Fluke 287?

[Tony3d]

Hi all, I just got back into electronics about 5 months ago, and I'm having a blast! Was really into kit building, and such before I got married, then kinda dropped it due to simply being to busy. Now that I'm approaching retirement I'm starting to find I have much more time on my hands, so I began setting up an all new lab. I now have a new variable power supply, solder station, function generator, Oscilloscope, and another FAILED multimeter! Which brings me to the point of this post. I have always bought relatively cheap meters in the $80.00 range. I find them to be adequate, but their reliability even just as a hobbyist meter leaves a lot to be desired. My latest one a Klein MM1000 just had a failed range switch. So I finally decided to spend some real money, and ordered a Fluke 287, which should be hear Monday. Trouble is I have been hearing a bunch of chatter about this little super cap leaking on the board. Called Fluke the other day, and they keep telling me that this is an non-issue. This leaves a very bad taste in my mouth because if you look at some of he photo's on the web, it looks like quite an issue to me. Have any of you experienced this problem yet? If I keep the meter it is always going to seem somehow tainted to me! This would be my first Fluke product. Any input would be great! This was a lot of money, and Fluke's resistance to admitting a problem exists is troubling.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Donno much 'bot 287, but in my back of ze woods anythin' by fluke da bomb.

I am sure that internet has never overblown problem bigger than it is. I have used various fluke multimeter in the past without a single issue. They build like tanks.
Perhaps since 287 is so complicated it is invariably increases chances of failure.

I think if I'd need a multimeter, I'd get a multimeter, but if I needed a scope - I'd get a scope. Something tells me that one could get used both on ebay for quite cheap

 

[Tony3d]

Donno much 'bot 287, but in my back of ze woods anythin' by fluke da bomb.

I am sure that internet has never overblown problem bigger than it is. I have used various fluke multimeter in the past without a single issue. They build like tanks.
Perhaps since 287 is so complicated it is invariably increases chances of failure.

I think if I'd need a multimeter, I'd get a multimeter, but if I needed a scope - I'd get a scope. Something tells me that one could get used both on ebay for quite cheap

You should have a look at this. This Martin guy is very respected on the web along with Dave Jones from EEVblog.
T4D #88 - Fluke multimeters with leaking / corroded surface mount supercap - 189, 287, 289 - YouTube.

Here's an image

 

[Rickster71]

With parts being sourced from so many different vendors it's not uncommon for something like this to happen.

It also depends on how many manufacturing locations they have and if the cap issue is only from one facility and one parts vendor.
Sounds like Fluke resolved the problem under their warranty.
What are your resevations with what Fluke told you, about it being a non-issue?

I've used Fluke meters for many years with no issues.
As I read the responses to that video, they seem overblown. (not saying your concerns are)

 

[TLS Guy]

You should have a look at this. This Martin guy is very respected on the web along with Dave Jones from EEVblog.
T4D #88 - Fluke multimeters with leaking / corroded surface mount supercap - 189, 287, 289 - YouTube.

Here's an imageView attachment 13069

Fluke have acknowledged the problem and are working with the component supplier. They say they will fix/replace these meters if these caps cause problems. There is a fine line between where it is a cap or a battery. I would call it a battery, which is probably why it corrodes. It is there to power the circuit that keeps date and time. Why on Earth you need that function in a meter eludes me!

 

[Rickster71]

The board will have a Revision Number etched under the solder mask.
You could ask what Rev # the leaking cap/board is and check yours to see if it's a later Rev #.
It may also be a bad choice using that type of cap in that application.
Could be it doesn't like the solder process they're using?

 

[Rickster71]

I agree with TLS. They've got a hybrid, so to speak, cap/rechargeable battery there.
IMHO they shouldn't permanently solder it to the board, since the life is 4 to 5 years.
Use one of these: Invalid Request

 

[Tony3d]

The board will have a Revision Number etched under the solder mask.
You could ask what Rev # the leaking cap/board is and check yours to see if it's a later Rev #.
It may also be a bad choice using that type of cap in that application.
Could be it doesn't like the solder process they're using?

