Fried 2nd Pioneer Elite Receiver - Help Needed

[Jeffylube]

Hi guys,

New to the forum, but was hoping there are some techs that can shed light on a very frustrating situation I'm in. I will try to make this as short as possible, but I want to include as many details as I can in hope of somebody being able to help.

Last night, my setup was a Pioneer Elite plasma display, a Pioneer Elite SC-07 receiver, DirecTv, Apple TV, Denon Blu Ray, PS3 and a Wii, along with a Monster Clean Power unit and Monster Surge unit (not sure model #'s, but the huge expensive things), Sunfire Sub, 7 Klipsch speakers. Everything was working fine and has been since I first setup the receiver 3-4 months ago.

Brother (more knowledgeable than I at this stuff) comes over to run through the receiver speaker setup and double check I have everything on the optimal settings.

Somewhere between going through the setup, installing a cool components fan, and tinkering with the Monster surge box the video to the display goes out never to return again.

StarPower came out and tested the display, which was fine, and concluded that the HDMI control card (?) must have been fried somehow, possibly by static. They took the receiver and I'm waiting to hear back.

Tonight, I hooked up an older, barely used Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH receiver, and only attached the DirecTv, AppleTV and PS3 to the HDMI ports. Went through speaker setup just fine, watched AppleTV for about an hour, and somewhere between that and trying to play PS3 the identical thing happened, I have audio but no video. Just like the other receiver, if I plug in the mic to do a setup now, the menu no longer appears on the TV so that's telling me it's the same problem.

I have some amateur theories/possibilities about what might be the cause:

- On the cool components fan there's a small temp gauge attached, and one end of it is exposed (not sure if intentional) and you can see a circuit board. On both systems this was sitting on top of the receiver.

- PS3. In searching online I've seen a few cases where a PS3 fried some equipment, but it usually involved a large spark which didn't occur in my case. Strangely, when troubleshooting my first receiver, I hooked the PS3 directly to HDMI port on my TV and after running the PS3 for 5 minutes, received a "PS3 system is too hot and will now shut down" message, which I've never ever seen, despite playing it for 3-4 hours straight without any problems in the past.

- Apple Airport Express, I recently plugged one in right behind equipment rack, about 3-4 days before first receiver went out, and then after my setup tonight was working fine, plugged the AE into the wall. Shortly after this is when the video out on 2nd receiver.

- Switching HDMI cables in and out of different ports with the system on. I'm worried that this might be an obvious no-no, and I'm guilty of it in the past, but never caused any problems. I only recently read in my manual that the receiver should be unplugged when plugging in an HDMI cable.

- Faulty HDMI cables. I'm using either Monster M1000's or AudioQuests, so quality is high and since audio appears fine, I doubt it would be a cable doing this.

Any input as to what could be the problem, or any suggestions to avoid this in the future will be welcomed with arms wide open.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hi Jeff,

Talk about unluck of the draw! First, it seems that some of your components are getting quite hot?
Hey Jeff, what about CEC (Compatible Enable Components), you know that HDMI feature that operates your TV, receiver, and sometime a Blu-ray player, all together, by the simple push of a button? This feature is a bottleneck, real pain in the butt.
If I was you, I'll disable that feature from all your components.
It's very hard to pinpoint the issue, as you have quite alot of stuff in your system.
You might want to start all over again from the beginning; meanig plugging and connecting one component at a time. Try to keep things as simple as possible. And please, don't put anything on top of some of your components.
If you run out of space, just put them behind your components or somewhere that won't disturb the air flow, you know what I mean.

* The stangest thing is that it works before, and now suddenly, it won't!
That's why, I suggest to disable the CEC feature. Start with that, and we'll see what's next. But don't panick, and go running nude around the block, screaming at all your neighbours.
We'll found the problem, and come up with the solution, Ok?

Thanks for explaining the best you can, not many people do.
I'm sure other people will chime in, and come up with other suggestions, so don't despair.

