Frequency Range of Human Hearing?

[Porcupine]

A lot of sources say that the frequency range of normal human hearing is around 20 Hz to 20000 Hz or so. However I'm sure this varies with each individual person and each individual person's age.

My question is, what is the upper frequency limit at which some abnormal humans still have reasonable hearing sensitivity? I'm 27 years old now, so my hearing isn't what it used to be, but I can still hear high frequency sounds pretty well. I'm practically certain I can easily hear sounds way above 20000 Hz, though I don't know of a way to prove it.

Using my computer (kind of old, with outdated Sound Blaster AWE 32 soundcard), I generated some test tones. I could clearly hear tones up to 16000-17000 Hz or so, but then suddenly I could hear absolutely nothing. I am certain this was not due to my own hearing however, because the change was too instantaneous. Like a sudden -50 dB drop or so just 200 Hz above/below -- I turned the volume on my amp and all treble controls to the max to make sure. I think my soundcard probably uses a filter at this point, but I'm not sure.

At 17000 Hz, I clearly heard the sound at extremely low volumes. In fact, when I look at Fourier Transform spectrums of the music I play, the sounds that are the most noticeable to me (for a given amplitude) are in the 11000 to 17000 Hz highest octave range, definitely not the 1000-3000 Hz range that is claimed by most people.

My favorite musical instruments all have high frequencies in this range. Though I played the piano and violin for many years in high school, I hated their sound. Now that I'm older, I realize that I only like instruments which have extremely high frequency components...which are mostly synthetics (sawwaves, 11000 to 22000 Hz sine waves, metallic strikes, various other commonly used synthesizer high-freq synthetics). Xylophones sounded high to me in high school, but I was never that fond of them. Recently, looking at Fourier Transforms of songs with xylophones in them, I realized that for their typical notes, primary frequencies are in the 6 kHz to 11 kHz range, with absolutely nothing in the next octave.

I've noticed that listening to high frequency sounds is an excellent way to know if someone is watching TV or playing videogames in a far away room. From hundreds of feet away or so, separated by multiple walls, I can often still tell if someone has a TV on or not somewhere. At such distances the speaker audio is often totally inaudible, but the high-pitched whine of the electronics carries clearly (not sure why though, I was under the impression that high-frequencies do not go through walls well. Perhaps it is just that the whining noise tends not to be drowned out by ambient daily white noise).

It's also quite easy to know when someone is changing the channel on their TV, etc, because the whine of the electronics changes. Of course, this depends on the particular TV. Good ones do not have much, if any, whine. But most do. Some are so bad that I can't stand to watch that TV because the noise is piercing. I don't think most TV whine noise is that high-freq, I saw someone say that it is probably in the 15000-16000 Hz range since that is the horizontal refresh rate of NTSC television. That also agrees with what my ears tell me the frequency of the TVs are.

Anyway, just wondering if there are any studies or papers that demonstrate hearing far above 20 kHz for some unusual people. Because I really do not believe that is the upper limit for what I can hear. When I just go outside to listen to the birds chirp for example, I think I hear much higher frequency components than those.

 

[JoeE SP9]

The high pitched whine you hear from TV's is the flyback transformer. The frequency is approx 15.6Khz.

 

[MDS]

What did you use to generate 17 kHz test tones? How long were they and at what amplitude?

I too was curious about this and did an experiment a while ago. I used SoundForge (wave editor) to generate a 1 second, 17 kHz test tone at 0dB. I could hear the tone with the volume at a moderate level. I then tried 18 kHz and up and really couldn't hear them even with the volume turned way up. So, it looks like 17 kHz is my limit.

 

[Rip Van Woofer]

From what I've heard, 20kHz is the maximum frequency anyone can hear with undamaged hearing: "Superman's infant child" as one author put it. It goes down from there with age.

I doubt that you or anyone hears above that. I feel lucky in my 50s after having been a drummer during my youth and early adulthood to be able to hear up to about 15kHz.

If the rapid falloff wasn't your hearing (and yes, your ears can roll off rapidly at their cutoff) it might have been your computer speakers.

Best way to measure your hearing is to make an appointment with an audiologist!

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Test Tone - all frequencies. Try it!

Great download - safe, and no spam.

