Got my mini DSP today not sure what filter type to use....

  • Thread starter cameron paterson
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
I got a mini DSP 2x4 today. I like the Butterworth 48db/octave filter on the subsonic filter (HPF) set at 17hz. But which filter should I use for the low pass at 80hz?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Aren't you using the crossover in the avr already? No need to add another filter (outside of the protective one for the sub)...
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
so just run the subsonic filter? Should I run it at 48db/octave butterworth? My sub is tuned at 20hz should I cross over @ 20Hz or somewhere around 17Hz?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
so just run the subsonic filter? Should I run it at 48db/octave butterworth? My sub is tuned at 20hz should I cross over @ 20Hz or somewhere around 17Hz?
You may say that sub is tuned to 20 Hz, but you can't tune that sub driver to 20 Hz. You can't tune below 27 Hz, no matter what your program says.

So to stop decoupling from the box the best plan is to roll off at 25 Hz second order. LR or Butterworth.
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
Its Fs is 20Hz! And its super loud at 20hz with no subsonic filter! You're wrong its tuned fine at 20hz trust me come have a listen! I put it in a 4ft3 box sealed and produces much deeper and louder sound with my ported box. Don't be jealous that you cant find my subwoofer anywhere anymore. Best subwoofer in the world tuned @ 20hz with 2500 Crown amp watts powering it!
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
A sealed enclosure with this sub will never have as powerful bass as my ported box with my 2500 watts!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Its Fs is 20Hz! And its super loud at 20hz with no subsonic filter! You're wrong its tuned fine at 20hz trust me come have a listen! I put it in a 4ft3 box sealed and produces much deeper and louder sound with my ported box. Don't be jealous that you cant find my subwoofer anywhere anymore. Best subwoofer in the world tuned @ 20hz with 2500 Crown amp watts powering it!
Yes, but F3 pretty much always ends up a little bit above Fs.

No matter how you calculate the T/S parameters of your sub driver, the absolute lowest F3 is 27 Hz. The reason being is that the driver has above average sensitivity for a sub driver. There is an inverse relationship between flux density and bass extension. So they made a reasonable trade off between bass extension and spl. There is nothing wrong with an F3 of 27 Hz, with room gain there will almost always be some added extension.

Second order means a roll off of 12 db per octave.

I certainly do not covet your sub driver.

This is the FR of my integated left and right full range triamped speakers.



Now the Fs of the four bass drivers is 20 Hz. Again the calculated Fs of the aperiodically damped TL bass lines is 27 Hz. But you can see that in room measurement shows good extension to 20 Hz from room gain.

However these are true reverse tapered aperiodically damped transmission lines that roll off second order 12 db per octave below F3, rather then fourth order, 24 db per octave of a reflex ported enclosure like your sub.

The measurements were taken from this speaker. No sub is required.

 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
check winisd with 7.3ft3 and tuned at 20hz. It models perfectly with an f3 of 22Hz
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
111.6db @ 15Hz, 119db @ 20hz, 121db at 30Hz. with my 2500 watt Crown amp.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
111.6db @ 15Hz, 119db @ 20hz, 121db at 30Hz. with my 2500 watt Crown amp.
That is what I would expect with room gain. I bet F3 would be 27 Hz or close outside.

Since 20 Hz seems to be the 3db point in the room, then put the high pass filter at 20 Hz. Although under domestic conditions I doubt a high pass filter is really necessary. However since you can't get another sub driver, better to be safe than sorry. You will not notice a 12 db per octave roll off at 20 Hz and it would certainly offer protection against a stupid accident.

The low pass filter 80 Hz will be set by your receiver. The high pass of the LFE filter is second order and the low pass fourth order. You don't need another one.

This was set by Lucas Films THX. It was predicated on using sealed speakers for main center and surrounds, and setting the crossover at F3. Since sealed speakers roll off at second order at 12 db per octave the acoustic and electrical slopes make a composite fourth order filter high and low pass.

Now most domestic speakers are ported which roll off fourth order 24 db per octave. So the combined slopes end up being sixth order, 36 db per octave high pass and fourth order low pass. This is not ideal. So that is why I recommend, and quite a few others recommend, setting the ported speakers if they can take it to large and set the low pass sub at somewhere around the F3 of the mains, or may be up to f3 of mains plus 50%. I find this generally sounds the best of the speakers are robust enough. Unfortunately most domestic speakers are not.
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
I am keeping my mains and center at 80HZ. And doing the HPF at 19hz with 48 butterworth… how does that sound? That will guarantee me that the sub wont get destroyed unless it was clipping terribly for some reason for awhile. But I never let it clip for more than a second and then turn down the Crown a couple clicks. So there is no chance it will blow. And BTW those were basic winisd measurements not with room gain or anything fancy.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I am keeping my mains and center at 80HZ. And doing the HPF at 19hz with 48 butterworth… how does that sound? That will guarantee me that the sub wont get destroyed unless it was clipping terribly for some reason for awhile. But I never let it clip for more than a second and then turn down the Crown a couple clicks. So there is no chance it will blow. And BTW those were basic winisd measurements not with room gain or anything fancy.
Was that a model or measured? If it was measured in room there will be room gain.

A model only gets you so far. It is the measurement that counts.

I would use 12 db not 24. The time shift will only be a quarter cycle (90 degrees) and not a half cycle (180 degrees). 12 db is what is usually recommended.
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
It was only a model. I don't have mics and stuff like that. I got the mini dsp just for the subsonic filter. I said i was using the 48db/octave butterworth not the 24db/octave. Don't I want to cut the lower bass tones as fast as possible with the 48 butterworth? Explain why 24 or even 12 would be better please...
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
It was only a model. I don't have mics and stuff like that. I got the mini dsp just for the subsonic filter. I said i was using the 48db/octave butterworth not the 24db/octave. Don't I want to cut the lower bass tones as fast as possible with the 48 butterworth? Explain why 24 or even 12 would be better please...
You really should complement your setup now with a usb mic, like the miniDSP Umik-1 or the Dayton UMM-6. I've got questions about your box/driver tuning from previous threads....
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
It was only a model. I don't have mics and stuff like that. I got the mini dsp just for the subsonic filter. I said i was using the 48db/octave butterworth not the 24db/octave. Don't I want to cut the lower bass tones as fast as possible with the 48 butterworth? Explain why 24 or even 12 would be better please...
Because 48 will cause a time shift of a whole cycle. 12 db only a quarter cycle. Filters are NOT benign items, but necessary evils to be used as judiciously as possible. 12 db will give you good protection. Every 3 db halves the power at that frequency. The power reduction is logarithmic and NOT linear.
 
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MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
The majority of the topics you are posting down here in DIY, are not really DIY topics. How to work consumer gear would be more suited to "Beginners and Audiophytes."

If you had built your mini DSP, that would be one thing. "Building & repairing pro/consumer audio, DIY tips & techniques, board modifications, and more!"
 
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cameron paterson

Audioholic Chief
I thought since I have a diy subwoofer it would be ok to post here.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Field Marshall
TLS, I've been to Cameron's house, know his taste and preferred volume levels. If he runs his mains full range he'll likely destroy them. He should definitely use a hpf for them.
 
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