*** By the way Jeff, Welcome to the Forum.

Cheers,
Bob

 

[highfigh]

Hi guys,

New to the forum, but was hoping there are some techs that can shed light on a very frustrating situation I'm in. I will try to make this as short as possible, but I want to include as many details as I can in hope of somebody being able to help.

Last night, my setup was a Pioneer Elite plasma display, a Pioneer Elite SC-07 receiver, DirecTv, Apple TV, Denon Blu Ray, PS3 and a Wii, along with a Monster Clean Power unit and Monster Surge unit (not sure model #'s, but the huge expensive things), Sunfire Sub, 7 Klipsch speakers. Everything was working fine and has been since I first setup the receiver 3-4 months ago.

Brother (more knowledgeable than I at this stuff) comes over to run through the receiver speaker setup and double check I have everything on the optimal settings.

Somewhere between going through the setup, installing a cool components fan, and tinkering with the Monster surge box the video to the display goes out never to return again.

StarPower came out and tested the display, which was fine, and concluded that the HDMI control card (?) must have been fried somehow, possibly by static. They took the receiver and I'm waiting to hear back.

Tonight, I hooked up an older, barely used Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH receiver, and only attached the DirecTv, AppleTV and PS3 to the HDMI ports. Went through speaker setup just fine, watched AppleTV for about an hour, and somewhere between that and trying to play PS3 the identical thing happened, I have audio but no video. Just like the other receiver, if I plug in the mic to do a setup now, the menu no longer appears on the TV so that's telling me it's the same problem.

I have some amateur theories/possibilities about what might be the cause:

- On the cool components fan there's a small temp gauge attached, and one end of it is exposed (not sure if intentional) and you can see a circuit board. On both systems this was sitting on top of the receiver.

- PS3. In searching online I've seen a few cases where a PS3 fried some equipment, but it usually involved a large spark which didn't occur in my case. Strangely, when troubleshooting my first receiver, I hooked the PS3 directly to HDMI port on my TV and after running the PS3 for 5 minutes, received a "PS3 system is too hot and will now shut down" message, which I've never ever seen, despite playing it for 3-4 hours straight without any problems in the past.

- Apple Airport Express, I recently plugged one in right behind equipment rack, about 3-4 days before first receiver went out, and then after my setup tonight was working fine, plugged the AE into the wall. Shortly after this is when the video out on 2nd receiver.

- Switching HDMI cables in and out of different ports with the system on. I'm worried that this might be an obvious no-no, and I'm guilty of it in the past, but never caused any problems. I only recently read in my manual that the receiver should be unplugged when plugging in an HDMI cable.

- Faulty HDMI cables. I'm using either Monster M1000's or AudioQuests, so quality is high and since audio appears fine, I doubt it would be a cable doing this.

Any input as to what could be the problem, or any suggestions to avoid this in the future will be welcomed with arms wide open.

Thanks,
Jeff

Are you plugging/unplugging accessories and devices that are connected to the receiver when it's on? Don't do that, ever.

Static? In the middle of Summer? Voltage spikes from messing with everything when it's on maybe, but not static electricity.

You have a Monster Clean Power and surge protector- how are they connected to the system? Do you have the surge protector plugged into the Clean Power unit? Show the models.

 

[Jeffylube]

Hi Jeff,

Talk about unluck of the draw! First, it seems that some of your components are getting quite hot?
Hey Jeff, what about CEC (Compatible Enable Components), you know that HDMI feature that operates your TV, receiver, and sometime a Blu-ray player, all together, by the simple push of a button? This feature is a bottleneck, real pain in the butt.
If I was you, I'll disable that feature from all your components.
It's very hard to pinpoint the issue, as you have quite alot of stuff in your system.
You might want to start all over again from the beginning; meanig plugging and connecting one component at a time. Try to keep things as simple as possible. And please, don't put anything on top of some of your components.
If you run out of space, just put them behind your components or somewhere that won't disturb the air flow, you know what I mean.

* The stangest thing is that it works before, and now suddenly, it won't!
That's why, I suggest to disable the CEC feature. Start with that, and we'll see what's next. But don't panick, and go running nude around the block, screaming at all your neighbours.
We'll found the problem, and come up with the solution, Ok?

