Finding A Short In A Speaker Cable?

[BMXTRIX]

I have a client with outdoor speakers installed by another vendor (40 outdoor speakers!).

The speakers all work except two of them. I am trying to diagnose the issue and I am pretty sure I have it narrowed down to there being a bad wire somewhere near the speaker's location. The wire was spliced about 30' from the speaker and I found the splice and confirmed that audio works from the head end to the splice, but I can't get audio to work from the splice to the speaker.

My guess is that during landscaping the guys nicked the wiring to the two speakers which don't work (and are side-by-side) with a shovel.

Shovel - as in the wires are buried. This means a lot of digging to find the issue, which I'm not sure I want to do manually.

Does anyone know of a tester which I can put on the cable on either end and determine the distance from the tester to the short in the cable? I know they have this for CAT-5 testing gear so you can determine where a bad pinout is, and those testers are exactly what I want, but just for speaker cabling.

I would appreciate any feedback and thoughts on how to do this. Thanks!

 

[TLS Guy]

I have a client with outdoor speakers installed by another vendor (40 outdoor speakers!).

The speakers all work except two of them. I am trying to diagnose the issue and I am pretty sure I have it narrowed down to there being a bad wire somewhere near the speaker's location. The wire was spliced about 30' from the speaker and I found the splice and confirmed that audio works from the head end to the splice, but I can't get audio to work from the splice to the speaker.

My guess is that during landscaping the guys nicked the wiring to the two speakers which don't work (and are side-by-side) with a shovel.

Shovel - as in the wires are buried. This means a lot of digging to find the issue, which I'm not sure I want to do manually.

Does anyone know of a tester which I can put on the cable on either end and determine the distance from the tester to the short in the cable? I know they have this for CAT-5 testing gear so you can determine where a bad pinout is, and those testers are exactly what I want, but just for speaker cabling.

I would appreciate any feedback and thoughts on how to do this. Thanks!

This is what you need!

 

[Rickster71]

The TS-90 is great tool if you’re going to need it more than once or twice.
It isn’t cheap $150 - $200.

How long of a run are you talking?
I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be more cost effective to abandon the old wire and run a new one in conduit.
Is it out of the question to hire a laborer or two?


Rick

 

[avliner]

Wouldn't a standard voltmeter works, if you select the continuity option?

Regards, Chuck

 

[BMXTRIX]

How long of a run are you talking?
I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be more cost effective to abandon the old wire and run a new one in conduit.
Is it out of the question to hire a laborer or two?


Rick

I currently plan to dig the wire up near the speaker and replace the splice which is currently in line. The entire wire run is about 200+ feet, but the part that I think has issues is about 20 or 30 feet.

Yet, I would really prefer to replace just the one section which has issues if possible. Not sure it is possible.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Wouldn't a standard voltmeter works, if you select the continuity option?

Regards, Chuck

How so? I mean, I need the distance to the fault, not just to know that there is a fault.

The Fluke TS90 seems dead on for what I need.

 

[avliner]

Well,

what you could do is to use a standard 2 wire roll to reach almost both ends of the buried wire and then put the voltmeter wire testers to find out which wire has a short and/or is broken

Regards, Chuck

 

[BMXTRIX]

Yeah, but I don't need a which - I need a where. I already know which wires have issues, I just don't know where they have the issues.

 

[avliner]

Gotcha!

If you know there's a short somewhere down the line, is it possible to change the whole wiring without shovelling? I guess the wires run into pipes, right?

Regards, Chuck

 

[mtrycrafts]

I currently plan to dig the wire up near the speaker and replace the splice which is currently in line. The entire wire run is about 200+ feet, but the part that I think has issues is about 20 or 30 feet.

Yet, I would really prefer to replace just the one section which has issues if possible. Not sure it is possible.

Probably not very simple. You could do a search patter, say short the 20th speaker and use the ohm meter to both direction. You would know which segment the fault is, then another. But which costs less, the meter mentioned above or this search pattern

 

[BMXTRIX]

Probably not very simple. You could do a search patter, say short the 20th speaker and use the ohm meter to both direction. You would know which segment the fault is, then another. But which costs less, the meter mentioned above or this search pattern

Sorry, let me be more specific...

The speakers are all 8ohm and are INDIVIDUALLY wired around the yard using about 30 channels of amplification. They each, pretty much, have their own dedicated wire run, so I know exactly which cable is bad, and I know where it is bad within about 30 feet or so. But, I would like to narrow it down further if it can prevent me from digging up a bunch of professional landscaping.

