here in the US.
What a f'n scam.

Don't buy that overpriced nonsense, and don't for a SECOND think that this is anything but nonsense.

Rip out your drywall, put conduit behind it, and run the cabling inside conduit if you actually want to do things right. If you are willing to drop thousands on stupid cables which will be visible, it is a MUCH better cost and visual option to run things BEHIND your wall and in conduit from the start.

This assumes you intend to buy $10,000 speakers, McIntosh level gear, and listen at high volumes.

Some information presented on their website is spot on. Like that cable gauge matters. But, it seems that cable gauge vs. cable material is being overly stressed. Copper is cheap compared to silver, and when you get into silver as your speaker wiring material, costs skyrocket for a non-audible improvement. This is critical to understand. Measurable on test equipment, and actually audible to human ears are completely different things and concepts. Just because silver is more conductive than copper, doesn't mean that it is audibly better than copper. 16 gauge silver vs. 14 gauge copper, and you should use copper. In fact, copper is so cheap, you can go to 12 gauge and just see even more 'improvement', though that is likely lost on your ears as well.

I'm not sure what power cables you are running which are packed against the speaker wires, but speaker wiring and 120v power has really never been an interference issue in my 20+ years in the industry. It can be an issue with analog video signals and can be an issue with analog line level audio in a dirty rack. But, so much is entirely digital these days it's crazy. I recently ran audio out of a TV about 100 feet to a rack. Just used the optical audio output from the TV into a cheap DAC and $3 speaker cables and it sounds perfect. Zero noise added/removed when the TV audio is added or taken away from the system. It was shockingly good sounding.

Don't get me wrong. If you are spending tens of thousands of dollars on your theater setup, then spending hundreds on cabling is at least in line with your other spending. I have no doubt it will make you happy. But, if you were to close your eyes and someone were to swap every cable out with Blue Jeans, or decent Monoprice stuff, then you likely would have zero idea what was what. It is, at the end of the day, wasted money that would, and should be, better spent elsewhere.

If the wiring is just the last few feet on the floor to the rack, then as others have said, separate your 120v from the rest. This is industry standard. If not, then the power should be shielded, and preferably in a metal flexible jacket. But, shielded extension cords are out there and aren't outrageously priced.

Spending more for a better metal than copper is a fools mission for sure.
 
Pandaman617

Pandaman617

Senior Audioholic
Just my two cents, I’ve been on this forum for quite sometime and not only has the community always helped me fix issues or setup my system for better performance but it’s claims are always backed by quantifiable empirical evidence. Literally all the guys who commented here are the main ones I would send you to for advice. These guys have the knowledge and experience to help you out. While they’re just suggestions they are based on facts.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
… The only option for the wires is to run them the same way to the rack between 6-8 feet before they get to the rack. So maybe I don't shield the speaker wires. Maybe I just shield the power wire and the cat6 that will be next to them.
The power cords will be the source of noise, as I understand the description of your system. If you shield them, you have no reason to shield the Cat6 or speaker cables.

I searched Amazon for 'shielded power cord'. And I got a list of AC power cords, some of which are actually shielded. Here's a short list of reasonably priced shielded AC power cords:
Unless that first 6-foot-long cord works for you, I'd suggest getting one of the Pangea AC-14 cords.
 
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S

ssmokeyy

Enthusiast
I see where everyone is coming from. I have always ran the biggest wire i can get my hands on. The black speaker wire in the picture is 14awg x 4 to each surround speaker and atmos. https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-113719-Conductor-CMP-Rated-Speaker/dp/B017SDDUPS/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?crid=37DBS2MJ74TZC&keywords=monoprice+nimbus+14&qid=1655820610&sprefix=monoprce+nim,aps,225&sr=8-6.

I have all ready said I drop the ball on my rack plan becuase at first I was going to put it in then hole in the center front u can see in the picture but I hate the idea the center will be in of the gear. So now im moving it to the side corner and have to deal with the cables. U are correct I should demo the wall and start over. Problem is I won't and behind that wall is also concrete pillar on each holding up my fire place upstairs. So if I opened it up I wouldn't get into the corner the wall studs on each side on top of the concrete is only 2 x 2 to save space into the room.
After spending over 20k building the room, another easy more than 20k on gear I didnt think asking about some wires that everyone will see would be this big of a problem for something so small. I get spending f tons on wire is a joke. But when u see the wires u tell me would u rather see zip cord or some nice braided wire.
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Samurai
Plastic braided shielding can be purchased separately. Many hobbyists make their own speaker cables and buy their own plastic 'pants' and braiding to dress them up. The Pangea power cable Swerd posted looks like it already has a nice outer casing. Someone also mentioned plastic tracks to separate power, speaker and data cables. All relatively simple methods of organizing and dressing things up if the cables have to be visible. You can braid each cable or braid cables of the same type together. You can then drill holes in the track and use black zip ties to secure the cables in the track, hiding the cut end. That should make for a clean install.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I see where everyone is coming from. I have always ran the biggest wire i can get my hands on. The black speaker wire in the picture is 14awg x 4 to each surround speaker and atmos. https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-113719-Conductor-CMP-Rated-Speaker/dp/B017SDDUPS/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?crid=37DBS2MJ74TZC&keywords=monoprice+nimbus+14&qid=1655820610&sprefix=monoprce+nim,aps,225&sr=8-6.