Thanks for explaining the best you can, not many people do.
I'm sure other people will chime in, and come up with other suggestions, so don't despair.

*** By the way Jeff, Welcome to the Forum.

Cheers,
Bob

Thanks for the info Bob. I'm not at all familiar with CEC, and haven't seen it as a feature on any of my equipment. My original setup was quite complex when the first receiver went out, but when I hooked up the 2nd one I kept it very simple: DirecTv, AppleTV, PS3.

On both setups I have everything plugged into a Monster HTS 5100, which is plugged into a Monster AVS 2000. My brother noticed the 5100 reading 119.5 and thought it was weird and maybe not correctly setup. He messed around with some of the switches a little bit, and then we noticed the video connection was gone probably 30 minutes later or so, but can't say this is what caused it.

Overheating was another possibility, and while I didn't have any additional fans blowing on the equipment, the 2nd receiver went out after being on for about 45 minutes total in the last 3-4 months, so I'm not leaning on that being a possibility.

One of the things we did was install a cool components fan on top of the first receiver (before it went out) and used their Advanced LT Controller, which has the circuit board exposed at one end. I was a little hesitant putting that on top of the metal casing, but did on both receivers before they went out.

 

[Jeffylube]

Are you plugging/unplugging accessories and devices that are connected to the receiver when it's on? Don't do that, ever.

Static? In the middle of Summer? Voltage spikes from messing with everything when it's on maybe, but not static electricity.

You have a Monster Clean Power and surge protector- how are they connected to the system? Do you have the surge protector plugged into the Clean Power unit? Show the models.

Highfigh, I'm afraid I'm guilty of taking out and inserting HDMI cables into different ports with the receiver on. I only recently found it that the unit should be powered down completely before doing so. With that said, I've done it in the past without any problems, and the first receiver went out without doing this so don't think that's the problem in this case.

I have everything plugged into a Monster HTS 5100, which is plugged into a Monster AVS 2000. The 5100 was standing still at 119.5 instead of the 120, but overall I'm real familiar with these devices so not sure if that's a big deal or not.

 

[Jeffylube]

Another theory someone suggested is that my TV is actually causing the problem, since 2 receivers that it's been attached to have had their video fried. This might also explain why when I plugged in my PS3 directly to an HDMI port on the TV, the PS3 said for the first time ever that it was too hot and would now shut down...

 

[highfigh]

Thanks for the info Bob. I'm not at all familiar with CEC, and haven't seen it as a feature on any of my equipment. My original setup was quite complex when the first receiver went out, but when I hooked up the 2nd one I kept it very simple: DirecTv, AppleTV, PS3.

On both setups I have everything plugged into a Monster HTS 5100, which is plugged into a Monster AVS 2000. My brother noticed the 5100 reading 119.5 and thought it was weird and maybe not correctly setup. He messed around with some of the switches a little bit, and then we noticed the video connection was gone probably 30 minutes later or so, but can't say this is what caused it.

Overheating was another possibility, and while I didn't have any additional fans blowing on the equipment, the 2nd receiver went out after being on for about 45 minutes total in the last 3-4 months, so I'm not leaning on that being a possibility.

One of the things we did was install a cool components fan on top of the first receiver (before it went out) and used their Advanced LT Controller, which has the circuit board exposed at one end. I was a little hesitant putting that on top of the metal casing, but did on both receivers before they went out.

What voltage are you expecting to see? The typical range is about 110VAC-128VAC, depending on where you are. The power companies are usually held to 117VAC +/-10%. There's nothing wrong with seeing 119.5V.

Why do you have a surge unit plugged into a conditioner? Does the conditioner not do anything for surges?

 

[highfigh]

Highfigh, I'm afraid I'm guilty of taking out and inserting HDMI cables into different ports with the receiver on. I only recently found it that the unit should be powered down completely before doing so. With that said, I've done it in the past without any problems, and the first receiver went out without doing this so don't think that's the problem in this case.

