H264 HDTV on DVD...

[8118]

Image 1 : HDTV encoded with H264

Image 2 : HDTV encoded with MPEG2

can you tell the different? I cant...

So, what is so special about H264 then?

H264 is a new video digital encode developed by ITU-T VCEG and ISO/IEC MPEG (JVT：joint video team).

The biggest advantage of H264 is its able to provide high resolution image with lower size. For a 2 hours 1080P movie, normal MPEG2 will need about 15G to keep, which is not fit in a single DVD (that why we need HDDVD or BD), but with H264, the size reduces to just about half of the MPEG2...and most important thing is .... image just as good as MPEG2..

ok, lets go for some shows :

Batman Begins

images were captures from movie trailer. it's 1080P format, trailer is about 2 mins 24 s, and file size is about 148mb, calculated from that, 2 hours movie will just need 7Gb..... single DVD can handles that...

 

[8118]

continued...

Kingdom of Heaven

Trailer format is 720P, 2'40' and size 119Mb, 2 hours movie only need about 5Gb.

want more, go to www.apple.com

Batman begins :
http://images.apple.com/movies/us/hd_gallery/gl1800/1080p/batman_begins_1080p.mov

Kingdom of Heaven :
http://images.apple.com/movies/us/hd_gallery/gl1800/kingdom_of_heaven_m720p.mov

all trailer are quick time format, don forget to upgrade your quick time player to enjoy the trailers...

 

[racquetman]

H.264 does more than reduce the file size - hopefully

H.264 (let's call it MPEG-4) does more than reduce the file size. All you did was capture screen shots. There are a lot of problems that plague MPEG-2. Motion artifacts, jaggies, etc. . . MPEG-4 addresses a lot of these issues and hopefully does a better job with complex moving video. Moving being the key here. Compression will always cause problems, but if they can be partially accounted for while at the same time using less information (more compression), well then you've made progress. Also you need data space for multiple soundtracks and multiple languages along with any extras for added value. If you can fit all this stuff on one disc that's probably going to be a big money saver for everyone.

 

[Jedi2016]

Very small screenshots at that. If you want to post what the difference really is, you'll need to do so with full-resolution screenshots. That means 1920x1080 for the HD stuff. Shrinking it down to a pathetic little 500xwhatever TOTALLY defeats the purpose.

And, in order to really show it off, you'll need to capture something that's H.264 from disc. Just like the rest of the stuff on Apple.com, even the HD stuff is much more compressed than what it would be on disc. So even that's not a good source of comparison. And the idea that HD films will fit on a single DVD is ludicrous.. technically, they would.. and technically, I can fit a DVD film onto a single CD, but I'd suffer the same problem.. it would look like total crap on a stick. If that sort of asstastic video is what you're after with the next generation of discs, you be my guest.

Now that I think about it, there is no way to get a true comparison yet. Not until the films actually start being released on HD discs.

 

[8118]

to be more accurate, H264 should be called as MPEG4 , part 10, a latest technology under MPEG4 and different from previous MPEG4.

i agree we have to wait till the "real" HD disc to be released before we can make any final conclusion.... but when? and don forget, H.264 has been ratified as mandatory in both the HD-DVD and Blu-ray specifications for High Definition DVD.

technically and practically, the MPEG4, part 10 really does a better "video compression" than MPEG2, in term of size and without sacrifire the image quality, a statement or comparision of "put a DVD movie into a cd" just does not make any sense here...you are looking backward...

but anyway, it's still a very long road ahead before anything HD disc comes into our house, what will it really be? just wait and see...

wanna see the real 1080P image, just go to the website, download the files and enjoy them, make sure your hardware support them...yes, you need a good machine to perform the best...if you experience any problem or bad quality, maybe you need to upgrade your machine, nothing to do with the format..

 

[racquetman]

I guess you're banking on 1 or both formats succeeding

We can call this video format anything we want (H.264, MPEG-4 part 10 AVC, FRExt), but to the general public (read majority, and majority unfortunately rules) this doesn't mean anything. You're original point I believe was that there isn't much difference between MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 part 10. Well guess what - to 99% of the DVD watching public, I'm sure they couldn't tell the difference one bit because they aren't looking for it. Why aren't they looking for it? My guess is that they are so used to horrible NTSC video quality that when they see 480p coming at them on DVD, it's like video nirvana. They don't see flaws, they just see a great picture compared to television. Of course those of us who see HDTV or keep up with the new video technologies see the potential for improvement, but we are the minority. Here's a test. Go randomly question 10 people and see how many know what Blu-ray or HD-DVD is. Maybe 1 or 2 have heard of it would be my guess. Now ask them what video codec DVD uses primarily and what the possible video codecs are for the blue laser formats (picture a lot of head scratching). My point is that there is no guarantee either of these formats will succeed, and it sure won't matter whether the video codec is MPEG-4 part 10 or MPEG-2 or a WMV version (VC-1 or VC-9). By the way, just because a spec is mandatory doesn't mean you have to use it. It just means that any hardware must be able to read that spec. With Microsoft formally teaming with HD-DVD recently, one would think that they would push hard for their VC-9 spec (which is also mandatory). That could be an interesting side bar. Anyway, like you said - Just have to wait and see!!

