Full Range Single Driver Speakers

[Beowulf]

Hey guys has anybody heard or familiar with full-range single-driver speakers such as Omega Speaker Systems or even Lowthers, Audio Nirvana, etc.?

There are a lot of good points in regards to them - such as sound radiating from a single point/source rather than having multiple drivers that would need a cross-over which can induce phase inaccuracy, etc. It also seems that a single point or source would mean a more natural sound rather than letting a multi-driver split up the sound between the different ranges. A single source would eliminate the need for a cross-over as well, which in turn would require a less powerful amp to drive them.

Most of the downsides I hear are a lack of bass, however using a sub would help with the lower end, but I have yet to ever hear or demo a pair.

Any thoughts or experience?

Thanks!

 

[jamie2112]

Technically speaking full range single drivers like you mentioned are made for "audiophiles",most of whom do not use subs as they"color"the sound too much. I really have not heard any single driver speaker that I would have in my home. I have used single drive full range speakers to mix on many times and aside from critical 2 channel or mono listening mode for mixing I would not use them to listen to the finished product. Thats my opinion in a nutshell sort of......

 

[cerwinmad]

not sold

My only experience of full range single drivers are the ones you got standard in old cars!! i cant see how a single driver can reproduce high and low frequencys at decent volume accurately, one must colour the other. well thats my experience anyway. seems like a scam to pay that much for a single driver thats too large to do the highs well and two small to do the bass well. Bose anyone??

 

[bandphan]

IMO it takes a very well thought out cabinet with good tapering to acheveive the full sound that one wants. TLS will chime in I'm sure.

 

[CraigV]

Here’s a couple pic’s - the inside of a cabinet that will allow for bass extension, and a finished unit. Click the link, and you’ll see what the builder had to do to get the driver to sound “just right”. Super critical listeners only need apply

http://www.10audio.com/fostex.htm

 

[bandphan]

another link detailing cabinet work.. http://www.quinceton.com/lowther/lowther_cabinets.htm Im trying to find the monster that was built in the 50s that ive linked before...

 

[TLS Guy]

IMO it takes a very well thought out cabinet with good tapering to acheveive the full sound that one wants. TLS will chime in I'm sure.

Yes, I will chime in.

I'm a full ranger at heart, and actually use a pair of TLs with the venerable 4" Jordan Watts driver, as a reference to keep me honest.

I have a lot of experience with Lowther and some with EJ Jordan designs.

The problem with full rangers is that the power handling, except for the new line of Lowthers is small. Lowthers now have ferrofluid in the gap.

The Lowthers are very high efficiency low Qt drivers. A back loaded horn is mandatory or there will be no bass. To my ears the the Lowthers have always had an over prominent upper midrange that makes that "shouty", although this is tamed on their newer divers. Lowther by the way is bay far the worlds oldest Hi-Fi speaker manufacturer. It was founded by the great audio pioneer, Paul Voight in the early thirties, to make the the Voight corner horn. That really was the first Hi-Fi loudspeaker.

The Jordan Watts module handles 15 watts RMS. It is not suitable for horn loading, I tried. So spl is limited, but it is a very smooth accurate driver. It is capable of significant bass output in a TL. You can use multiples and I have, but you must accept some comb filtering problems then. I have built a couple of very fine systems for large auditoriums using the Jordan Watts driver in line source with electronic crossover at 500 Hz.

Other full rangers of repute, are the Fostex driver. This requires horn loading. Tang Band are also producing full rangers for horn loading. Seas have recently added a full range high fidelity loudspeaker. I have no experience of the latter three.

Your fundamental premise is correct. I think one of the pressing needs is for more research on full rangers, or at least much high bandwidth drivers.

Not only are their few good full rangers, there are also very few midrange drivers, that allow for the crossover points to be in the right place. A driver with uniform response and good off axis response from 350 Hz to 4 of 5 kHz would be a godsend. There are about three. The Dynaudio D76 NLA to the home constructor, the ATC midrange unit at $450 each and the midrange in the B & W 800 series, not available to the home constructor, and that is the total list.

 

[cerwinmad]

help!!

im in need of help!! willing to learn!! just wondering how the speaker can produce say a 50Hz signal and a 10kHz signal at the same time with clarity?? the cabinets look awesome!! thanks.

 

[Boerd]

Hey guys has anybody heard or familiar with full-range single-driver speakers such as Omega Speaker Systems or even Lowthers, Audio Nirvana, etc.?

There are a lot of good points in regards to them - such as sound radiating from a single point/source rather than having multiple drivers that would need a cross-over which can induce phase inaccuracy, etc. It also seems that a single point or source would mean a more natural sound rather than letting a multi-driver split up the sound between the different ranges. A single source would eliminate the need for a cross-over as well, which in turn would require a less powerful amp to drive them.

Most of the downsides I hear are a lack of bass, however using a sub would help with the lower end, but I have yet to ever hear or demo a pair.

Any thoughts or experience?

Thanks!

1) Today's crossovers are not that power hungry
2) Judge the sound not the technology - ALL the sellers give you some amount of BS
3) Buy what you like

Now after all that parental advice - I did listen to single driver speakers and I wasn't impressed. The one good thing I can say is you can drive them with tubes - they are usually very efficient.
Full range speakers have their own problems - mainly phase.
Horns tend to make the voice thicker in my experience - due to the delay of the sound coming out of the horn, etc.

Anyway - if you like the sound - BUY.

