Floorplan - where do I put my screen/speakers? Help!

D

DavidJ

Audioholic Intern
Hello Audioholics,

I have been a massive lurker here in the past, but now I need some help! I'm house-hunting here in the UK, and naturally I want somewhere with a living room that will work acoustically, if possible. I know room dimensions shouldn't be divisible by a common number, and that a closed rectangle approaching 2,500 cu ft is ideal.

So, I'm looking at this flat here, nice big living room with high ceilings, lots of things about it tick boxes for me BUT which wall would I put my screen on for best sound? I think the left wall would work best, but wouldn't I need (ideally) to move the doorway left a foot or so? Difficult to place left speaker properly without interference from the door. Or top wall? Bottom wall has a massive long radiator along the chimney breast, though that could be moved.

Just curious to see what advice I'd get, whether I'm worrying too much. I would love, in the fullness of time, to add some acoustic panels and would also buy an Audyssey MultEQ, and I already have all the bits I need to set up REW, I just need somewhere suitable to put them..

If I get answers back saying this is potentially a great room, it will make a big difference to me in terms of loving it.

For example, I saw a lovely house yesterday, but living room is 6.4m x 3.3m, not so great! I may have to sacrifice my audio dreams, but I'd rather not, just yet anyway.

All advice gratefully received.





 
D

DavidJ

Audioholic Intern
Ugh, sorry the floorplan has come out tiny, not sure why or how to fix that. Again, any advice gratefully received!
 
T

Tubamark

Enthusiast
. . . And I was just typing "'tis too small to see much".:)

Don't get too hung-up on room dimensions, however, unless the room is particularly small and/or sealed-up. Most living rooms today are very 'leaky', so resonances are going to be much different than calculated, and resonances that don't seem related to anything exist in most rooms.

I would strive for:
--A floor plan that will permit some symmetry in the relationship between walls, listening seat(s), and speaker placement
--Larger rooms when possible (improves both density and depth of resonances such that discrete peaks are not detected).
--Location in the home where noise is less intrusive, if possible

Your first suggestion might be best. Whether the door is an issue depends on the size of your listening triangle. You'll want to figure out how to make it's impact symmetrical; if you listen with door open (or remove altogether), you can balance the room out with an absorber on the right to mimic a similar opening.
I recently treated a room that was very off-balance by adding a fake window on the left wall to match a real one on the right wall (which was right on the first-reflection point), and put special drapes on both. Not only good for acoustics, but also for the visual impact - pretty stealth compared to a giant wall panel. The effect of the radiator is likely not an issue, unless it provides its first-reflection to the listening seat.

-- Mark
 
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jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja


What are the black boxes in the living room?
 
D

DavidJ

Audioholic Intern
The adjacent black boxes in the living and bed room are chimney breasts (it's a Victorian building), but they're broader in the room itself. The box in the top right corner of the living room is just boxing, maybe for pipes.

Tubamark, I'd probably have the door shut to minimise bass suckout. I guess as long as I have a triangle it doesn't need to be exactly in the middle of that wall?
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
I'd probably start putting the TV on the long wall opposite the door and the sub on the bottom right near the black box.
 
T

Tubamark

Enthusiast
probably more than you want to know, but . . .

Tubamark, I'd probably have the door shut to minimise bass suckout. I guess as long as I have a triangle it doesn't need to be exactly in the middle of that wall?
Short answer: You don't have to be exactly in the middle.

A 'what-every-audiophile-should-consider' answer: Very few people are particularly aware of their shoes as they enjoy a walk in the park or about town. Try sometime walking about in mis-matched shoes. Iin some mixed pairs one can walk well enough and enjoy the scenery in them, yet the journey is altered by an ongoing awareness of shoes being down there. It's an unnatural walking experience. At greater extremes (say, sneaker + cowboy boot), it's fatiguing and some aspects of the journey will be missed.


It's preferable to be relatively centered. Many of the audio cues superimposed on a recording by a playback room tell your brain that you are not really in the venue of the recording. The brain can sometimes overcome this and adjust to the space, by putting attention on the recording, etc. The fewer lop-sided cues you get, the more likely you will be to accept and ignore the playback room, and believe the recording.

