harman kardon vs. pioneer vs. yamaha

N

ndangrd

Audioholic Intern
more specifically...

harman kardon avr240 vs. pioneer vsx-1015tx vs. yamaha rx-v659 (or htr5960).

i'm currently trying out a pioneer vsx-1015tx but i really like harman kardon after enjoying it the last 10 years. the pioneer & yamaha seem to offer more for a similar price. the pioneer appears to put out the most power using the old-fashioned rear panel wattage (hk = 350W, pioneer = 480W, yamaha = 400W). i haven't really found any faults with the 1015 for my needs other than the stupid binding posts which don't accept dual-banana plugs which has temporarily forced me to hook up my harman kardon pa5800.

i know most people recommend yamaha & harman kardon over pioneer, but this 1015 seems to sound as good as any cheaper hk or yamaha i've heard in person...especially in theater modes.

i like harman kardon, was leaning toward yamaha this time, & bought the pioneer...go figure...now i need suggestions after searching extensively.

please post any thoughts or experiences you have...my hk avr25mkII has survived 10 years because i tried out several receivers & listened to your advice back then...thanx...
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
ndangrd said:
more specifically...

harman kardon avr240 vs. pioneer vsx-1015tx vs. yamaha rx-v659 (or htr5960).

i'm currently trying out a pioneer vsx-1015tx but i really like harman kardon after enjoying it the last 10 years. the pioneer & yamaha seem to offer more for a similar price. the pioneer appears to put out the most power using the old-fashioned rear panel wattage (hk = 350W, pioneer = 480W, yamaha = 400W). i haven't really found any faults with the 1015 for my needs other than the stupid binding posts which don't accept dual-banana plugs which has temporarily forced me to hook up my harman kardon pa5800.

i know most people recommend yamaha & harman kardon over pioneer, but this 1015 seems to sound as good as any cheaper hk or yamaha i've heard in person...especially in theater modes.

i like harman kardon, was leaning toward yamaha this time, & bought the pioneer...go figure...now i need suggestions after searching extensively.

please post any thoughts or experiences you have...my hk avr25mkII has survived 10 years because i tried out several receivers & listened to your advice back then...thanx...
Well I use to own a Yamaha RX-V650 then moved up to a Yamaha RX-V757. I was so dissapointed with my 757 that I sold it and bought a Pioneer 1015 and the 1015 is a lot better over all than both the Yamaha 650/757. That is, my 1015 sounds so much fuller and definitely has more real world power. I just recently got to listen to a HK 7300 and that is one bad motha **cker if ya know what I mean. To call it a beast would only begin to scratch the surface. Not even sure how a Yamaha RX-V2600 would stack up against that bad boy. IMHO, the HK7300 will out do many separates out there on the market. The only draw back is that it only has component outputs as opposed to DVI/HDMI. For me, that would be no big deal but for others it may be a deal breaker. My vote goes to the 1015. Hope this helps.:) :) :)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
ndangrd said:
more specifically...

harman kardon avr240 vs. pioneer vsx-1015tx vs. yamaha rx-v659 (or htr5960).

i'm currently trying out a pioneer vsx-1015tx but i really like harman kardon after enjoying it the last 10 years. the pioneer & yamaha seem to offer more for a similar price. the pioneer appears to put out the most power using the old-fashioned rear panel wattage (hk = 350W, pioneer = 480W, yamaha = 400W). i haven't really found any faults with the 1015 for my needs other than the stupid binding posts which don't accept dual-banana plugs which has temporarily forced me to hook up my harman kardon pa5800.

i know most people recommend yamaha & harman kardon over pioneer, but this 1015 seems to sound as good as any cheaper hk or yamaha i've heard in person...especially in theater modes.

i like harman kardon, was leaning toward yamaha this time, & bought the pioneer...go figure...now i need suggestions after searching extensively.

please post any thoughts or experiences you have...my hk avr25mkII has survived 10 years because i tried out several receivers & listened to your advice back then...thanx...

If that Pioneer meets your needs otherwise, processing etc, and you like its sound, nothing more to worry about then buying it:D
 
STRONGBADF1

STRONGBADF1

Audioholic Spartan
All three are nice. If it has all the features I (you) need I would pick the Pioneer from that group. From all I have read it has good power, price and reputation.

Pioneer has a good rep. and gets recomended more often here than HK because of price and the belief that HK has some QC problems. Yamaha and Denon have a very good rep. and gets recomended more often because They put alot of features and power in for the money and there quality seems top notch. HK and Marantz are very well represented and make fine products they just cost a little more.

SBF1
 
S.R. Johnson

S.R. Johnson

Junior Audioholic
STRONGBADF1 said:
All three are nice. If it has all the features I (you) need I would pick the Pioneer from that group. From all I have read it has good power, price and reputation.

Pioneer has a good rep. and gets recomended more often here than HK because of price and the belief that HK has some QC problems. Yamaha and Denon have a very good rep. and gets recomended more often because They put alot of features and power in for the money and there quality seems top notch. HK and Marantz are very well represented and make fine products they just cost a little more.

