First time HT guy - What to buy first? Speakers, AV?

[Spockster6]

So Im a young guy just about 2 years out of school and finally decided to ditch my old TV and wanted to upgrade. My friend had some old SONY bookshelf speakers, a KLH 10" sub (dont know the specifics) and an old JVC RX-6500 A/V that he was getting rid and said here if you want, otherwise im putting them on craigslist so I took em. The sub isnt the greatest, the AVR is eh (have to crank to about 60 to get any decent volume out of the speakers - have it as a 2.1 setup right now) and the components, well id pay $20 at a yard sale for em)

Now however I want to expand and get better stuff, and I recently bought a new TV (samsung 46 LED 6000 series - didnt care for 240 hz - actually find it wierd, or internet streaming -- plus I got it at a decent deal at $1599). I know everyone swears by plasma for quality but I didnt have the budget to go for a high quality plasma and I plan to keep this TV for a long time (even as a secondary in a bedroom or basement in the future in a house) and plasma's burn out quicker. The TV is not wall mounted but in a entertainment unit that basically covers that entire wall, so im also not sure where to place the front and center speakers (would have to be bookshelf, no room for towers).

Room is 12x20 (combination living room/dining room/kitchen but sofa is dead center) and viewing distance is about 10 ft, maybe 11-12 ft if wall mounted (dont trust walls/studs in my OLD building). I plan to move out within a year to a new apt which actually might be smaller but in a better area (manhattan vs current queens).

So my question is this, where do I start? I want a 5.1 setup. Im big on watching movies, sports, video games from time to time and music. Id say about 70/30 movies/music though. I dont know whether to get a new AV or stay with the one I have? I am basically just looking to get the L/C/R channels first for now, and use the other sony speakers I have for rears.

Question, which is easier, new AV first or speakers first? I know certain speakers cant be driven by certain AVs vice verse. The speakers will have to be bookshelf. I dont need anything big and expensive, actually dont want to spend more than $4-500 for the L/R front pair and center channel combined. I'll prolly keep the current sub and see how it bears out and then upgrade it down the road when I can afford to. I'd dish out upto $300 for a good AV or maybe wait and spend more so that I can keep it for longer and not waste money buying twice (want a more up to date one with better output, more HDMI inputs, and ipod connectivity). Question is, if I buy new speakers first and run them through my current older AV, will it damage either the AVR or the speakers (different power output/impedence etc)?

Ive never really known how to have a ear for distinguishing good speakers, Id probably end up liking almost any one of them since theyd be an improvement over anything Ive ever owned or heard (none of my friends really have any crazy HT setups). Ive read SOOOO many different brands and models here on this site in the last week or so its gotten so confusing, from axiom, aperion, ascend, EMP, Polk, SVS, Paradigm, Infinity, etc. I dont know what to choose from. I'll wait for the higher end stuff like B&W and that budget when I buy a house in a few years. I know onkyo and denon makes good AV's for my budget but dont know what models to pick. Dont know if i'd want to bother with a 7.1 AV because I doubt Id ever run a 7.1 setup since theres such a little difference from 5 to 7.

Im not too picky, just want to run a decent entry level 5.1 setup) for now that I can keep for a few years before upgrading when I move into a house. Any help is appreciated and feel free to ask questions.

 

[jostenmeat]

Plasmas don't burn out faster than LCDs. In fact, I know more people with LCDs that have died than with plasmas.

I recommend the Ascend 170SE, x3 for your LCR. You can use keyword search functions to learn more about why having an identical speaker for center is best. You avoid lobing (by having vertically arrayed drivers), get the best acoustical match possible, probably spend less, get the best panning effects possible with all drivers on the same plane. Vertically arrayed drivers are best for ideal horiz dispersion of audio, most particularly for dialogue.

That rec barely blows your budget. If on sale, or as used, probably under budget. Very easy to wall mount. You can drive them with nearly any receiver. My friend powers them with an ancient piece of cheap hardware. No problem. My only complaint is that they are rather unsexy, however, few to none are at this price point.