I have everything plugged into a Monster HTS 5100, which is plugged into a Monster AVS 2000. The 5100 was standing still at 119.5 instead of the 120, but overall I'm real familiar with these devices so not sure if that's a big deal or not.

Read the info for the two units- the 5100 already has 4 stages of filtering and indicates that it has MOV (Metal Oxide Varistors), which absorb spikes.
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=3260

This one is even bigger)AVS 2000)

Use one or the other, but not both. I don't know who told you that you needed both of these but they were completely wrong. If you have part of the system plugged into one and the rest plugged into the other, I suspect that this is the cause.

If you want the system to be reliable, you need to make sure the power is clean, but you also need to make sure the grounds aren't all screwed up. If one completely isolates the equipment from the power grid and some of your equipment is on another circuit, you have voltage being carried to the equipment plugged into the power conditioners.

One circuit in the panel if it's under 20A, one power source for the whole system, feeding all of the equipment and if you use a conditioner, it feeds everything.

If you have cable TV and you hear hum or see diagonal bands crawling up the screen, your cable feed needs to be isolated and grounded.

 

[rnatalli]

The TV could be sending feedback down the line. I had a TV that electrocuted me through the Coax which is not supposed to happen. Not sure if the same thing could happen via HDMI.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hi Jeff,

First, just like highfigh told you, it is perfectly normal to read 119.5 volts, it is actually excellent.

Second, also like highfigh told you, don't plug a conditioner into another one, there is simply no need for that.

Third, the CEC feature, I already explained to you what it does. If your TV has that feature (or your receiver), disable it from the menu setting (in the HDMI menu setup).

*** Now, call the guy wher you bought your TV, and ask him to send a service technician to have a look at your TV. There is perhaps a chance that there is now a problem with it.

==> Last important advice; DON'T ever plug or unplug cables (any type at all), while any of your components are still ON. Just turn them OFF, always, before doing so.

Keep in touch,
Bob

 

[TLS Guy]

Highfigh, I'm afraid I'm guilty of taking out and inserting HDMI cables into different ports with the receiver on. I only recently found it that the unit should be powered down completely before doing so. With that said, I've done it in the past without any problems, and the first receiver went out without doing this so don't think that's the problem in this case.

I have everything plugged into a Monster HTS 5100, which is plugged into a Monster AVS 2000. The 5100 was standing still at 119.5 instead of the 120, but overall I'm real familiar with these devices so not sure if that's a big deal or not.

A famous London surgeon used to say to house staff and residents after one us did something dumb and dangerous, but the patient lived; " If you get run over by a number 13 bus on Oxford Street, you don't necessarily get killed!"

In other words, because you get away with it sometimes, you won't every time.

Don't forget, that HDMI is a two way communication, because of DRM. The owner of this site, Gene, had a TV projector fry an expensive Denon receiver because it got hosed via the HDMI port of the projector. I would say you have enough reason to have the outputs from the HDMI ports of your TV checked carefully, before connecting anything via HDMI to that TV

 

[highfigh]

The TV could be sending feedback down the line. I had a TV that electrocuted me through the Coax which is not supposed to happen. Not sure if the same thing could happen via HDMI.

I'm pretty it would have been your cable feed trying to roast you, just like the jolt I got from mine when I disconnected the coax from the cable box with one hand and that arm resting on the top of the box. I measured over 15V on it.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm pretty it would have been your cable feed trying to roast you, just like the jolt I got from mine when I disconnected the coax from the cable box with one hand and that arm resting on the top of the box. I measured over 15V on it.

Then you have a serious neutral and or grounding problem in your residence.

Start with giving your cable entry point a really good ground and check outlets you have in use for live neutral reversals. Cable companies are just morons with their grounds.

 

[highfigh]

Then you have a serious neutral and or grounding problem in your residence.

Start with giving your cable entry point a really good ground and check outlets you have in use for live neutral reversals. Cable companies are just morons with their grounds.

