Find "Peak Current Amps" specs for Mass-Market Rcvrs?

[rusten]

I've often read that when it comes to providing truly dynamic (accurately reproducing dynamic points of music) and overall high-quality sound, more important than the simple wattage, is an amplifier's ability to provide high-ampere output or "peak current" -- or extra "headroom" and I believe is analogous. Of course the primary facilitator for this has a lot to do with transformer/cap size, which is also why "separates" are much better than mas-market receivers, which occasionally skimp in this area. If this isn't entirely correct, please let me know -- it would *not* be the first time I was wrong

With this in mind, I can find "peak current" amps specified on an occasional separate amplifier here and there. However, I can't find it on the receivers, not even the top-of-the-line mass-markets, such as the Denon 5805, Onkyo 1000, HK 7300, etc.

Because I can’t find any specifications that appear to relate to headroom, I’m assuming I’m either missing something important in the specifications that vendors do provide, or there is another way to determine this that I’m unaware.

I’m purchasing a new home theater setup and the above consideration is important to me You see, I’m stuck in a fairly rural area where we don’t get much of an opportunity to “demo” quality equipment. Due to my unique situation, I unfortunately have to go by specifications and research around the Internet. For this reason, being able to determine objectively whether one amplifier has more “headroom” or “peak current amps” than another is critical. Unfortunately, I can’t find any way of comparing amplifier power in this regard.

If there is no simple answer to the above question, I wonder if anyone could give me an objective idea, on this single point, as to how the different mass-market receivers compare (I’m aware this sort of question is discouraged in the forum, I’ve done my research before posting, however, I’m trying to provide a very narrow, quantifiable question.).

For example, at the high-end, does there exist *any* integrated receiver that provides high-current headroom and can drive true 4-ohm loads (not just barely coping with a bottom-4-ohm, but truly do them justice at the full range -- say for example, with Manapans). Onkyo claims they have a WRAT technology that if one were to tear away marketing speak, sounds like it’s designed to provide headroom; HK claims their receiver can drive all five channels at full rated power (although that amazes me), etc. But I’m guessing that you take away the brochure-speak, connect them to a couple 4-ohm hogs, and even the $5k price tag on a 5805 won’t stop the amp from clipping (am I wrong?)

I apologize for running on. I guess in short what I’m asking is: how can I objectively determine the capabilities of mass-market integrated-receivers that only publish basic/similar stats like “watts per channel, and THD” rated at 8-ohms – and come out with a determination of how they’ll stack up against their competitors, or for that matter how much power they truly lack vs. going with separates. And if it’s not possible, does one brand of integrated receiver typically known more on power than they do on features/blinking-lights, than others?

Thank you in advance for any help!
-Rusten

 

[DaveOCP]

Even without an "peak amps" rating, which is questionable in itself anyway, check reviews for single channel wattage at 0.1% and 1% THD. There are a lot of variables in place there, so you cant assume that you personally will get 112.8W out of one channel driven at 0.1% THD just because the receiver measured that way in the reviewer's lab test. It can at least give you an idea though, as to how much power the receiver really does have at its disposal. If you're going to drive power ravenous speakers such as Maggies or Martin Logans, a receiver is probably not a good idea.

 

[Eric Apple]

And if it’s not possible, does one brand of integrated receiver typically known more on power than they do on features/blinking-lights, than others?

Thank you in advance for any help!
-Rusten

Outlaw fills this niche... Why not take a look at their seperates as well as their receivers ? ---> outlawaudio.com

4 ohm maggies and MLs are no problem for Outlaw equipment. Sound very sweet with nice headroom. I have measure an outlaw 7125 rated at 190 rms @ 4 ohms peaking well over 300 watts for a few ms.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Are you planning on using a subwoofer in this system? If so, you most likely will be using the pre-amp LFE crossover. In doing so, that takes major stress off your amplifier to provide adequate power to all 7 speakers.