"Download Windows Version from Primary Server (exe file 229KB - 1 min)"

under doanload and installation from this site:

http://www.nch.com.au/tonegen/

First, set the NCH Tone Generator to 8000Hz with these parameters:
1) constant (continuous)
2) mono
3) sine


Now, adjust the volume as low as you can while still being able to hear this frequency. Now increase the frequency with the "+" button one step at a time. When you cannot hear the tones any longer, you'll find out your limits. Increasing the volume is cheating. Set the volume as low as you can at 8000Hz.

16,000.00Hz is extremely tough to hear if you don't cheat. But go ahead. Cheat. Turn it up until 16,000Hz is just barely audible. Then hit the "+" button and see how much further you can go. Let us know your results.

Don't feel bad. Hearing tests are usually only given to 8000Hz. Most music we listen to will never reach anywhere near 16,000Hz. Ask a younger family member to do the test to see how high they can go.

 

[WmAx]

...

Here is the crude method that I used a few months ago to find my approximate upper hearing limits(in normal conditions):

Source: Wavetek 145 20Mhz signal/pulse generator
Transducer(s): Sony MDR-CD3000/Sony MDR-7506

Method: 2kHz reference used: volume adjusted to a SPL that was not loud, but comfortable. Next: sweep frequency up from 15khz-->, then sweep down <---25khz until barely perciptble tone is identified. 4 tries for each ear/transducer combination. After target is found, measure for exact frequency with a frequency counter.

MDR-CD3000

R 18.46kHz
L 17.02kHz

MDR-7506

R 18.76kHz
L 16.83kHz

Of course, this is not a precise methodology. However, the source used insures that distortion(some poor quality sound cards, for example, may produce intermodulation distortion products that automaticly invalidate such a test) is not a variable. A proper blind test is required for precise and unbiased results. It was not practical, in this case, to do so.

-Chris

 

[Porcupine]

> What did you use to generate 17 kHz test tones? How long were they and at what amplitude?

I used Soliton, a free no-features wave editor downloadable from the web. I looped the track so the signal went on forever, amplitude was 20% of maximum for a WAV file.

You've essentially duplicated my exact result. I'm confused myself why the cutoff is somewhere slightly above 17 kHz (didn't test exactly), if anything a more logical filter cutoff in my opinion would have been 16,538 Hz because that is exactly in between 11025 Hz and 22050 Hz -- a frequency point at which 44.1 kHz sampling can cause aliasing reflections causing frequencies above 16538 Hz to be of poor fidelity.

My cutoff was the same for either ear, though I only tested by crudely plugging my ear with my fingers.

The fact that Anonymous got the exact same result as me independently causes me to suspect even more that the soundcard is at fault for this phenomena (bandwidth filtering above 17 kHz), not my ears. And as we both said, the cutoff is instantaneous and ultra dramatic. Another piece of information I did not share earlier was that at any frequency above 17 kHz I *can* hear various new types of weird static and crackle (not basic noise), however these are not notes, just garbage my soundcard is putting out.

> If the rapid falloff wasn't your hearing (and yes, your ears can roll off rapidly at their cutoff) it might have been your computer speakers.

It's not my audio equipment. Using Infinity Kappa 5.1 speakers with ribbon Emit-R tweeters with -3 db freq. response at 35 kHz, together with Onkyo TX-8511 stereo receiver with -1 db freq. response at 30 kHz.

However I do agree that it is still possible the cutoff is from my hearing; I'm not ruling that out. But like I said above, several reasons lead me to believe that the fault lies in the Digital-to-Analog converter within the soundcard itself and how it does its job, possibly bandwidth filtering at 17 kHz or some other weird thing.

> Best way to measure your hearing is to make an appointment with an audiologist!

There are such things as audiologist? Where can I find one who has equipment set up to correctly test hearing up to 100 kHz? (I'm not saying I have such ability, but testing high freq hearing definitely requires the proper equipment).

Personally I have heard from several different aquaintances that it has been proven scientifically that some special humans have demonstrated hearing FAR past 20 kHz, approaching the 100 kHz region. However I haven't been able to search out any papers for free online. I'm not the type who subscibes to and reads scientific journals that these papers are probably in.

I'm actually not too concerned about testing my own hearing. Whatever it is, I'm fine not knowing for sure. I just want to know what anyone super abnormal in the world has ever demonstrated is possible. Because I feel that it is possible, whether or not I can personally do the same.