Reality is that I'm not sure I can avoid doing this, so I may just do it, but I am still likely to pick one of the testers up just in case this happens again.

I may also try to see if my forthcoming CAT-5 tester might be capable of doing this, but I'm betting it won't.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Gotcha!

If you know there's a short somewhere down the line, is it possible to change the whole wiring without shovelling? I guess the wires run into pipes, right?

Regards, Chuck

No, all the wires are direct burial and were trenched in. All wiring, 30+ wires, were run separately in several trenches and enter the home through a 4" water pipe which is about 8 feet underground. I can't begin to tell you what a nightmare it would be to deal with and I expect that most wire runs are in excess of 200 feet. This was part of a $100K+ A/V installation which I was not fortunate enough to do from the start, but am involved with now.

 

[Alex2507]

This Should Help

 

[TLS Guy]

No, all the wires are direct burial and were trenched in. All wiring, 30+ wires, were run separately in several trenches and enter the home through a 4" water pipe which is about 8 feet underground. I can't begin to tell you what a nightmare it would be to deal with and I expect that most wire runs are in excess of 200 feet. This was part of a $100K+ A/V installation which I was not fortunate enough to do from the start, but am involved with now.

30 amplifiers! Had that installer never heard of 70 volt systems? If the wires are not in conduit, this will not be his last wire break. There is a good chance his problems are due to rodent activity, and if so there may be multiple areas of breaks and shorts in the wires.

 

[Rickster71]

Wow, a $100K AV install and no conduit; I guess most of the money went for the 30 channels of amplification.

Since you have it narrowed down to 20 or 30 feet; is it feasible to get a skinny trench shovel, and an underground splice kit?
(That’s easy for me to say, without seeing the landscaping)

Good Luck, keep us posted.

Rick

 

[BMXTRIX]

30 amplifiers! Had that installer never heard of 70 volt systems? If the wires are not in conduit, this will not be his last wire break. There is a good chance his problems are due to rodent activity, and if so there may be multiple areas of breaks and shorts in the wires.

The owner may have gone for even more speakers and he wanted to get the volume WITH quality, not just noise. 70v has it's uses, but this really would not have been appropriate for this setup.

As for 30 channels of amplification... It's not 30 amplifiers, 30 channels. It was covered across three 16 channel amplifiers. Yes, expensive amps (Crestron 16x60 models), but you can pick up 12x50 amplifiers on eBay for well under $1000 a pop. That's 48 channels available, and we have several other zones throughout the home. Pretty nice setup, but needs the maintenance that a $100K system needs.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Since you have it narrowed down to 20 or 30 feet; is it feasible to get a skinny trench shovel, and an underground splice kit?

That's the current plan.

My one issue (?) is that if the short is within a foot of the splice, or really close to the speaker, then I may just want to fix the one section that has an issue, not dig out 30 feet of cabling - running through landscaping - if I don't totally have to. It will save hours of labor, which is hundreds of dollars for the client.

 

[BMXTRIX]

The TS-90 is great tool if you’re going to need it more than once or twice.
It isn’t cheap $150 - $200.

I ended up picking one of these up on eBay for $80 shipped to my house. At that price I figured I might get my money out of it eventually.

Thanks everyone for the response.

 

[highfigh]

I have a client with outdoor speakers installed by another vendor (40 outdoor speakers!).

The speakers all work except two of them. I am trying to diagnose the issue and I am pretty sure I have it narrowed down to there being a bad wire somewhere near the speaker's location. The wire was spliced about 30' from the speaker and I found the splice and confirmed that audio works from the head end to the splice, but I can't get audio to work from the splice to the speaker.

My guess is that during landscaping the guys nicked the wiring to the two speakers which don't work (and are side-by-side) with a shovel.

Shovel - as in the wires are buried. This means a lot of digging to find the issue, which I'm not sure I want to do manually.

Does anyone know of a tester which I can put on the cable on either end and determine the distance from the tester to the short in the cable? I know they have this for CAT-5 testing gear so you can determine where a bad pinout is, and those testers are exactly what I want, but just for speaker cabling.

I would appreciate any feedback and thoughts on how to do this. Thanks!

With luck, it won't be under a wall or large boulder.

 

[PeterWhite]

No, all the wires are direct burial and were trenched in.

Wow! That's the stupidest thing I've heard of in a long time. What a moron, spending all that money and saving a few hundred by not laying conduit. If it was the homeowner's decision, he deserves all the pain he's in for. That's going to be a constant source of trouble.