Keep in mind - regarding ohms, that 4 ohms at 94dB spl is more efficient than 8 ohms at 87dB of spl. Make sure you're evaluating the spl levels as well as the ohm rating.

You also need to pay attention to the class of amp (most are A/B), the size of the capacitors as you mentioned earlier, and the size of the heat sinks. The ability to power very inefficient speakers without shutting down at high volumes depends on how well the system dissipates heat, and finds power from it's reserves. A class amps need huge heat sinks. A/B are more efficient, and class D or H amps are the most efficient. Some say though that the latter class have higher distortion than A and A/B, but the jury is still out. Emotiva offers a hefty efficient surround amp that has received very positive reviews.

If you plan on using this system without a subwoofer, and driving a set of Magnpan or Martin Logan towers, I would suggest you use a separate two channel amp (or two monobloc amps) coupled to a high end receiver like the ones you mentioned below.

Do you own speakers, or are you in the market? How large is your room. Most receivers over $750 should drive a majority of the speakers on the market when used in conjunction with a subwoofer and crossed over at the receiver at 60 or 80Hz.

 

[jcPanny]

High Current Amps

Check out this thread:

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14280

 

[mtrycrafts]

I've often read that when it comes to providing truly dynamic (accurately reproducing dynamic points of music) and overall high-quality sound, more important than the simple wattage, is an amplifier's ability to provide high-ampere output or "peak current" -- or extra "headroom" and I believe is analogous. Of course the primary facilitator for this has a lot to do with transformer/cap size, which is also why "separates" are much better than mas-market receivers, which occasionally skimp in this area. If this isn't entirely correct, please let me know -- it would *not* be the first time I was wrong

With this in mind, I can find "peak current" amps specified on an occasional separate amplifier here and there. However, I can't find it on the receivers, not even the top-of-the-line mass-markets, such as the Denon 5805, Onkyo 1000, HK 7300, etc.

Because I can’t find any specifications that appear to relate to headroom, I’m assuming I’m either missing something important in the specifications that vendors do provide, or there is another way to determine this that I’m unaware.

I’m purchasing a new home theater setup and the above consideration is important to me You see, I’m stuck in a fairly rural area where we don’t get much of an opportunity to “demo” quality equipment. Due to my unique situation, I unfortunately have to go by specifications and research around the Internet. For this reason, being able to determine objectively whether one amplifier has more “headroom” or “peak current amps” than another is critical. Unfortunately, I can’t find any way of comparing amplifier power in this regard.

If there is no simple answer to the above question, I wonder if anyone could give me an objective idea, on this single point, as to how the different mass-market receivers compare (I’m aware this sort of question is discouraged in the forum, I’ve done my research before posting, however, I’m trying to provide a very narrow, quantifiable question.).

For example, at the high-end, does there exist *any* integrated receiver that provides high-current headroom and can drive true 4-ohm loads (not just barely coping with a bottom-4-ohm, but truly do them justice at the full range -- say for example, with Manapans). Onkyo claims they have a WRAT technology that if one were to tear away marketing speak, sounds like it’s designed to provide headroom; HK claims their receiver can drive all five channels at full rated power (although that amazes me), etc. But I’m guessing that you take away the brochure-speak, connect them to a couple 4-ohm hogs, and even the $5k price tag on a 5805 won’t stop the amp from clipping (am I wrong?)

I apologize for running on. I guess in short what I’m asking is: how can I objectively determine the capabilities of mass-market integrated-receivers that only publish basic/similar stats like “watts per channel, and THD” rated at 8-ohms – and come out with a determination of how they’ll stack up against their competitors, or for that matter how much power they truly lack vs. going with separates. And if it’s not possible, does one brand of integrated receiver typically known more on power than they do on features/blinking-lights, than others?

Thank you in advance for any help!
-Rusten

Yes, please read the link jcpanny posted but make sure you also read the link withing the very first post there. That is the real meat of the whole issue