glueing vinyl

[pjoseph]

I was trying to cover my box by first folding the vinly in half and glueing it to itself so I get an uncut endge on one side.

I used 3M spray adheisive 77

I had a lot of trouble getting the edge to stick to itself, once i took pressure off it would end up seperating making it look like an air bubble was in there.

any ideas on how to solve this.

thanks

 

[Haoleb]

you should probbably use contact cement, and i would think definetly not fold it over on itself. but ive never done a speaker box before so... that probbbly doesnt help.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Second vote for contact cement.

3M Spray Adhesive is environmentally friendly garbage. It eventually falls off if it doesn't from the get go. Also tends to leave prints if you have to press it anywhere (like on the sides of the box or around the edges).

 

[highfigh]

Second vote for contact cement.

3M Spray Adhesive is environmentally friendly garbage. It eventually falls off if it doesn't from the get go. Also tends to leave prints if you have to press it anywhere (like on the sides of the box or around the edges).

77 isn't friendly. It has solvents that will make your eyes water.

 

[highfigh]

I was trying to cover my box by first folding the vinly in half and glueing it to itself so I get an uncut endge on one side.

I used 3M spray adheisive 77

I had a lot of trouble getting the edge to stick to itself, once i took pressure off it would end up seperating making it look like an air bubble was in there.

any ideas on how to solve this.

thanks

77 is OK but Weldbond contact cement is better. You need to let it dry to the point of not being very tacky and then put the surfaces together.

Do you want the edge to look like a guitar amp, where the raw edge is covered by a folded edge? You'll need a seam roller for that- you can get one in the wallpaper department of any hardware store. If the doubled material is too thick, you can remove the cloth backing on the line that will be the folded edge but you need to be really careful. Cut only the cloth with a razor knife and peel it off, then apply the cement, let it get tacky, fold it over and roll it.

Zoom in on the photos- is this the way you want the edge to look?
http://www.mojotone.com/product-category/Blackface/Blackface-Deluxe-Reverb-Style-Head-Cabinet

 

[MidnightSensi]

77 isn't friendly. It has solvents that will make your eyes water.

Huh? It smells like gods vagina. The smell is about the only good thing about 77.

But, what I meant was that 77 is made because manufacturers can't use contact cement because of environmental regulations. A hobbyist can.

 

[highfigh]

They can use high VOC cements and paints but it's expensive to do it right and it's well monitored. It has to do with collecting particulates and burning off any VOC's that are in the air. Anything in a can is for consumers, not industry. 77 is more for cloth, really. The solvents need to evaporate and vinyl doesn't allow that to happen quickly. Vinyl tops on cars are held on with cement that's similar to Weldbond. Old guitar amps had the covering held on with hide glue.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Now you have me curious on why it sucks so bad with vinyl...

Vinyl is not porous enough so the solvents can't evaporate out of it? can you explain more?

How does 77 cure differently than contact cement?

Also it seems like 77 doesn't handle the heat as well as contact cement. Like for car subwoofers and such, 77 seems to peel down south whereas contact cement doesn't.

 

[highfigh]

Now you have me curious on why it sucks so bad with vinyl...

Vinyl is not porous enough so the solvents can't evaporate out of it? can you explain more?

How does 77 cure differently than contact cement?

Also it seems like 77 doesn't handle the heat as well as contact cement. Like for car subwoofers and such, 77 seems to peel down south whereas contact cement doesn't.

It eventually gets through but when using contact cement, the mating surfaces aren't supposed to be joined until most of the solvents have evaporated anyway, so what's left over can take it's time. Vinyl isn't absolutely free of pores, it's just non-porous enough to keep water out. For carpeting car subwoofer boxes, I used Super 77 a couple of times and the worst thing was all of the overspray getting on my arm hair. As I posted before, 77 isn't made for anything heavy duty- contact cement is. My dad was an upholsterer and that's where I first saw how it's supposed to be used. It's also used for laminating wood and melamine for countertops.

A word of warning, aside from the obvious inflammability issues- the fumes are very hazardous and shouldn't be breathed for any length of time, especially by children, small animals and pregnant women. The warnings are on the can but who reads that, anyway.

Water-based contact cement is supposed to work. Well, from my experience, it doesn't. I have used it with carpet on MDF and laminate on MDF, both following the instructions to the letter. I have a pair of speakers that I carpeted with black trunk lining (the really tight weave stuff) and they haven't begun to let go on any of the corners or long seams.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Water-based contact cement is supposed to work. Well, from my experience, it doesn't. I have used it with carpet on MDF and laminate on MDF, both following the instructions to the letter. I have a pair of speakers that I carpeted with black trunk lining (the really tight weave stuff) and they haven't begun to let go on any of the corners or long seams.

Is that what 3m super 77 is, water-based contact cement?

The other problem with the 3m 77 is that if you use it on foam, it eats the foam. I assume its whatever solvent they use in it.

So, from the car sub boxes I've made with the 77, either the foam eats apart or it just doesn't stick.


