Frequency Response of a Subwoofer

J

Justin Bass

Enthusiast
OK this stuff drives me nuts....I have a list of at least 10 powered subwoofers and they all have different frequency responses. examples 28-150hz 18-150hz 20-150hz 18-125hz 28-120hz 32-120hz
17-260hz 19-270hz....for the first number basicly do we want something in the 20 and under or upper 20s or lower 30s? and the second #120, 125, 150, 270? So tell me about what frequencys to go with home theater and music. thanks Justin ps. the size of the speakers run from an 8 inch to a 15 inch. whats a better size also?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
OK this stuff drives me nuts....I have a list of at least 10 powered subwoofers and they all have different frequency responses. examples 28-150hz 18-150hz 20-150hz 18-125hz 28-120hz 32-120hz
17-260hz 19-270hz....for the first number basicly do we want something in the 20 and under or upper 20s or lower 30s? and the second #120, 125, 150, 270? So tell me about what frequencys to go with home theater and music. thanks Justin ps. the size of the speakers run from an 8 inch to a 15 inch. whats a better size also?
Those number are all meaningless unless the -3db point is specifies and the design of the sub.
 
WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai

What TLS said, but all things being equal, 20 or lower (assuming we’re dealing with a reputable brand). Typically larger speakers are the ones capable of playing lower (although not a hard-and-fast rule).

The upper number doesn’t really matter. Typically the AVR limits the upper range at ~80 Hz anyway.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
Recorded sound below 30 hz is pretty rare. 20hz is the lower audible limit of human hearing. So most people do fine with 30hz and those who want every possible scrap of frequency response would want to reproduce 20 hz. You can feel content below 20 hz but you can't actually hear it.

In the world of subwoofers the bigger the unit is normally the better. I have subwoofers here ranging from 10" to 15". The differences are pretty obvious with the 15" putting the others to shame. It has a measured -3b point at 25hz and I can't imagine needing more. It provides excellent sound quality and will shake the walls and the body with movie LFE. One day I may build an 18" mostly for fun but I doubt it will make my listening meaningfully more enjoyable.

My recommendation is to have a 12" subwoofer at a minimum. I have two 12" subs. While they don't compete with the 15" they handle things pretty well.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Recorded sound below 30 hz is pretty rare. 20hz is the lower audible limit of human hearing. So most people do fine with 30hz and those who want every possible scrap of frequency response would want to reproduce 20 hz. You can feel content below 20 hz but you can't actually hear it.
Recorded sound 30 Hz isn't rare actually. In fact, many sound recording engineers employ 20 Hz high pass filters on everything, because of all the incidental low frequency stuff that gets on the recording, like a gust of air on the mic from somewhere. But I think your point is it is rare in commercially available recordings, which is true.

You can hear content all the way down to the single digits. It is a fiction that people can only hear down to 20 Hz, that is a rounded number for convenience. Here is an essential article for anyone interested in the lower extension of human hearing. The low end of human hearing looks to be 2 Hz, not the oft-quoted 20 Hz. That basically gives us about 3 more octaves of hearing than is commonly understood! In reality you are hearing extreme deep bass all the time, just roll down your car window when driving down the freeway, or stand by a freight train as it passes, or on a runway with b-52s landing or taking off. The most palpable tactile bass seems to be mid bass frequencies by the way, not deep bass frequencies, although deep bass frequencies can be felt too, with enough amplitude. Here is the money shot of tested hearing down to the deepest frequencies:


Here is all of those low frequency hearing studies averaged out; this is a proposed extension to the ISO 226:2003 equal loudness contours, which only go down to 20 Hz:
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
Is it possible that some people confuse feeling with hearing below 20 hz?
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Is it possible that some people confuse feeling with hearing below 20 hz?
It does not appear so from the research, because many of those studies match when using ear phones and whole body chambers (ie subwoofers). If we only 'felt' those frequencies, the headphone data would not match the sound experienced by the whole body. From the study, "This supports the assumption that also these low frequencies are actually sensed by the ears."
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
It does not appear so from the research, because many of those studies match when using ear phones and whole body chambers (ie subwoofers). If we only 'felt' those frequencies, the headphone data would not match the sound experienced by the whole body. From the study, "This supports the assumption that also these low frequencies are actually sensed by the ears."
OK. I know I can't hear 20hz but I have no problem accepting that others can.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Recorded sound 30 Hz isn't rare actually. In fact, many sound recording engineers employ 20 Hz high pass filters on everything, because of all the incidental low frequency stuff that gets on the recording, like a gust of air on the mic from somewhere. But I think your point is it is rare in commercially available recordings, which is true.
I disagree. I've run OmniMic RTA software on many fusion jazz recordings, and sub 30Hz content is not rare. Several Yellowjackets, Spyro Gyra, and David Benoit albums, to name three.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I disagree. I've run OmniMic RTA software on many fusion jazz recordings, and sub 30Hz content is not rare. Several Yellowjackets, Spyro Gyra, and David Benoit albums, to name three.
you should've quoted fmw, not shadyJ. I guess later is more a typical target for disagreement:p;):p
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I disagree. I've run OmniMic RTA software on many fusion jazz recordings, and sub 30Hz content is not rare. Several Yellowjackets, Spyro Gyra, and David Benoit albums, to name three.
If they are newer recordings, there may be some low frequency content. In older recordings, the sound engineers would high-pass everything out of hand. The bass capability of older sound equipment was not what it is today, and extension into the 40 Hz region would have been considered very good. Older driver did not have the excursion of today's drivers, so if you put deep bass in older recordings, it would only have driven the drivers into distortion and eventually destruction.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
OK. I know I can't hear 20hz but I have no problem accepting that others can.
If your hearing is at all normal, you can hear 20 Hz. Age-related or noise-induced hearing loss attacks upper frequency sensitivity thresholds. As far as I know, low frequency hearing isn't typically lost, unless you are what is termed 'profoundly deaf' (see figure 1). Anyway, you will have to buy a bunch of PB13 Ultras to make sure. Tell your significant other that the expense is justified because it is in the interest of health concerns, as low frequency hearing loss would be a health issue. ;)


Figure 1!
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
If they are newer recordings, there may be some low frequency content. In older recordings, the sound engineers would high-pass everything out of hand. The bass capability of older sound equipment was not what it is today, and extension into the 40 Hz region would have been considered very good. Older driver did not have the excursion of today's drivers, so if you put deep bass in older recordings, it would only have driven the drivers into distortion and eventually destruction.
You mean recordings intended for LPs? Sure, but there are thousands of recording available that sub-40Hz content, and virtually every fusion jazz CD I own recorded since 1990 has a lot of output at 32Hz and below. Unless you believe that the OmniMic RTA software, or the mic, are just bogus.
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
I disagree. I've run OmniMic RTA software on many fusion jazz recordings, and sub 30Hz content is not rare. Several Yellowjackets, Spyro Gyra, and David Benoit albums, to name three.
What instruments do they use that go below 30 hz?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
you should've quoted fmw, not shadyJ. I guess later is more a typical target for disagreement:p;):p
No, I quoted the right person. He said that sub-30Hz sound is rare in commercial recordings. My measurements say different.
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
Synthesizers and electric bass.
The low B string on a 5 string bass is right at 30 hz. The low key on an 88 key keyboard is 28 hz. I have recordings by all of those artists and I've never encountered anything below 30 hz. Benoits piano, for instance, can't play below 28hz. His bass player uses a 4 string bass which won't play below 39 hz. He is a fine pianist, though. I like his stuff a lot. There are some pipe organs than can play well below 30hz but those notes are fairly rare as well. Seriously, there is some musical content below 30 hz but not very much.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
The low B string on a 5 string bass is right at 30 hz. The low key on an 88 key keyboard is 28 hz. I have recordings by all of those artists and I've never encountered anything below 30 hz. Benoits piano, for instance, can't play below 28hz. His bass player uses a 4 string bass which won't play below 39 hz. He is a fine pianist, though. I like his stuff a lot. There are some pipe organs than can play well below 30hz but those notes are fairly rare as well. Seriously, there is some musical content below 30 hz but not very much.
So you're saying my measurements are incorrect? Maybe, but my ears and butt tell me different. Try this Benoit album and measure for yourself:

http://www.amazon.com/Earthglow-David-Benoit/dp/B0037RBW4G/ref=sr_1_10?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1451345386&sr=1-10&keywords=david+benoit
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
If your hearing is at all normal, you can hear 20 Hz. Age-related or noise-induced hearing loss attacks upper frequency sensitivity thresholds. As far as I know, low frequency hearing isn't typically lost, unless you are what is termed 'profoundly deaf' (see figure 1). Anyway, you will have to buy a bunch of PB13 Ultras to make sure. Tell your significant other that the expense is justified because it is in the interest of health concerns, as low frequency hearing loss would be a health issue. ;)


Figure 1!
I'm not a subwoofer hobbyist but I appreciate the sentiment. My sub will reproduce 20 hz without a problem. But it is 9 db down at that frequency. I have 20 hz. test tones. I can feel them but I can't hear them. What I hear is the subwoofer driver fluttering, not the tone.
 
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