Grayscale Calibrations

steve · Mar 17, 2004

After our ISF training, we decided to update our grayscale calibration article to make sure it was accurate. Please feel free to read it and comment in this section. We welcome your opinions on this article.

Grayscale Article

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 18, 2004

I find it intriguing that a vast improvement was noticed in detail, sharpness and overall resolution from the calibration, given all the settings and equipment were the same before / after.

Looking forward to seeing the list of qualified technicians who are capable of top notch results!

(please don't forget your friends in Canada, we have tv's too!)

petermwilson · Mar 18, 2004

Hi,
I really hope the ISF Calibration article is a popular read to be followed by investigation to be followed by a calibration performed by a recommended and certified ISF tech.

Yup I'm an early adopter. one that paid $7000cdn for a Tosh 65H80 back in Oct 2000.  Part of that price was $600cdn for an ISF calibration.  I'm going to say upfront that Grayscale is where it's at but what I was looking for was head and shoulders above that and infact was performed by an ISF'r who travelled from Calgary to Toronto to work on about a dozen sets in Feb 2001.  
The reason I mention this is that aside from Grayscale, there were tweaks that were available that my dealer (who had an ISF guy) was unwilling to touch.

I know you DIY guys have saved yourself a ton of money and it's been a labour of love putting to-gether your HT but AVIA and DVE are great and can and are often part of the kit, but to really do grayscale properly you need the trained hands and the EXPENSIVE diagnostic equipment that these guys pay for by doing a multitude of setups.

Anyway, I had a tuneup done (by the same fellow who again was in Toronto from Calgary todo 34 sets)) in Oct and was pleased to find that the settings hadn't wandered very much but I had changed to a HD cable box and a different dvd player  now had an SDI connection and was going through a computer PCI card video scaler so some tweaking was done to optomize the two component inputs for the different equipment, and it showed.

The picture quality of my HT is very important to me and I knew I couldn't achieve what I wanted with only over the counter products so I made the ISF investment (not expenditure), and as part of a HT club in my area, I've seen some beautiful setups but I wouldn't trade PQ with anyone.

Peter m.
PS One of the most time consuming tweaks was the removal of the reflective and protective outer screen as an electric screwdriver was forgotten back in Calgary.

pam · Mar 18, 2004

Hi

It should be possible to rent those calibration equipments.

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 18, 2004

yes, it may be possible to rent those, but I would expect there would be a little more to it than just renting one and away you go...

that's why they make these guys acheive ISF certification...

As wishful as the thought is to do it yourself.....

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 18, 2004

it costs 600 bones canadian for an ISF technician to come in and do just some of the tasks they listed in that grayscale article, or all of them?

Is there anything they skipped?

wow 600 bucks   :S

pam · Mar 19, 2004

ThA tRiXtA : Is there anything they skipped?

Calibration is much more than Gray scale (takes two or three hours). For 600 $ you should get all of the above and more (a full 8 to 10 hour day).

Basic Calibration should include:
- Overscan;
- Color Temperature;
- Gray Scale calibration;
- Front panels controls: contrast, brightness, color, tint,hue.

Also besides the Gray Level, your ISF should include:
- Disable SVM;
- Focus (RPTV);
- Digital convergence;
- Dynamic convergence;
- Display Geometry.

Optionally, you could include:
- speaker placement;
- speaker level.

Also for projectors you might want to do more than one aspect ratio: 16:9 and 4:3 (although 4:3 are not DTV).

Some of these are done only with projectors/RPTV.

petermwilson · Mar 19, 2004

Hi,
The work I had done was performed by Michael TLV the list of his and other ISF'rs services and pricing stuructures of some are available at www.keohi.hdtv.com or something  googelish similar.

Grayscale combined with a couple of other fundimental adjudtments are the foundation of the calibration.  Other items may be desireable to some but are outside of the basic package.  Reversal or removal of protective screen was a tweak and not fundemental when I had my set done as an example.  

I don't know where it stands in 2004.  I was present while the work was being done and it took an honest 6hrs by someone who had done it many times before.

From what I understand many of the newer sets (front projectors included) are being advertised as ISF freindly which may mean easier access to service menus and the like and since time is money it may positively affect pricing, I really don't know.

I may have mentioned that part of my HT group have $100,000 gorgeous cosmetic looking packages with the highest end both video and audio components. (speakers whose quality and size would be compared to a small NEW car).  

Some of these guys have not had 2 display devices to-gether, (PJ and DVD) long enough to make calibration practical.  
I really believe though that if they could decide on the final package and have it ISF'd, their equipment would be frozen in time for a couple of years and any addition would'n't be allowed in unless it was married to the other components.

One of them is a perfect candidate for a HAA audio calibration but you can't touch and feel it so it's not tangible.

Don't get me wrong I've told them my opinion to their faces in as tactful a way I can.  What it comes down to is its my passionate opinion and its their money.  And as they sit, their systems are far from being disastors.  