 

[R-Carpenter]

Full range speakers have their own problems - mainly phase.
[/QUOTE]


Ehhh, how so?
Anyway.
Full range driver based speakers have their advantages and disadvantages as well as any other speaker systems. I like full range drivers for an acoustic guitar, solo violin or a female vocal. They will absolutely not do Rolling Stones or Apocaliptica. It all depends on what you like. I don't think full range horns or transmission lines are ideal for home theater set up.
I've had experience with Jordan 55mm and XJ96 and while they are not my preferred drivers, I have to admire the voice reproduction.
I've also used new Dayton 4" full range driver extensively and sold quite a few speakers build around it.
I have personally seen an audiophile sound systems with sub woofers and found the to be very pleasant.
This particular company has a very nice line of speakers with philosophy behind it. The veneer work is of the first rate and speakers become a part of interior with visual impact of their own.
As far as the driver reproducing an actual full range frequency it is not exactly so. Full range drivers with flatter FR tend to have higher nonlinear distortions and drivers with lower distortions will have raged FR. It's always a trade off. Fostex drivers 93db on average, have minuscule x-mas while Dayton for example has a whooping 83db efficiency and 3.5mm x-mas.

 

[Beowulf]

Here’s a couple pic’s - the inside of a cabinet that will allow for bass extension, and a finished unit. Click the link, and you’ll see what the builder had to do to get the driver to sound “just right”. Super critical listeners only need apply

http://www.10audio.com/fostex.htm

There is some serious design elements going into this ... would this be considered a TL cabinet? Would a bass reflex cabinet help with the lower range?

This would be an interesting design, but are we talking cross-over?

 

[R-Carpenter]

ha ha chew on this.
http://www.field-coil.com/#field_coil

 

[Beowulf]

ha ha chew on this.
http://www.field-coil.com/#field_coil

Whoa! Did you see those tweeters?

 

[bandphan]

There is some serious design elements going into this ... would this be considered a TL cabinet? Would a bass reflex cabinet help with the lower range?

TL would be the only way to go IMHO

 

[Boerd]

Ehhh, how so?
Anyway.
Full range driver based speakers have their advantages and disadvantages as well as any other speaker systems. I like full range drivers for an acoustic guitar, solo violin or a female vocal. They will absolutely not do Rolling Stones or Apocaliptica. It all depends on what you like. I don't think full range horns or transmission lines are ideal for home theater set up.
I've had experience with Jordan 55mm and XJ96 and while they are not my preferred drivers, I have to admire the voice reproduction.
I've also used new Dayton 4" full range driver extensively and sold quite a few speakers build around it.
I have personally seen an audiophile sound systems with sub woofers and found the to be very pleasant.
This particular company has a very nice line of speakers with philosophy behind it. The veneer work is of the first rate and speakers become a part of interior with visual impact of their own.
As far as the driver reproducing an actual full range frequency it is not exactly so. Full range drivers with flatter FR tend to have higher nonlinear distortions and drivers with lower distortions will have raged FR. It's always a trade off. Fostex drivers 93db on average, have minuscule x-mas while Dayton for example has a whooping 83db efficiency and 3.5mm x-mas.

Got me here - I stand corrected. Actually having one driver phase is a pro not a cons for full range drivers... My bad

 

[TLS Guy]

There is some serious design elements going into this ... would this be considered a TL cabinet? Would a bass reflex cabinet help with the lower range?

This would be an interesting design, but are we talking cross-over?

No, it is not a TL but a back loaded horn.

Most full rangers are low Qt drivers and require horn loading.

Large horns built by home constructors can sound quite impressive. However I never managed to live with Lowthers over time.

In my view the best full ranger was the now little known Jordan Watts full range modular loudspeaker.

This unit held a very strong niche market position for over 20 years.

It had a large magnet. The suspension was unusual, in that it consisted of three Beryllium cantilevers, two of which fed the signal to the voice coil.

The spun aluminum cone weighed 6 grams and was a tractrix. There was no sudden break up mode to give rise to a peak. The break up was gradual and continuous, so that the radiating area of the cone was in inverse proportion to frequency. There was a central phase correcting dust cap. The surround was highly lossy, and there were no edge reflections.

From 1961 to the mid eighties, practically all my listening was via these drivers. I still posses about a 100 of these drivers. That is probably the largest stash on the world.

 

[Beowulf]

Not only are their few good full rangers, there are also very few midrange drivers, that allow for the crossover points to be in the right place. A driver with uniform response and good off axis response from 350 Hz to 4 of 5 kHz would be a godsend. There are about three. The Dynaudio D76 NLA to the home constructor, the ATC midrange unit at $450 each and the midrange in the B & W 800 series, not available to the home constructor, and that is the total list.

Thanks for all the great info TLS Guy!

- This has me thinking then - if we could find a full range driver that delivers all the goods in the sweet spot, we could then add a tweeter and sub that would induce the cross-over only in the most extreme ranges - leaving all of that natural single-source sound to the full range driver. Does that make any sense and does anybody do this? This seems like you could have the best of both worlds...

By the way, I think I found our drivers

 

[R-Carpenter]

I'd wait for a spring sale. At $69,000.00 a pair, they are a bit pricey for me.

 

[Beowulf]

I'd wait for a spring sale. At $69,000.00 a pair, they are a bit pricey for me.

LOL!!! I wonder if that includes cabinet designs and speaker cabling

 

[lsiberian]

Great concept, but I don't see it as worth the cost or challenges. A well built sealed design even with lesser drivers will blow most people including many philes away.

Though I could find a home for any of those drivers.