Hard Choice between HK 980 and HK 3490 - Please Help Me!

[Mijoci]

Hello Guys i am new here and this is my first post, sorry for my english but i need an advice.
I need an advice in what to buy. I am truly lover of 2 channel music and i don't know what to chose from those amp's. I will give you now the specifications:

1. Harman Kardon 980 - Integrated Amplifier

Power (FTC) 2 x 80W @ 8 ohms / 2 x 100W @ 4 ohms
HCC (Amps) ±80
Ultrawide Bandwidth @ 1W (+0, –3dB) 10Hz – 170kHz
Discrete Amplifier Output Devices Yes
Weight 12.7kg

On the back says 410W Consumption

Now

2. Harman Kardon 3490 - Stereo Receiver

Power @ 8 Ohms, <0.07% THD 120 x 2
Power @ 4 Ohms, <0.2% THD 150 x 2
HCC (Amps) ±45
Bandwidth @ 1W (+0/–3dB) 10Hz – 110kHz
Discrete Amplifier Output Devices Yes
Weight / 10.5kg

On the back says 310W

Now my dilema is what to choose. HK980 says 2x80W and eat 410W and Stereo Receiver says 2x120W but eat 310W how is this posibily?
And what means HCC Amps, i see that the HK980 say 80 bigger that 3490 who says 45. Should i consider that ? Is HK 980 more powerfull because consumes 410W and HCC amps is rated at 80?? Or should i troust Rated Power specifications wich at the 3490 is 2x120w bigger than the HK980 (2x80W)?
I have a feeling that HK980 is more powerfull than 3490 even the rated power don't say that.
Thank you for reading and i guess that you help me to choose the right choise. I will use the amp/receiver exclusive for music and on the first line is quality and power.

Thank you very much!

 

[Codifus]

Hello Guys i am new here and this is my first post, sorry for my english but i need an advice.
I need an advice in what to buy. I am truly lover of 2 channel music and i don't know what to chose from those amp's. I will give you now the specifications:

1. Harman Kardon 980 - Integrated Amplifier

Power (FTC) 2 x 80W @ 8 ohms / 2 x 100W @ 4 ohms
HCC (Amps) ±80
Ultrawide Bandwidth @ 1W (+0, –3dB) 10Hz – 170kHz
Discrete Amplifier Output Devices Yes
Weight 12.7kg

On the back says 410W Consumption

Now

2. Harman Kardon 3490 - Stereo Receiver

Power @ 8 Ohms, <0.07% THD 120 x 2
Power @ 4 Ohms, <0.2% THD 150 x 2
HCC (Amps) ±45
Bandwidth @ 1W (+0/–3dB) 10Hz – 110kHz
Discrete Amplifier Output Devices Yes
Weight / 10.5kg

On the back says 310W

Now my dilema is what to choose. HK980 says 2x80W and eat 410W and Stereo Receiver says 2x120W but eat 310W how is this posibily?
And what means HCC Amps, i see that the HK980 say 80 bigger that 3490 who says 45. Should i consider that ? Is HK 980 more powerfull because consumes 410W and HCC amps is rated at 80?? Or should i troust Rated Power specifications wich at the 3490 is 2x120w bigger than the HK980 (2x80W)?
I have a feeling that HK980 is more powerfull than 3490 even the rated power don't say that.
Thank you for reading and i guess that you help me to choose the right choise. I will use the amp/receiver exclusive for music and on the first line is quality and power.

Thank you very much!

Since you are a 2 channel guy like me, from those specs I would think that the answer is quite obvious, but I won't tell you

Rather, I will tell you this:

A receiver is a tuner, pre-amplifier, and and amplifier all in one.

An integrated amplifier is a pre-amplifier and an amplifier all in one.

I report, you decide

CD

 

[Mijoci]

1. Thanx for you answer!
2. I guess that you tell that HK 980 is the winner right?
3. But what impact have to the sound those HCC amps 80 on the HK 980? and why the rated power is smaller if this amplifier eat with 100W more and have HCC amps bigger?

 

[j_garcia]

If you don't need the FM tuner or any video switching then go with the 980.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Integrated Amp will have as a rule of thumb better AMPs than receivers.

 

[Jeff R.]

What are you planning to power?? SPeakers??? I have the 3490 and think it is a great unit. It has a ton of power and I am powering a pair of Swans Diva 4.2 towers. I have no complaints.

 

[SJesMe]

Jeff R. ... I'm looking at the 3490 as well. I have heard one repeated complaint: that it that is lacking in the bass department (as though those two subwoofer outputs "should" be used as opposed to being optional). Do you use subwoofers?

Secondly, two people complained that there are no HDMI outputs and therefore they can't get HiDef video/audio from their DVD player?