SBF1
You took the words out of my mouth, I could not said it any better!;)
 
hemiram

hemiram

Full Audioholic
When I sold HiFi stuff, from about 72-83 or so, I had periods where just about every brand had issues for a while. I remember a lot of Pioneer stuff had soldering problems, as did Kenwood. My own personal HK 330a receiver spent months being fixed several times before it was right (It sounded as if the treble was cut way back, intermittently). In the meantime, I came across a deal on the Panasonic SA-6500 for the insane price of 212 plus 10 bucks shipping (Locally, it was 500 bucks), so I grabbed one. When the HK came back and actually was working ok, I sold it and kept the Panasonic, the best built "mainstream" receiver I have ever seen, by far. I ended up getting a bunch more of them, I think 15 in all, and sold them to kids I went to school with for $350, in a matter of days. I had big bucks for a 16 year old kid. I wish I had stayed in the business, but the "quad" thing made it a losing proposition for a while, and I bailed out eventually.

It's only weak spot was those damn slider volume/bal/bass/treble controls, but it took about 10 years for them to start failing. Today, over 30 years later, a friend uses the power amps to run his back surrounds, the tuner, etc still work fine, but the sliders are trashed and even if they could be found, replacement would be a nightmare of a job.

This is just before the Technics brand really launched. The word "Technics" is all over the insides, and I saw in some store in LA a Technics SA-6500 that was identical except for the name.

Check it out, still looks good after all these years..

http://www.vintage-audio.com.ua/index.php?lang=ru&theme=cat&id_b=349


Even the dial lights are original and still work. I wish that they still made stuff that good.

My old Yamaha 2 channel receiver is over 25 years old, and still works great, so I just ordered a Yamaha HTR5860 receiver to replace my Sony that is unable to run 5 speakers at a decent volume level without tripping the protect circuit. Hopefully, I won't be dissapointed..
 
N

ndangrd

Audioholic Intern
well, there haven't been any hk 240's on ebay for quite a few days now...so it apppears i'll give up on that one. i'm not going to spend the same for a 240 when the 1015 & 659 have way more features for the same price.

i only have about a week to return the 1015 if i decide to go that route & there's still no sign of its replacement, the 1016. i was considering waiting for that.

after arranging my mixed-matched speakers into a 7.1 configuration & using the auto-setup, i really do like the 1015 now. watching movies & playing xbox in THX 7.1 is awesome!!! i would have to give that up if i were to get the yamaha.

by process of elimination, it appears i'll keep the 1015 & just enjoy it ;)
 
wire

wire

Senior Audioholic
ndangrd said:
well, there haven't been any hk 240's on ebay for quite a few days now...so it apppears i'll give up on that one. i'm not going to spend the same for a 240 when the 1015 & 659 have way more features for the same price.

i only have about a week to return the 1015 if i decide to go that route & there's still no sign of its replacement, the 1016. i was considering waiting for that.

after arranging my mixed-matched speakers into a 7.1 configuration & using the auto-setup, i really do like the 1015 now. watching movies & playing xbox in THX 7.1 is awesome!!! i would have to give that up if i were to get the yamaha.

by process of elimination, it appears i'll keep the 1015 & just enjoy it ;)
I would have to say HK over the other 2 , High Current power in HK . Take a look at Sunfire :) .
 
jcPanny

jcPanny

Audioholic Ninja
Receiver options

The Pioneer, Yamaha, and HK models you list are all comparable. Pick the one with the features you need and the best price.

For a perfromance upgrade in the same price range, look for a refurbished Yamaha RX-V2500 on ubid or other sites for <$500. Several AH members have been happy with these.

Wire, read the AH sticky thread on the "High current" rating of the HK receiver. It is just marketing.
 
wire

wire

Senior Audioholic
jcPanny said:
The Pioneer, Yamaha, and HK models you list are all comparable. Pick the one with the features you need and the best price.

For a perfromance upgrade in the same price range, look for a refurbished Yamaha RX-V2500 on ubid or other sites for <$500. Several AH members have been happy with these.

Wire, read the AH sticky thread on the "High current" rating of the HK receiver. It is just marketing.
Ahh
I still use the old method of picking up the unit , if its heavy the power supply is good :) .
Where is the sticky ? Cant see it .
Thanks
 
N

ndangrd

Audioholic Intern
jcPanny said:
The Pioneer, Yamaha, and HK models you list are all comparable. Pick the one with the features you need and the best price.

For a perfromance upgrade in the same price range, look for a refurbished Yamaha RX-V2500 on ubid or other sites for <$500. Several AH members have been happy with these.