It is an issue. I did some research, and CDE claims an expected life of just 2.8 years if humidity levels are kept below 50%! Why would Fluke chose such a component to put in a meter with a 10 year warranty, and they say this is a non-issue? Every tech I spoke with at Fluke claims they have never seen the issue come back to them. Ya ok. They need to stand up, and admit they made a mistake! If someone here owns this meter I'm willing to bet if they open it, they with find a corroded super cap. Sending it back for an Agilent U1272A I think. Just know I will have the same issue given time. I think it's pretty obvious. Would probably keep it if Fluke just would admit it's a problem.

 

[Rickster71]

They need to stand up, and admit they made a mistake!

It's a process.
They have to find a suitable replacement, test it and get it in the pipeline.
In the meantime they're covering it under warranty.

I'd be interested if/when you call Fluke to see what they are replacing it with?
Maybe it's an upgraded part.

Sending it back for an Agilent U1272A I think.

Doesn't that have a firmware issue?

 

[Tony3d]

It's a process.
They have to find a suitable replacement, test it and get it in the pipeline.
In the meantime they're covering it under warranty.




Doesn't that have a firmware issue?

Agilent fixed it immediately!

 

[Rickster71]

Were the leaking caps found in the USA too?
I noticed that video is from the UK and the reply from Fluke was also from the UK.

 

[Rickster71]

I hope you've corresponded with Fluke to get the issue resolved, as much as you've been posting it multiple times on the inter-web.
Not counting Audioholics:

Fluke 287? - All About Circuits Forum

Fluke 287 Multimeter? - AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

Fluke 287 Multimeter?

 

[TLS Guy]

I agree with TLS. They've got a hybrid, so to speak, cap/rechargeable battery there.
IMHO they shouldn't permanently solder it to the board, since the life is 4 to 5 years.
Use one of these: Invalid Request

That is the issue. That cap/battery takes a 150 milli amp charge for 10 min after meter switch on.

The problem is that the chemicals inside are reacting with the metal case.

The solution is to remove that circuit. I still fail to understand why it needs to show time and date! If someone said he wanted that feature on a multimeter, I would say: -"Don't you have a watch or a cell phone?"

This is a classic case of what we call in the English vernacular: - "Over egging the cake!"

Anyhow, stay tuned to this thread, as I'm going to use it as an excuse to show you something rather lovely. I need to take a bunch of photographs to do it justice.

Anyone who guesses what it is before you see the photographs gets the toffee apple.

 

[Tony3d]

That is the issue. That cap/battery takes a 150 milli amp charge for 10 min after meter switch on.

The problem is that the chemicals inside are reacting with the metal case.

The solution is to remove that circuit. I still fail to understand why it needs to show time and date! If someone said he wanted that feature on a multimeter, I would say: -"Don't you have a watch or a cell phone?"

This is a classic case of what we call in the English vernacular: - "Over egging the cake!"

Anyhow, stay tuned to this thread, as I'm going to use it as an excuse to show you something rather lovely. I need to take a bunch of photographs to do it justice.

Anyone who guesses what it is before you see the photographs gets the toffee apple.

Trouble is, I'm pretty sure if you open the back, and remove it, you said goodbye to that rather nice long warranty.

 

[TLS Guy]

Trouble is, I'm pretty sure if you open the back, and remove it, you said goodbye to that rather nice long warranty.

I wasn't suggesting you remove it, I was suggesting they remove that whole circuit going forward.

 

[Tony3d]

I wasn't suggesting you remove it, I was suggesting they remove that whole circuit going forward.

Good point. I guess it's used to power the clock, so the data logging events can get time stamped.

 

[Nestor]

Fluke have acknowledged the problem and are working with the component supplier. They say they will fix/replace these meters if these caps cause problems. There is a fine line between where it is a cap or a battery. I would call it a battery, which is probably why it corrodes. It is there to power the circuit that keeps date and time. Why on Earth you need that function in a meter eludes me!

It's more than a multimeter. It has logging and time stamping for saved readings for future downloads.