I have all ready said I drop the ball on my rack plan becuase at first I was going to put it in then hole in the center front u can see in the picture but I hate the idea the center will be in of the gear. So now im moving it to the side corner and have to deal with the cables. U are correct I should demo the wall and start over. Problem is I won't and behind that wall is also concrete pillar on each holding up my fire place upstairs. So if I opened it up I wouldn't get into the corner the wall studs on each side on top of the concrete is only 2 x 2 to save space into the room.
After spending over 20k building the room, another easy more than 20k on gear I didnt think asking about some wires that everyone will see would be this big of a problem for something so small. I get spending f tons on wire is a joke. But when u see the wires u tell me would u rather see zip cord or some nice braided wire.
You can use a chart like in this article to determine gauge of wire needed for your speakers' impedance/length of run https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/speaker-wire-gauge

I just prefer keeping speaker and other wires out of line of sight myself, find no need to pretty them up but as was mentioned you can do that even with zip cord....
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
There are measurements that show even low level signal interconnects don't need exotic shielding to compete with super expensive audiophile audio myth based ones. For speaker cables, just use charts to determine the appropriate size for the length required, I do prefer those made from copper though, for the obvious reasons.

Here's one for interconnects, speaker cables should be much more forgiving, in terms of shielding:
Recoton RCA Cable Review (Ultra Cheap Cable) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
What a f'n scam.

Don't buy that overpriced nonsense, and don't for a SECOND think that this is anything but nonsense.

Rip out your drywall, put conduit behind it, and run the cabling inside conduit if you actually want to do things right. If you are willing to drop thousands on stupid cables which will be visible, it is a MUCH better cost and visual option to run things BEHIND your wall and in conduit from the start.

This assumes you intend to buy $10,000 speakers, McIntosh level gear, and listen at high volumes.

Some information presented on their website is spot on. Like that cable gauge matters. But, it seems that cable gauge vs. cable material is being overly stressed. Copper is cheap compared to silver, and when you get into silver as your speaker wiring material, costs skyrocket for a non-audible improvement. This is critical to understand. Measurable on test equipment, and actually audible to human ears are completely different things and concepts. Just because silver is more conductive than copper, doesn't mean that it is audibly better than copper. 16 gauge silver vs. 14 gauge copper, and you should use copper. In fact, copper is so cheap, you can go to 12 gauge and just see even more 'improvement', though that is likely lost on your ears as well.

I'm not sure what power cables you are running which are packed against the speaker wires, but speaker wiring and 120v power has really never been an interference issue in my 20+ years in the industry. It can be an issue with analog video signals and can be an issue with analog line level audio in a dirty rack. But, so much is entirely digital these days it's crazy. I recently ran audio out of a TV about 100 feet to a rack. Just used the optical audio output from the TV into a cheap DAC and $3 speaker cables and it sounds perfect. Zero noise added/removed when the TV audio is added or taken away from the system. It was shockingly good sounding.

Don't get me wrong. If you are spending tens of thousands of dollars on your theater setup, then spending hundreds on cabling is at least in line with your other spending. I have no doubt it will make you happy. But, if you were to close your eyes and someone were to swap every cable out with Blue Jeans, or decent Monoprice stuff, then you likely would have zero idea what was what. It is, at the end of the day, wasted money that would, and should be, better spent elsewhere.

If the wiring is just the last few feet on the floor to the rack, then as others have said, separate your 120v from the rest. This is industry standard. If not, then the power should be shielded, and preferably in a metal flexible jacket. But, shielded extension cords are out there and aren't outrageously priced.

Spending more for a better metal than copper is a fools mission for sure.
Well, maybe he will want these, too-

 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
There are measurements that show even low level signal interconnects don't need exotic shielding to compete with super expensive audiophile audio myth based ones. For speaker cables, just use charts to determine the appropriate size for the length required, I do prefer those made from copper though, for the obvious reasons.

Here's one for interconnects, speaker cables should be much more forgiving, in terms of shielding:
Recoton RCA Cable Review (Ultra Cheap Cable) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
I don't know about you, but I'm tired of talking to walls. They don't listen and it's hard to get them to understand why they shouldn't expect different results.

I was never a believer of assuming cables aren't good if they don't have something different from the cheap "here, put this in there so they won't bitch about not getting cables with their $50 CD player" cables and I used to buy cheap audio and AV cables (with composite when that was still used) but when I got my first DVD player, it sounded terrible. I had removed my BetaMax for service before getting that player and seriously thought it had a problem- the cables had been used for the Beta recorder and I never expected much WRT audio quality but with a DVD, it was awful.I then switched to the cables I had used with my CD player, which I made from the bulk cable and ends I was using at the car audio shop I was managing and the difference was like night & day. I was not expecting that.