2 cents given.

 

[lsiberian]

First, Welcome to the forum

Second, I echo the recommendations of JM

Those speakers have great quality. And I'd say 3 of them on the front with your sony's for surround duty would be a nice step up. Toss in a new sub from SVS and you'd be made for great sound.

If you need stands I suggest the Sanus as they are very easy to assemble.

However you are a guy so I must always propose the idea of Building your own speakers and subwoofer. It would save you some cash and give you great sound for a fraction of the price.

The Madisound Recession Buster kit would be a great start. Build the sealed version and use a layer of peelnseal and rockwool on the walls. Add some good bracing and you will have it made.

For a subwoofer a nice Shiva-X build would hit the spot really well.

 

[Spockster6]

Thanks for the reply, i dunno a friend of mine who considers himself an "electronics guru" believes plasma's are outdated and that LCD is the way to go these days and says plasma's lose 25% of their brightness every couple of years, forgot the exact number.

Ive looked up these ascends before and at $350 a pair the price is decent but I dont really find them very asthetically appealing, also would you rather pair them with one of their center channels like the 340SE or if I was going budget the HTM200SE center? And at $350 a pair how do these compare to axiom M3 v2 bookshelfs at $330pp?

I kind of liked the EMP E5bi/E5ci at their "introductory pricing" offers of $200 pair and $175 for center, giving me the 3 speakers at $375. I saw the specs and they arent as comparable to the ascends and I know ascends is a better company but I dunno...

How are aperion 4 series or 5 series? And I also hear great things about the paradigm atom monitor ($250 for pair).

So theres a few more specifics models Id like to get someones opinions on, thanks.

Oh and basically my plan is the fronts bookshelfs I purchase now, will be my rears in the future (next apt or house - several years) when I upgrade and probably get towers.

 

[lsiberian]

Thanks for the reply, i dunno a friend of mine who considers himself an "electronics guru" believes plasma's are outdated and that LCD is the way to go these days and says plasma's lose 25% of their brightness every couple of years, forgot the exact number.

Ive looked up these ascends before and at $350 a pair the price is decent but I dont really find them very asthetically appealing, also would you rather pair them with one of their center channels like the 340SE or if I was going budget the HTM200SE center? And at $350 a pair how do these compare to axiom M3 v2 bookshelfs at $330pp?

I kind of liked the EMP E5bi/E5ci at their "introductory pricing" offers of $200 pair and $175 for center, giving me the 3 speakers at $375. I saw the specs and they arent as comparable to the ascends and I know ascends is a better company but I dunno...

How are aperion 4 series or 5 series? And I also hear great things about the paradigm atom monitor ($250 for pair).

So theres a few more specifics models Id like to get someones opinions on, thanks.

Take a look at the Behringer 2030p they may suit your tastes too.

I can tell you that many of the problems or alleged problems with plasmas have been pretty well fixed. You electronics friend is probably not up to speed on the recent technology. We base our findings off of scientific readings in various literature in which LCDs lag behind in picture quality significantly. You name a category and the LCDs often lose. Furthermore the LED LCDs aren't yet up to the specs of the older LCDs.

I'm not sure on the EMP's myself, but it may be worth a shot.

The aperion speakers come with free shipping both ways.

How far apart do you plan to set up your left and right speakers? If they are too close a center would be a bad addition.

For receivers you have to get 7.1 to get anything decent these days. Nobody is making good 5.1 receivers anymore.

HK, Yamaha, Pioneer, Denon, Marantz, and Onkyo all make excellent receivers so pick one of their brands.

Avoid other brands.

 

[Spockster6]

Nice to see so many ppl second these Ascends, wish they had two way trial shipping like the aperionds.

Also I only seem to hear great things about the paradigm monitor atom series so would be curious to give those a try, and they look NICE and at about $250 for the pair and then $250 for their cc-190 center. A little over my preferred budget of $400 but id stretch to $500 for better speakers.