A bit boomey  in places (for my tastes) but far from a write off.  For film their actually very good.  It's when we start getting to the HIREZ music mltich  that more is expected.

Anyway we all want to go to heavan but not at la carte' pricing and if grayscale is the extent of ones desires I'm sure the local members of ISF have a pricing stucture that
's designed to be fair.

I think even the big box stores have contacts and if push comes to shove I can probably help out a little.  I'm actually the one that organized Michael TLV's Feb 2001 trip to Toronto, since I'm a project mgr in corporate and commercial interiors it's not much of a stretch but most of these guys are pretty organized on their own.

If your about to buy a display unit, please budget for a few hunderd dollars for a proper grayscale as part of the price.

Peter m.

petermwilson · Mar 19, 2004

Hi Pam,
Historically aside from the expanded fundimentals that youve mentioned the price has included 1 or 2 component inputs (dvi inputs were not De Rigeur) when I bought.

There will always be somenew input HDMI maybee.  I presently have SDI out from the dvd to SDI into the scaler to DVI out to component transcoder on the vid card.  Anyway their always throwing some new curve at you.

If you would like tobe included in the Sept visit that goes to MTL.  Let me know.

Peter m.

bunmi kayode · Mar 19, 2004

I am excited that you will publish the links to ISF certified technicians. I look forward to having my RPTV calibrated.

Can you publish an estimated fee schedule for calibration? For example, Grayscale Calibration for Sony KP46WT510.

Ft. Lauderdale, Fl.

petermwilson · Mar 19, 2004

Hi,
If you Google "Imaging Science Foundation Home Page" you will, amoung other things, find links for technicians by region.

You may have one right in your neighbourhood who you could call and get specifics from. As you've already indentified having the model and make of your set handy when you speak to him/her is very important.

I was looking at the specs for a few tvs last year and I noticed some models were identified by the manufacturer as being ISF friendly.  Just four years ago these people were not looked upon as positively by many of the makers.  I've noticed also that ISF takes a full page advertisment in many of the A/V periodicals and indentify tech's by geographical area.

Peter m.

pam · Mar 19, 2004

petermwilson : Hi,
The work I had done was performed by Michael TLV the list of his and other ISF'rs services and pricing stuructures of some are available at www.keohi.hdtv.com or something googelish similar.

The site Peter was talking about is: Keohi

Price for everything I wrote above was around 500$ CAD (50$ for speaker, 300$ for Basic Calibration). Some people may cost more and some may cost less. As I am an expensive computer specialist and I have seen what you can get for less, I would recommend getting a very good specialist. Also talk with the guy who is going to do your calibration before hiring him.

Also look at Keohi (ISF calibration on the left of the page) for getting more info on prices and calibration performed.

RLA · Mar 20, 2004

A major calibration should also include
Astigmatator Adjustment (most never do this)
Raster Centering (If available)
Proper Lense Angle Focus Alighnment
Focus block adjustments (pot adjustment  tweaks)
Gain and Bias Adjustments
and offer client  other services and tweaks like
Lense disassembly and cleaning
and Installation of Duvetyne

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 20, 2004

so the individuals listed on the keohi website as ISF technicians are reputable people to come and calibrate your system?

Rob

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 20, 2004

what is the "disable svm" thing that Pam was talking about above?

how do these tweaks fare out on an LCD projection, such as my tv shown HERE

What can be done to tweak this tv? Any thoughts on if it is worth it or not are appreciated.

petermwilson · Mar 20, 2004

Hi,
I think its scan velocity modulation but the keohi site has a forum where actual ISF techs answer your questions.

Peter m.

petermwilson · Mar 20, 2004

Hi RLA,
The installation of the duvetyne is a time consuming thing which at the rates these guys charge you might want, (and can since it's more labour than technical) do yourself.

Peter m.

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 20, 2004

whats duvetyne?

RLA · Mar 20, 2004

"Hi RLA,
The installation of the duvetyne is a time consuming thing which at the rates these guys charge you might want, (and can since it's more labour than technical) do yourself."

Absolutely you can DIY the duvetyne as long as you are careful and have the know how to do it  It is a time consuming process an patience and careful hands are a must for the install
http://setshop.com/default.php?cPath=4_9_31

pam · Mar 22, 2004

ThA tRiXtA : so the individuals listed on the keohi website as ISF technicians are reputable people to come and calibrate your system?

Hi Rob

I would trust ISF calibrators from Keohi. I trust very much people who are enough comfortable about their ability that they share their 'secrets'. This is what these ISF calibrators are doing in their Keohi site. Basically, ISF calibrators is a minimal qualification. IMO these people seems to be good among ISF calibrators.

If they are in your town, it could be good to ask them to calibrate your system.

Also you could go and look at Home theater spot site but to get to some of their deepest secrets you have to pay a membership.

Duvetyne is a black material that you put on the inside walls and floor your RPTV (not on the mirror neither on the screen). Cuts all reflexions.

Grayscale Calibrations

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