Edit: preempted by OP!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[TLS Guy]

This multimeter went to war.

This is an AVO meter Model D, made for the RAF from 1940 to 1947. The stamped date on this one is 1942. The case is later as it says NATO stock. NATO went into operation in 1949. The arrow is the British sign that says it belongs to Her Majesties service. The Model D was made for the RAF for working on radio, radar and aircraft ignition systems.

The Automatic Coil Winder and Electrical Equipment Co. started making multi meters of high accuracy in 1923. They were produced until 2008.

Note the wire between the terminals, when this in place the unit measures current. When removed it is a volt/ohm meter. The leads are new as it is impossible to get the original old ones.

The instructions are on the back.

The old battery has also been restored and I received this unit in 2008 and the battery still registers 1.5 volts!

The units came with a soft and hard case. The RAF case was aluminum, but the one for this meter was beyond restoration, so a Royal Navy wooden case has been substituted.

In the history of the second world war, the BBC state that the AVO meter played a pivotal rule in victory, especially in the development and service of radar equipment.

How I acquired this meter is interesting. Back in 2006 I had a hankering for an old AVO meter I had used years ago. Our school science labs were full of them and I really admired their design and workmanship.

So I bid on a really beaten up one on eBay, with the intent of restoring it. I was contacted on eBay by a Peter Monroe from the UK, who said I had outbid him. He told me the meter was very rare and he wanted it to complete his collection. He said he would very much like to have it. Under the circumstances I agreed and notified the seller to ship it to him. Mr Monroe said because of that he would look for a meter of similar vintage and restore it for me and I would pay shipping.

A little later he Emailed me that he had found an RAF issue model D and would begin a painstaking restoration.

In a little over a year he told me my meter was ready to ship. I sent him the shipping and I received the meter in January 2008.

It is a beautiful restoration and much better then anything I could have done. It is a lovely exhibit and I can't resist using it now and again when working on my ancient mechanisms. I really feel bonded to those who went before. I can assure you it is free of the material disasters of the instrument under discussion.

 

[Tony3d]

This multimeter went to war.

This is an AVO meter Model D, made for the RAF from 1940 to 1947. The stamped date on this one is 1942. The case is later as it says NATO stock. NATO went into operation in 1949. The arrow is the British sign that says it belongs to Her Majesties service. The Model D was made for the RAF for working on radio, radar and aircraft ignition systems.

The Automatic Coil Winder and Electrical Equipment Co. started making multi meters of high accuracy in 1923. They were produced until 2008.

Note the wire between the terminals, when this in place the unit measures current. When removed it is a volt/ohm meter. The leads are new as it is impossible to get the original old ones.

The instructions are on the back.

The old battery has also been restored and I received this unit in 2008 and the battery still registers 1.5 volts!

The units came with a soft and hard case. The RAF case was aluminum, but the one for this meter was beyond restoration, so a Royal Navy wooden case has been substituted.

In the history of the second world war, the BBC state that the AVO meter played a pivotal rule in victory, especially in the development and service of radar equipment.

How I acquired this meter is interesting. Back in 2006 I had a hankering for an old AVO meter I had used years ago. Our school science labs were full of them and I really admired their design and workmanship.

So I bid on a really beaten up one on eBay, with the intent of restoring it. I was contacted on eBay by a Peter Monroe from the UK, who said I had outbid him. He told me the meter was very rare and he wanted it to complete his collection. He said he would very much like to have it. Under the circumstances I agreed and notified the seller to ship it to him. Mr Monroe said because of that he would look for a meter of similar vintage and restore it for me and I would pay shipping.

A little later he Emailed me that he had found an RAF issue model D and would begin a painstaking restoration.

In a little over a year he told me my meter was ready to ship. I sent him the shipping and I received the meter in January 2008.

It is a beautiful restoration and much better then anything I could have done. It is a lovely exhibit and I can't resist using it now and again when working on my ancient mechanisms. I really feel bonded to those who went before. I can assure you it is free of the material disasters of the instrument under discussion.

Very cool! Thanks for sharing!