Certain playback room cues (ones sufficienly delayed, and w/a spectrum similar to the recording) actually help to overcome some of the shortcomings of playback formats, and allow the brain to merge a bit of 'real' space with the recorded one, making playback more believable.

How detrimental it is to setup off-center depends on speakers' off-axis frequency response, listener distance from speakers versus walls, whether first reflections are absorbed or not, and strength of secondary reflections and reverb/decay time.

Re: suckout - If you experience a bass 'suckout' that improves when you move a few feet in any direction, its not because a door or window is open. Bass holes can usually be traced to a modal or other acoustic problem, and these problems are most apparent when a room is sealed-up tight. That's why studios have to worry about room dimensions - because small rooms sealed tight for soundproofing reasons will be more prone to modal issues.

I knew I guy who swore that there was a suckout, because of a pronounced response dip no matter where measured in his room . . . I asked him if he had ever changed the height of the microphone. oops. Everywhere he had placed his head and microphone was in the null between floor and ceiling.

All other things being equal, almost any rooms' bass quality is improved by openings, esp if opening is large and/or near a corner. It functions somewhat like a bass trap does. However, a 'real' opening can zap bass much lower than any practical-sized trap could.

Many listeners are surprised to discover that midbass mud, etc. can mask the low bass - the range where the ear is less sensitive. Once they experience clean bass in a room done right, the available quantity is plenty. As always, your mileage may vary;).

-- Mark
 
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D

DavidJ

Audioholic Intern
Short answer: You don't have to be exactly in the middle.

A 'what-every-audiophile-should-consider' answer: Very few people are particularly aware of their shoes as they enjoy a walk in the park or about town. Try sometime walking about in mis-matched shoes. Iin some mixed pairs one can walk well enough and enjoy the scenery in them, yet the journey is altered by an ongoing awareness of shoes being down there. It's an unnatural walking experience. At greater extremes (say, sneaker + cowboy boot), it's fatiguing and some aspects of the journey will be missed.


It's preferable to be relatively centered. Many of the audio cues superimposed on a recording by a playback room tell your brain that you are not really in the venue of the recording. The brain can sometimes overcome this and adjust to the space, by putting attention on the recording, etc. The fewer lop-sided cues you get, the more likely you will be to accept and ignore the playback room, and believe the recording.

Certain playback room cues (ones sufficienly delayed, and w/a spectrum similar to the recording) actually help to overcome some of the shortcomings of playback formats, and allow the brain to merge a bit of 'real' space with the recorded one, making playback more believable.

How detrimental it is to setup off-center depends on speakers' off-axis frequency response, listener distance from speakers versus walls, whether first reflections are absorbed or not, and strength of secondary reflections and reverb/decay time.

Re: suckout - If you experience a bass 'suckout' that improves when you move a few feet in any direction, its not because a door or window is open. Bass holes can usually be traced to a modal or other acoustic problem, and these problems are most apparent when a room is sealed-up tight. That's why studios have to worry about room dimensions - because small rooms sealed tight for soundproofing reasons will be more prone to modal issues.

I knew I guy who swore that there was a suckout, because of a pronounced response dip no matter where measured in his room . . . I asked him if he had ever changed the height of the microphone. oops. Everywhere he had placed his head and microphone was in the null between floor and ceiling.

All other things being equal, almost any rooms' bass quality is improved by openings, esp if opening is large and/or near a corner. It functions somewhat like a bass trap does. However, a 'real' opening can zap bass much lower than any practical-sized trap could.

Many listeners are surprised to discover that midbass mud, etc. can mask the low bass - the range where the ear is less sensitive. Once they experience clean bass in a room done right, the available quantity is plenty. As always, your mileage may vary;).

-- Mark
Mark, thanks very much. I guess what you're saying is, partly, just don't worry too much about a room's dimensions; they may even add to the experience.

It was always my understanding that a sub needed to pressurise a room, so any opening would therefore be a bad thing, but you are disagreeing. Interesting. Perhaps I should just go with it, get my sub dialled in, and just see what I actually think..
 

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