 

[Porcupine]

No offense Buckeyefan but you don't seem to have a clue.

Why should NCH Tone Generator be any different from Soliton or SoundForge at generating tones?

Your test is stupid as well. If I truly did turn the volume as low as I can such that I could barely hear anything at 8000 Hz...then at 8001 Hz I wouldn't be able to hear anything, no matter how super-sensitive my hearing is. Because hearing sensitivity is going down as freq goes up at that point. That doesn't tell you anything about how sensitive your ears still are at that frequency.

> Most music we listen to will never reach anywhere near 16,000Hz.

Speak for yourself. EVERY song I listen to, out of thousands, has strong frequencies in the 11000 Hz to 22000 Hz range (whether anything comes out of my computer above 17000 Hz is uncertain). I look at Fourier Transforms of all songs that I play quite often. I don't listen to the same type of music as you. In fact, all my favorite songs have their highest amplitude frequencies in the < 100 Hz range (all songs are like this, because we need high amplitude to hear bass since our ears are not sensitive to low freq) and in the > 11000 Hz range. Many many songs I don't like have absolutely NO frequencies at all above 6000 Hz though. All purely string orchestral and piano pieces lack high frequencies. Regular pianos have almost no freq components above 3000 Hz.

Furthermore, most of the songs I like have strong NOTES in the > 11000 Hz, not just drums. My taste in music is totally different from yours.

> Ask a younger family member to do the test to see how high they can go.

They will probably get the same result as me, instantaneous cutoff at 17000 Hz. What I could do is try to determine the cutoff more exactly. Actually, what is better is to use some type of SPL-measuring device, maybe just a microphone, and actually measure what comes out of my speakers electronically. That would confirm without doubt whether or not the soundcard is cutting off (or messing up) frequencies above 17 kHz.

> Source: Wavetek 145 20Mhz signal/pulse generator
> Transducer(s): Sony MDR-CD3000/Sony MDR-7506

> Method: 2kHz reference used: volume adjusted to a SPL that was not loud, > but comfortable. Next: sweep frequency...

Yeah, that is a correct method to measure approximate hearing limits. I have no idea what those equipments you listed are but probably they are excellent. Unfortunately, I have no equipment like that myself.

> MDR-CD3000 R 18.46kHz L 17.02kHz MDR-7506 R 18.76kHz L 16.83kHz

> Of course, this is not a precise methodology.

Given your results, I'm sure that you tested well. I appreciate you telling us your method and results, thanks. Still, I'm interested in finding out what "the world record" in a sense, of what anyone has ever demonstrated in a lab.

> some poor quality sound cards, for example, may produce intermodulation distortion products that automaticly invalidate such a test

I guess this is probably the "weird noises" and crap I heard coming out of my soundcard above 17000 Hz. In my case though, I could tell that very obviously these noises were not 19000 Hz noises, but rather weird static and lower-frequency noise in the (not just one frequency, a spread of noise). In fact the weird noises roughly got lower in frequency as I turned my test tone up around 20+ kHz.

My Fourier spectrum, of course, did not show these weird noises because it analyzes the raw data in the computer so it shows a sine peak at 18 kHz or whatever I have it set at, so I had to use my ears to determine what frequencies the noise was at.

 

[Porcupine]

Actually, one last thing I'd point out. It is probably even somewhat unfair to yourself to test the way WMax did. Because if he just turned the volume louder, he would be able to hear frequencies above what he posted as his "limit". In some sense, your true upper limit is when you can't hear anything no matter how loud you have the volume turned. After all, almost all songs we listen to have lots of bass, and our ears have terrible sensitivity to bass. So the instruments and songs we listen to compensate by playing bass at EXTREMELY high amplitude...that is why most of the power from our amplifiers/subwoofers is for the bass notes.

To be fair, if we claim we can hear at a low 20 Hz where our ears are so insensitive we need giant woofer cones moving in-and-out many inches to hear anything, we should play high frequencies with just as much pressure/amplitude and see what our high cutoff is then. I suspect it would be quite high for most people. Though tweeters might rip and blow out at such power amplitudes.

I've always thought we are doing ourselves an injustice by loading up our music with ultra-high amplitude bass which we can naturally barely hear. Personally I don't like listening to any sounds lower than 100 Hz but that is just me.