Could you elaborate on your experience with the 3490?

 

[Mijoci]

First, thanx all for your reply.
The 3490 is definitly a great stereo receiver, yes, don't have bass management, no hdmi, is made for people who don't need fancy things (HDMI 1.3a, DTS-HD, etc) The only thing that make 3490 connected to the digital world is coaxial / optical in. It have a massive power (120W/channel with both channel driven), and people who love this receiver are stereo lovers. In his price range if you want HDMi and all of this you can choose from a lot of options (Denon avr 1610, Onkyo 507, etc) but since i'm 2 channel lover i think that a stereo receiver in the same money will be more powerfull and fine than 5.1 / 7.1, receivers.
If 3490 have HDMI, then will be a little bit strange, since HDMI deliver multichannel music and receiver is stereo. No one i think don;t want to listen DTS downmixed in 2 channel.
So if i want stereo i will buy hk 3490, will be more quality than a 5.1 receiver at the same money - both in stereo mode.

Speaking of right decision for me (3490 or 980) i see that a lot of people declare 980 winner in the terms of quality and power, but can anyone became more tehnical and explain me why 980 consumes 410W and deliver only 2x80W, and 3490 consume 310W and deliver 2x120W? And what "HCC (high current continous?) amps" means? Thanx

 

[Codifus]

..........Speaking of right decision for me (3490 or 980) i see that a lot of people declare 980 winner in the terms of quality and power, but can anyone became more tehnical and explain me why 980 consumes 410W and deliver only 2x80W, and 3490 consume 310W and deliver 2x120W? And what "HCC (high current continous?) amps" means? Thanx

The 980 consumes 410 watts. That's a sign that it has a beefier transformer in it compared to the 3490, so the 980 can deliver more current when the dynamics of the music call for it. The HCC rating bears that out.

Put it this way: the 3490 will go louder, but at its rated output, it will be distorting more and have less reserve to deliver more instantaneous power if the music demands it. The 980, on the other hand, while not going as loud, when it is playing at its rated output and the music demands a bit more oomph, it will deliver.

Basically it comes down to this: do you need all that 120W of power? If 80- watts is plenty loud for you then the 980 will be the better amp.

You should find out how efficient your speakers are. 90db/watt speakers will go loud with less power, and 85 db/watt speakers will suck the power out of your amp if you want to make them go loud


I exxagerrate a little, but I'm sure you get the idea

CD

 

[PENG]

1. Harman Kardon 980 - Integrated Amplifier

Power (FTC) 2 x 80W @ 8 ohms / 2 x 100W @ 4 ohms
HCC (Amps) ±80
Ultrawide Bandwidth @ 1W (+0, –3dB) 10Hz – 170kHz
Discrete Amplifier Output Devices Yes
Weight 12.7kg

On the back says 410W Consumption

At rated output @ 4ohm, efficiency=output/input=240/410=58%, sounds reasonable for a class A/B amp.

Now

2. Harman Kardon 3490 - Stereo Receiver

Power @ 8 Ohms, <0.07% THD 120 x 2
Power @ 4 Ohms, <0.2% THD 150 x 2
HCC (Amps) ±45
Bandwidth @ 1W (+0/–3dB) 10Hz – 110kHz
Discrete Amplifier Output Devices Yes
Weight / 10.5kg

On the back says 310W

That means it's efficiency at rated output into 4 ohms = 300/310=97%, that seems too high for a class A/B amp so it may be of the class D, G or H etc.

Now my dilema is what to choose. HK980 says 2x80W and eat 410W and Stereo Receiver says 2x120W but eat 310W how is this posibily?

The 980's spec seems typical for a class A/B amp but the 3490 seems to be exceptionally high efficiency especially when driving a 4 ohm load. 300/310=97%. That sounds too good to be true unless it is of the high efficiency design such as class D and G etc, in any case BS alert should be turned on untill more information is available!!

And what means HCC Amps, i see that the HK980 say 80 bigger that 3490 who says 45. Should i consider that ? Is HK 980 more powerfull because consumes 410W and HCC amps is rated at 80?? Or should i troust Rated Power specifications wich at the 3490 is 2x120w bigger than the HK980 (2x80W)?

HCC means high current capable. This is almost meaningless because HK tells you the specified 80A is an instantaneous rating but they do not quantify instantaneous so it could be a micro second or millisecond, or more, or less, who knows?

I would guess that the 980 has a larger power supply that allows for higher instantaneous current rating but its continuous rating is still limited by the rating of the amplifier. The 3490 probably has a more powerful amp section (again it may not be of the class A/B design) but perhaps the power supply is smaller, hence lower instantaneous current rating.