Wire, read the AH sticky thread on the "High current" rating of the HK receiver. It is just marketing.
i haven't found the sticky either, but i've noticed that the newer hk receivers aren't rated for 4-ohm speakers like the old ones used to be. if that's the case, how can they be considered high current???
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
ndangrd said:
i haven't found the sticky either, but i've noticed that the newer hk receivers aren't rated for 4-ohm speakers like the old ones used to be. if that's the case, how can they be considered high current???
Which old ones? Even the 520, 525 were not rated for 4 ohms. I think you can use them with 4 ohm speakers safely, but they are only rated for 8ohm loads in their specifications.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
wire said:
Ahh
I still use the old method of picking up the unit , if its heavy the power supply is good :) .
Where is the sticky ? Cant see it .
Thanks
True in general but not always, examples of a couple of examples:

Sony ES receivers are very heavy, a STR-DA4ES is as heavy as a AVR635, but few people believe they are as powerful.

Arcam receivers are highly rated for even audiophiles, the top of the line AVR300 weighs about the same as a Pioneer 1015, i.e., less than that of comparable Denon and Yamaha, much lighter than equivalent HK models. The AVR300 is suitable for 4 ohm speakers.
 
wire

wire

Senior Audioholic
PENG said:
True in general but not always, examples of a couple of examples:

Sony ES receivers are very heavy, a STR-DA4ES is as heavy as a AVR635, but few people believe they are as powerful.

Arcam receivers are highly rated for even audiophiles, the top of the line AVR300 weighs about the same as a Pioneer 1015, i.e., less than that of comparable Denon and Yamaha, much lighter than equivalent HK models. The AVR300 is suitable for 4 ohm speakers.
I know , but when it comes to entry level stuff , ive always used that as my 1st measuring stick ( ive picked up some newer Yammy , Onkyo and Denen , for there ratings , i wouldnt waste my money on them ) .
I have a Bryston 4b ( a frikkin tank ) and a Carver TFM 35 . 2 differnt designs and weights . The Carver uses a very different power supply than the Bryston , But both can crank out 250 RMS per channel , the Bryston with some crazy headroom and the Carver with enough to do the job ( both amps sound very different also ) .
I just didnt think that HK has dropped there standards that much , Back in the day H/K was strickly high Current ( or head room ) and went head to head with NAD ( Not like i like the sound of either H/K or NAD ) .
 
wire

wire

Senior Audioholic
mtrycrafts said:
thanks
Is there any test rating on these midend high priced receivers , to find out what they are selling in RMS output and what they acually do . I once seen one somewhere and it was quite shocking . I think in the last one i saw , the H/K was close or on the money and the pioneer eliete beat its number , the rest failed badly . Sony ( not ES ) was the worst , Yammy had some bad showings .
 
wire

wire

Senior Audioholic
PENG said:
True in general but not always, examples of a couple of examples:

Sony ES receivers are very heavy, a STR-DA4ES is as heavy as a AVR635, but few people believe they are as powerful.

Arcam receivers are highly rated for even audiophiles, the top of the line AVR300 weighs about the same as a Pioneer 1015, i.e., less than that of comparable Denon and Yamaha, much lighter than equivalent HK models. The AVR300 is suitable for 4 ohm speakers.
Sony ES is good stuff :) . Ive never seen a AVR635 ( looks like a tank :)) .
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
wire said:
thanks
Is there any test rating on these midend high priced receivers , to find out what they are selling in RMS output and what they acually do . I once seen one somewhere and it was quite shocking . I think in the last one i saw , the H/K was close or on the money and the pioneer eliete beat its number , the rest failed badly . Sony ( not ES ) was the worst , Yammy had some bad showings .
Yes, there are plenty of test data. Many of the following links have been posted, but to save your time, here they are:

I listed their weights as well. The light weight Marantz has impressive test results. The HK AVR330 actually shut down at 25W driving multi-channel 4 ohm loads. In terms of power into 4 ohms, the heavy weight HKAVR630 and NADT753 (45 lbs!) did much poorer than the similarly priced Denon, Pioneer and Yamaha models.

Entry Level

Yamaha RX-V657 (27.5 lbs)
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?article_id=863&section_id=3&page_number=3

HKAVR330 (30.6 lbs)
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/322004163324.pdf

Denon AVR2105 (29.3 lbs)
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/305denon/index2.html

Marantz SR4500 (26.5 lbs)
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/205marantz/index2.html



Mid Level

Denon (38.6 lbs, Yamaha (38.3 lbs), Onkyo (29.3 lbs)
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=1497&page_number=1

HKAVR630 (41 lbs)
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/804hk/index2.html

Denon AVR3805 (37.5 lbs)
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/804denon/index2.html

NADT753 (45.1 lbs)
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/105nad/index2.html

Pioneer VSX-52TX (34.5 lbs)
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/1204pioneer/index2.html

Arcam AVR300 (35.64 lbs)
http://hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/1204gallo/index2.html


Top level
HKAVR7300 (55 lbs)
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/download/harmonkardonAVR7300lab.pdf

Onkyo TX-NR1000 (72.8 lbs)
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/106onkyo/index2.html

Super Level
Denon AVR5805
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/1105denon/index2.html (97 lbs)
 

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