I still don't assume anything about cables, but I also don't expect to hear what the ads claim.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I don't know about you, but I'm tired of talking to walls. They don't listen and it's hard to get them to understand why they shouldn't expect different results.

I was never a believer of assuming cables aren't good if they don't have something different from the cheap "here, put this in there so they won't bitch about not getting cables with their $50 CD player" cables and I used to buy cheap audio and AV cables (with composite when that was still used) but when I got my first DVD player, it sounded terrible. I had removed my BetaMax for service before getting that player and seriously thought it had a problem- the cables had been used for the Beta recorder and I never expected much WRT audio quality but with a DVD, it was awful.I then switched to the cables I had used with my CD player, which I made from the bulk cable and ends I was using at the car audio shop I was managing and the difference was like night & day. I was not expecting that.

I still don't assume anything about cables, but I also don't expect to hear what the ads claim.
Agreed in general.. I won't use those Red/White wires that come with the DVD players/BR players regardless. Not that I believe they would degrade the "sound quality", but I don't like their look, or perceived build quality. Being so cheap, I would not assume their manufacturers pay enough attention to their QA/QS..
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
Agreed in general.. I won't use those Red/White wires that come with the DVD players/BR players regardless. Not that I believe they would degrade the "sound quality", but I don't like their look, or perceived build quality. Being so cheap, I would not assume their manufacturers pay enough attention to their QA/QS..
I agree. The wire they use on those cables is something like 22ga and is just too small to be taken seriously. Never had an issue with one of those cables, but still.
 
O

OHMisback

Audioholic
I think it's funny that people argue about CABLES. It is not cord or singular wire it is CABLE. If you can't hear a difference, don't pay for the difference. It's as simple as that.

I enjoy good sound and attractive gear with MY cabling. It is wonderful to listen to and even more stunning to look at. As I go blind and deaf, I can at least remember what it looked like and sounded like.

As for the "save your money" crowd or "spend a fortune crowd". I use wonderful cables at a very reasonable price that are as different as night and day visually. I quit using any networks in my cable builds so it's just good materials and how it's put together. IF anyone thinks "technique" isn't important in GREAT cable construction, there is no need to spend money on anything but zip cord and power cords.

Event though they are actually CABLES. Get the BIG stuff. SOOW .9999 OFC copper 600VAC. I have thousands of feet of the stuff. #16/4 - 8/4. Pick the color armor you like, good terminal ends, some shrink tube. Your done..

I also use a lot of OCC/silver ribbon and weaves with teflon covers. Very good prices if you look. The biggest difference in most cabling is the way it's terminated and how the wire was pushed through the die. You just need to pay attention to the minor details, so it adds up to a better build cable. A 50 ton press helps too. LOL

The Helix is another great cable by williewonka. Man that is a good IC

Conduit and AC it has to be single wire X the number of wires you pull OR use flex armor if it meet code. The speaker cables in a conduit? NEVER. Keep it away from AC, transformers and valves (tubes). The orientation of certain pieces of equipment are more important than how they look.. Keep that in mind..

Retired master mechanic. 49 years. OE/3, IMASW. HD drilling and foundational work.

BTW I'm not paid or do I work for anyone. This is my opinion and my only preference is being a Baptist/Mcintosh person from birth. I think it was in my blood. B/MC positive. :)
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I think it's funny that people argue about CABLES. It is not cord or singular wire it is CABLE. If you can't hear a difference, don't pay for the difference. It's as simple as that.

I enjoy good sound and attractive gear with MY cabling. It is wonderful to listen to and even more stunning to look at. As I go blind and deaf, I can at least remember what it looked like and sounded like.

As for the "save your money" crowd or "spend a fortune crowd". I use wonderful cables at a very reasonable price that are as different as night and day visually. I quit using any networks in my cable builds so it's just good materials and how it's put together. IF anyone thinks "technique" isn't important in GREAT cable construction, there is no need to spend money on anything but zip cord and power cords.

Event though they are actually CABLES. Get the BIG stuff. SOOW .9999 OFC copper 600VAC. I have thousands of feet of the stuff. #16/4 - 8/4. Pick the color armor you like, good terminal ends, some shrink tube. Your done..

I also use a lot of OCC/silver ribbon and weaves with teflon covers. Very good prices if you look. The biggest difference in most cabling is the way it's terminated and how the wire was pushed through the die. You just need to pay attention to the minor details, so it adds up to a better build cable. A 50 ton press helps too. LOL

The Helix is another great cable by williewonka. Man that is a good IC

Conduit and AC it has to be single wire X the number of wires you pull OR use flex armor if it meet code. The speaker cables in a conduit? NEVER. Keep it away from AC, transformers and valves (tubes). The orientation of certain pieces of equipment are more important than how they look.. Keep that in mind..

Retired master mechanic. 49 years. OE/3, IMASW. HD drilling and foundational work.

BTW I'm not paid or do I work for anyone. This is my opinion and my only preference is being a Baptist/Mcintosh person from birth. I think it was in my blood. B/MC positive. :)
You're a crackup (crackpot?) with cables, though...what about the seasoning?
 

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