Well as for placement, thats a HUGE issue in my apartment. The entertainment center I have is one of those big pieces that kinda covers most of wall/empty spaces. Its 94" wide by 75" tall. I have an ikea link to it but it wont let me post it as I dont have 5 posts yet.

Immediately to the right of the entertainment center is the dining table so cant put a speaker there and then to left is a hallway so cant put a speaker there either (if they were on stands that is). My thought was to place the L/R on a cabinet space of the entertainment unit, on either side of the TV, be about 6 feet apart and then the center either above the TV or below in front of the TV on the ledge. I know I know its much better to either put them on a floorstand or wall mount them if worst case. Im considering the stands but im afraid theyd either get knocked over or just plain simply be in the way.

 

[HDPCsound]

After receiving my first pay cheque, I went stright into an audio shopping thinking that I could bring home a "dream audio system". Then I realised that my dream systems all had "In your dreams" price tags on them...

I cracked and started building my own speakers... 6 months, 4 attempts and around 1k later I have created a pair of speakers that outperforms most of today's mid level speakers. : )

 

[DJ in TX]

Also I only seem to hear great things about the paradigm monitor atom series so would be curious to give those a try, and they look NICE and at about $250 for the pair and then $250 for their cc-190 center. A little over my preferred budget of $400 but id stretch to $500 for better speakers.

I admittedly do not have much experience with Audio, but I can weigh in on the Paradigm Atoms. All the reviews give extremely high praise, and have been highly regarded for many years. And after listening to them, I was sold. I hope to be picking up a pair of these for a simple 2 channel setup this weekend. You should give them a listen, definitely worth your time.

Good Luck!

 

[shadyJ]

SVS is having a sale right now, you can get a SCS front three package for under $500. You can get a Hsu Research front three for about that much too, and those will give you some massive sound. Also worth looking at is an Elemental Designs A6 6T6 set, which will run you around 500. I think Infinity Primus speakers are also well worth looking at on a limited budget.

For receivers, since you are looking for one that will do for the moment, you ought to consider refurbished. You can get really good deals on such receivers at accessories4less.com.

 

[irish]

The Paradigm Atoms look really nice and have a matching center. With the Behringers would you lay the speaker on it's side? The SVS look pretty slick and Orbs may be something you want to look at to.
I'm in the same boat of being a noob and just throwing a few more options into the mix.

 

[skers_54]

I have the Atoms and the Behringers (among others). I used the Atoms for my 2 channel setup for about a year. Once I got the Behringers, the Atoms became fixtures of my closet.

The Behringers and Ascends are supposed to be very similar, with a slight nod to unmodified Behringers. I've since modded mine with very good results. If the lack of aesthetics isn't a big deal, they are the best value for budget systems. Otherwise, the others you've mentioned here are very solid performers at their price points. In my experience, the Atoms aren't as good of a deal. The bass extension is lacking, midbass punch less than steller and vocals less clear and detailed compared to the Behringers. I think a lot of it has to do with a lower quality crossover and much more resonant cabinet. The Atoms don't do well with the knock test.

 

[irish]

I have the Atoms and the Behringers (among others). I used the Atoms for my 2 channel setup for about a year. Once I got the Behringers, the Atoms became fixtures of my closet.

The Behringers and Ascends are supposed to be very similar, with a slight nod to unmodified Behringers. I've since modded mine with very good results. If the lack of aesthetics isn't a big deal, they are the best value for budget systems. Otherwise, the others you've mentioned here are very solid performers at their price points. In my experience, the Atoms aren't as good of a deal. The bass extension is lacking, midbass punch less than steller and vocals less clear and detailed compared to the Behringers. I think a lot of it has to do with a lower quality crossover and much more resonant cabinet. The Atoms don't do well with the knock test.

Are you using the Behringers in a 2 channel or 5.1 AV system? How well do you think they'd work in a HT? Thanks!

 

[skers_54]

I've used them in both. They work great for either application. I run a phantom center and they don't miss a beat with movies, even with fast pans and quiet dialog.