I have a feeling that HK980 is more powerfull than 3490 even the rated power don't say that.
Thank you for reading and i guess that you help me to choose the right choise. I will use the amp/receiver exclusive for music and on the first line is quality and power.

I think you are right. I would say the 3490 has higher continous power rating based on the published specs, but the 980 should feel more powerful for music listening as it most likely has much better dynamic power, especially if you have speakers that are difficult to drive. For music listening it is more important to have higher dynamic power capability anyway.

 

[Codifus]

.........
The 980's spec seems typical for a class A/B amp but the 3490 seems to be exceptionally high efficiency especially when driving a 4 ohm load. 300/310=97%. That sounds too good to be true unless it is of the high efficiency design such as class D and G etc, in any case BS alert should be turned on untill more information is available!!

Good call on the efficiency calculation! There was something nagging me about the 3490 with its greater power but also higher distortion. Your efficiency calculation hit the nail on the head in exposing just what type of amplifier it probably is.

Thanks!

 

[Mijoci]

Thanx guys for your detailed advices.
So i declare 980 Winner!
Now i have reading the HK 980 manual and i want to make sure that i choose the right impendance for speakers.
HK 980 support 2 pairs of speakers. In the manual and on the amp back says 8 Ohm minimum (in case i would listen to 2 pairs of speakers). This won't happen.

Now in the case of 2 speakers (1 pair) on the back of the amp says 4 ohm minimum.

In the specifications say: 2x80W - 8 Ohm and 2x100W 4 Ohm.

It's ok to match the amp with Jamo s718 who have 6 Ohm impendance (sensibility 92dB)? Or should i choose 4 or 8 ohm speakers ? With Jamo s718 i would have 90W i guess?

 

[Codifus]

Thanx guys for your detailed advices.
So i declare 980 Winner!
Now i have reading the HK 980 manual and i want to make sure that i choose the right impendance for speakers.
HK 980 support 2 pairs of speakers. In the manual and on the amp back says 8 Ohm minimum (in case i would listen to 2 pairs of speakers). This won't happen.

Now in the case of 2 speakers (1 pair) on the back of the amp says 4 ohm minimum.

In the specifications say: 2x80W - 8 Ohm and 2x100W 4 Ohm.

It's ok to match the amp with Jamo s718 who have 6 Ohm impendance (sensibility 92dB)? Or should i choose 4 or 8 ohm speakers ? With Jamo s718 i would have 90W i guess?

Since you will have only one pair of speakers, the 980 will drive your Jamo s718s fine. It's always good to have sensible speakers

CD

 

[PENG]

Thanx guys for your detailed advices.
So i declare 980 Winner!
Now i have reading the HK 980 manual and i want to make sure that i choose the right impendance for speakers.
HK 980 support 2 pairs of speakers. In the manual and on the amp back says 8 Ohm minimum (in case i would listen to 2 pairs of speakers). This won't happen.

Now in the case of 2 speakers (1 pair) on the back of the amp says 4 ohm minimum.

In the specifications say: 2x80W - 8 Ohm and 2x100W 4 Ohm.

Not that it matters much but the manual for the 980 manual says 2X120W 4 ohms at <0.3% THD.

http://www.harmankardon.com/resources/Brands/harmankardon/Products/ProductRelatedDocuments/en-US/OwnersManual/om_hk980_English.pdf

 

[PENG]

Thanx guys for your detailed advices.
So i declare 980 Winner!
Now i have reading the HK 980 manual and i want to make sure that i choose the right impendance for speakers.
HK 980 support 2 pairs of speakers. In the manual and on the amp back says 8 Ohm minimum (in case i would listen to 2 pairs of speakers). This won't happen.

Now in the case of 2 speakers (1 pair) on the back of the amp says 4 ohm minimum.

In the specifications say: 2x80W - 8 Ohm and 2x100W 4 Ohm.

Not that it matters much but the manual for the 980 manual says 120W 4 ohms at <0.3% THD. Where did you get the 100W figure from?

http://www.harmankardon.com/resources/Brands/harmankardon/Products/ProductRelatedDocuments/en-US/OwnersManual/om_hk980_English.pdf

 

[Mijoci]

I get 2x100 from http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-GB/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=HK 980/230&accT=1&tsT=0&ovT=1

And many many sites rated this product at 2x100. Strange!

 

[M Code]

Big $ cost difference between those models..
Kinda like comparing a Ford Fusion to a Ford Shelby, for max performance get the integrated amplifier...

Just my $0.01..

 

[PENG]

I get 2x100 from http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-GB/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=HK 980/230&accT=1&tsT=0&ovT=1

And many many sites rated this product at 2x100. Strange!

It could be that in the UK the lower number is based on at lower THD level, again 20W does not make much difference.