My service is fine and had been updated not long before I had cable installed. My arm was grounded, it was fairly humid and the shield of the coax was hot. That's how I found that I needed to check the ground point which was, let's say, less than up to code. Their ground had corroded enough that it was no longer effective and acted purely as a feed-through.

Considering the fact that this connection is supposed to be done to NEC specs, I don't see anyone holding their feet to the fire for it. Satellite installers are no better. I switched and assumed they would do it right but was obviously mistaken. I called them back to do it- the installation was free and I wanted them to learn a lesson. I also mentioned the NEC section that describes the proper way to perform this step.

 

[TLS Guy]

My service is fine and had been updated not long before I had cable installed. My arm was grounded, it was fairly humid and the shield of the coax was hot. That's how I found that I needed to check the ground point which was, let's say, less than up to code. Their ground had corroded enough that it was no longer effective and acted purely as a feed-through.

Considering the fact that this connection is supposed to be done to NEC specs, I don't see anyone holding their feet to the fire for it. Satellite installers are no better. I switched and assumed they would do it right but was obviously mistaken. I called them back to do it- the installation was free and I wanted them to learn a lesson. I also mentioned the NEC section that describes the proper way to perform this step.

Everything you say about cable and satellite companies is correct!

 

[Lordoftherings]

That doesn't sound too good.

 

[Jeffylube]

UPDATE:

Well it turns out neither receiver was actually damaged, but it was the HDMI ports on the TV that were going out, and eventually went out completely. It took a lot of troubleshooting and testing, plus a technician looking at the first receiver, to figure this out. The component output on the TV worked fine, and I was able to get a picture randomly when I would plug a device directly into an HDMI port on the TV, which added to the confusion as to what was actually the problem.

My old TV was taken away for repair, and is still under warranty so that's good. What's even better is now there's a Pioneer Kuro 500m setting in it's place I bought for $1900 new. The old display will go in another room since we've only had 1 TV in the house, and not having a backup is very difficult livin'.

Anyways, thanks for the help and pointers...

 

[TLS Guy]

UPDATE:

Well it turns out neither receiver was actually damaged, but it was the HDMI ports on the TV that were going out, and eventually went out completely. It took a lot of troubleshooting and testing, plus a technician looking at the first receiver, to figure this out. The component output on the TV worked fine, and I was able to get a picture randomly when I would plug a device directly into an HDMI port on the TV, which added to the confusion as to what was actually the problem.

My old TV was taken away for repair, and is still under warranty so that's good. What's even better is now there's a Pioneer Kuro 500m setting in it's place I bought for $1900 new. The old display will go in another room since we've only had 1 TV in the house, and not having a backup is very difficult livin'.

Anyways, thanks for the help and pointers...

My close friend had this happen on the output of his Comcast cable box. I thought it was the cable at first, but it was mechanical failure of the ouput socket.

Apart from HDMI being a miserable complicated idea for the benefit of Hollywood, the connector is a bad design. It is just guaranteed frustration, and a completely unnecessary pox on mankind

 

[Lordoftherings]

^ I couldn't agree more with that.

 

[Lordoftherings]

Hi Jeff,

*** Now, call the guy where you bought your TV from, and ask him to send a service technician to have a look at your TV. There is perhaps a chance that there is now a problem with it.

Keep in touch,
Bob

UPDATE:

Well it turns out neither receiver was actually damaged, but it was the HDMI ports on the TV that were going out, and eventually went out completely. It took a lot of troubleshooting and testing, plus a technician looking at the first receiver, to figure this out. The component output on the TV worked fine, and I was able to get a picture randomly when I would plug a device directly into an HDMI port on the TV, which added to the confusion as to what was actually the problem.

My old TV was taken away for repair, and is still under warranty so that's good. What's even better is now there's a Pioneer Kuro 500m setting in it's place I bought for $1900 new. The old display will go in another room since we've only had 1 TV in the house, and not having a backup is very difficult livin'.

Anyways, thanks for the help and pointers...

Hey Jeff, that might have been a good pointer.
Glad you're finally all set, and even better now.

* With misfortune sometimes comes positive things *

Cheers,
Bob