Smells good though

 

[The acoustic 1]

Go to Mojotone.com and get the cement they have for attaching vinyl covering to speakers...Believe me it is the best way. Contact cement is too toxic and 3M77 takes a long time to set so you need to wrap it tightly.

Good luck and have fun and remember rule#1

"There are no rules to good sound...make stuff up"

 

[pjoseph]

I actually finally got it to stick using some glue from joanns fabric.

So now I have a long piece of vinyl folded in half glued together.

I am now worried about glueing the vinyl to the box since now the glue will be on the outside of the vinyl since its folded in half. Is there a way that i can ruff the surface up some to get the glue to bond well?

I am thinking contact cement, I have one of those masks from home depot it cost about $30 i think its a respirator that I used while i spray painted is this mask enough to protect myself from the fumes of the contact cement.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I actually finally got it to stick using some glue from joanns fabric.

So now I have a long piece of vinyl folded in half glued together.

I am now worried about glueing the vinyl to the box since now the glue will be on the outside of the vinyl since its folded in half. Is there a way that i can ruff the surface up some to get the glue to bond well?

I am thinking contact cement, I have one of those masks from home depot it cost about $30 i think its a respirator that I used while i spray painted is this mask enough to protect myself from the fumes of the contact cement.

A respirator should be more than enough, even a face mask should be fine. I don't think the particulates of contact cement are extremely small, which is where a respirator starts to make more sense (like for fiberglass filler powder). Also spray down-wind/in a high-pressure. You can spray it away from where you are working, because it needs to set up before you paste it on.

Contact cement isn't /that/ bad though. I mean, upholstery shops can use it. It's just once your company gets to a certain size they start regulating total VOCs and so forth.

Another advantage of contact cement is if you need to 'adjust' your upholstery, you can kind of work with it before it finally cures. Like if you have a wrinkle or something you can back it off a bit and then reapply.

 

[pjoseph]

Any brand of contact cement I should look for? I am guessing i should be able to find it at home depot?

Thanks again

 

[highfigh]

A respirator should be more than enough, even a face mask should be fine. I don't think the particulates of contact cement are extremely small, which is where a respirator starts to make more sense (like for fiberglass filler powder). Also spray down-wind/in a high-pressure. You can spray it away from where you are working, because it needs to set up before you paste it on.

Contact cement isn't /that/ bad though. I mean, upholstery shops can use it. It's just once your company gets to a certain size they start regulating total VOCs and so forth.

Another advantage of contact cement is if you need to 'adjust' your upholstery, you can kind of work with it before it finally cures. Like if you have a wrinkle or something you can back it off a bit and then reapply.

Particulates in contact cement have nothing to do with the hazards- it's the VOCs (Volatile Organic Compounds). And yes, it is that bad. Read the warnings on a can of it sometime. Masks for VOCs usually have charcoal in them and they're not really for particulates, although they can be for dual use.

 

[pjoseph]

Do any of these cements come in a spray? Since i have a large piece to glue i feel it will be easier and smoother. The piece im glueing is about 10' X 2'

Thanks again

 

[highfigh]

Do any of these cements come in a spray? Since i have a large piece to glue i feel it will be easier and smoother. The piece im glueing is about 10' X 2'

Thanks again

Contact cement is usually too thick to spray without a compressor and spray gun but you can use a foam roller to spread it. Home Depot and other stores that sell painting supplies have them- it's the small diameter white foam with a rounded end. I would use a large piece of cardboard to pour some of the cement on, coat the roller and spread it on the back of the vinyl and the box. That way, you won't put it on too heavy. I use these rollers for laminate counters and things like that.

Then, leave the cardboard outside to dry and put it with the other garbage.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I always use a spray gun (powered by a compressor) because it gives you an even application and the end result looks a lot better. I use 1/4" foam with a variety of vinyl's (whichever matches the color and grain of the OEM leather the best).

You can get away with rolling it though. The spray guns aren't cheap, and if you don't have a compressor that isn't cheap either.

I normally use DAP contact cement.

 

[highfigh]

I always use a spray gun (powered by a compressor) because it gives you an even application and the end result looks a lot better. I use 1/4" foam with a variety of vinyl's (whichever matches the color and grain of the OEM leather the best).

You can get away with rolling it though. The spray guns aren't cheap, and if you don't have a compressor that isn't cheap either.

I normally use DAP contact cement.

Actually, spray guns are really cheap now, with places like Northern Industrial and Harbor Freight. I bought a gun close to 20 years ago at Menard's and used it almost exclusively for contact cement and when I needed it for paint, I just cleaned it out and did what I needed, then went back to contact cement. Harbor Freight has a gravity feed gun for $13 right now and they work fine. I bought one of their gravity feed HVLP conversion guns about 5 years ago when I made my kitchen cabinets and used Minwax satin poly. Great finish and zero problems.

Dap is good, Weldbond and most others are basically the same and at this point, whatever is available for the best price is the one to buy.