 

[8118]

We can call this video format anything we want (H.264, MPEG-4 part 10 AVC, FRExt), but to the general public (read majority, and majority unfortunately rules) this doesn't mean anything. You're original point I believe was that there isn't much difference between MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 part 10. Well guess what - to 99% of the DVD watching public, I'm sure they couldn't tell the difference one bit because they aren't looking for it. Why aren't they looking for it? My guess is that they are so used to horrible NTSC video quality that when they see 480p coming at them on DVD, it's like video nirvana. They don't see flaws, they just see a great picture compared to television. Of course those of us who see HDTV or keep up with the new video technologies see the potential for improvement, but we are the minority. Here's a test. Go randomly question 10 people and see how many know what Blu-ray or HD-DVD is. Maybe 1 or 2 have heard of it would be my guess. Now ask them what video codec DVD uses primarily and what the possible video codecs are for the blue laser formats (picture a lot of head scratching). My point is that there is no guarantee either of these formats will succeed, and it sure won't matter whether the video codec is MPEG-4 part 10 or MPEG-2 or a WMV version (VC-1 or VC-9). By the way, just because a spec is mandatory doesn't mean you have to use it. It just means that any hardware must be able to read that spec. With Microsoft formally teaming with HD-DVD recently, one would think that they would push hard for their VC-9 spec (which is also mandatory). That could be an interesting side bar. Anyway, like you said - Just have to wait and see!!

I agree with you that we are the minority whose follow the development of this, and guess what, many majority out there still watching TV, some even vcd....that why I am talking about this in this forum, hoping some guy like you (really knows lot about this) come and share your points.

I am just a normal consumer, and I love movie, any good development (xspecially those can give me more, but not required me to spend more), I am happy to follow. My concern here is, looks like HDDVD or BD will be the next generation of "movie disc", but we don know when (although Panasonic oredi started to produce some BD product) and we can expect we have to pay very high cost if you wanna be the "product innovator - those buying any new product at first" and like you said majority out there still watching DVD, if any new technology just able to fit a HD movie (720P, 1080i or 1080P) into current DVD, why not? Producton cost of DVD is much much cheaper than BD or HDDVD, and DVD is everywhere now.

HDDVD vs BD, we will become the loser at last with putting 2 different players below our TV...

 

[REWJR]

MPEG4 vs VC-1

Then why did Toshiba ( HD-DVD ) strike a deal with MS ( VC-1 codec ) .

I for one have seen the VC-1 in action with 720P ( 7-9 Mbs easily fitting 2 hour movie on RED laser DVD ) and 1080P files stunning ...

The WHAMO boys who were responsible for all the massaging of MPEG2 over the years have now been given the same responsibilty to tweak VC-1 ...

Think also XBOX 360 ...and hybrid disks with 480i version one one side and 1080P on the other allowing blockbuster to carry just one inventory a huge advatage..

 

[dagaul]

I agree with you that we are the minority whose follow the development of this, and guess what, many majority out there still watching TV, some even vcd....that why I am talking about this in this forum, hoping some guy like you (really knows lot about this) come and share your points.

I am just a normal consumer, and I love movie, any good development (xspecially those can give me more, but not required me to spend more), I am happy to follow. My concern here is, looks like HDDVD or BD will be the next generation of "movie disc", but we don know when (although Panasonic oredi started to produce some BD product) and we can expect we have to pay very high cost if you wanna be the "product innovator - those buying any new product at first" and like you said majority out there still watching DVD, if any new technology just able to fit a HD movie (720P, 1080i or 1080P) into current DVD, why not? Producton cost of DVD is much much cheaper than BD or HDDVD, and DVD is everywhere now.

HDDVD vs BD, we will become the loser at last with putting 2 different players below our TV...

I apologise if this i off topic but I have a movie encoded in h264/x264 I am unable to view it in full streaming, the video is in slow motion, I am on win98se and 312MB ram, anda 500mhz cpu, is there a program out there that can help me?

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[Jedi2016]

I apologise if this i off topic but I have a movie encoded in h264/x264 I am unable to view it in full streaming, the video is in slow motion, I am on win98se and 312MB ram, anda 500mhz cpu, is there a program out there that can help me?

Program? No. Your computer is far too slow to view HD footage. I've got an Athlon 2600 with 512MB RAM and I can't even view HD footage at full speed.