Extraordinary claims

[Joe Schmoe]

Some speaker manufacturers make truly extraordinary claims. These claims cause me to be suspicious and wonder if the whole company might be snake oil. Is there any way to verify them?

Example 1) The Role Audio Sampan is 4" square X 36" high with a single 4" driver. Claimed frequency response is 35Hz-20Khz +/-3.5 dB with a -6dB point of 28Hz. (Yes, I did say a 4" driver!)

Example 2) Totem Acoustics sells a small, bullet-shaped piece of metal called a "beak". Placing the beaks on top of their speakers is said to significantly improve performance.

 

[jamie2112]

Some speaker manufacturers make truly extraordinary claims. These claims cause me to be suspicious and wonder if the whole company might be snake oil. Is there any way to verify them?

Example 1) The Role Audio Sampan is 4" square X 36" high with a single 4" driver. Claimed frequency response is 35Hz-20Khz +/-3.5 dB with a -6dB point of 28Hz. (Yes, I did say a 4" driver!)

Example 2) Totem Acoustics sells a small, bullet-shaped piece of metal called a "beak". Placing the beaks on top of their speakers is said to significantly improve performance.

Yes this is the new improved Snake Oil 35hz from a 4 inch speaker, yeah right, I want whatever they are smoking..........

 

[j_garcia]

Beaks are well known and we all know what they are good for - nothing.

With the right driver and a properly designed enclosure, I think it could be possible to get 35Hz out of a 4" driver. I've never seen it done, but I don't see why it wouldn't be theoretically possible.

 

[Davemcc]

The Role Audio Sampan is a transmission line design. In that case, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it had that bass response. I've heard some of the smaller Role's and was quite impressed by the bass that they produced, especially for their size. I would not put Role into the snake oil category at all.

 

[Alex2507]

I want whatever they are smoking..........

PM sent.

 

[bandphan]

ive seen some insane horn loaded speakers that have low responses from small full range drivers

 

[bandphan]

Some speaker manufacturers make truly extraordinary claims. These claims cause me to be suspicious and wonder if the whole company might be snake oil.

like the response claims from dt

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yes this is the new improved Snake Oil 35hz from a 4 inch speaker, yeah right, ..........

They forgot to mention the max level this will happen, say 40dB maybe

 

[mike c]

like the response claims from dt

i wish i got to this thread earlier

bandphan score +1

 

[gus6464]

Def Tech BP10B
Frequency Response: 20 Hz – 30 kHz

Def Tech BP8B
Frequency Response: 22 Hz – 30 kHz

Def Tech BP6B
Frequency Response: 25 Hz – 30 kHz

I have heard all those speakers and all I can say about those FR claims is "yeah right....."

 

[fmw]

I've always been curious about speaker specs. Obviously it isn't hard at all to test them in a nearfield environment. All you need is spl meter and a signal generator or a collection of tones on a CD. In the pro audio world, for example, you never see specs like you see in home audio. A lot of pro audio subs with 18" woofers or twin 15" woofers and strong amplifiers are rated at 30 or 35 hz on the bottom end. I can tell you from experience they produce every bit as much room shaking bass as anything in the home audio industry. Maybe one group tests in anechoic chambers and the other group doesn't. I wish I had an explanation but I don't. Sorry.

I would find it entertaining to do this kind test but I don't have access to a bunch of speakers. I will do some tests on my own speakers, though, and let you know what I come up with.

I can't comment on "beaks" but the mere fact that they offer them would disqualify the manufacturer from my own home theater. I expect manufacturers to leave the tweaks to the tweakers.

I don't know if they still make them but there was a company called Shun Mook that sold little wooden discs that you would place all over your components and "tune" them to acheive the best "sound." They had little arrows on them so that you could reorient them properly after you dusted the equipment - a very convenient feature. They got rave reviews in Stereophile. I wonder how the publisher allows this kind of review to be published in his magazine. It certainly doesn't do anything for credibility does it? I can't help but think beaks and Shun Moon discs are born in the same family.

 

[Midcow2]

Advanced tone-shaping for professional muscians

Unaltered from their own web page....

"Our L1® portable line array systems are at the heart of this new approach. Advanced tone-shaping technologies, available only from Bose, make it easy to get the sound you want from any voice or instrument. And once you've dialed in your tone, the L1 system's exceptionally wide, uniform sound coverage helps fill the venue with sound in a way no conventional system can. All from a compact, portable system that takes only minutes to set up and tear down."

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Def Tech BP8B
Frequency Response: 22 Hz – 30 kHz

While I concede that I cannot confirm 22Hz, the BP8Bs do have serious, gut-punching, room-shaking, seismic bass. As much as I love the sound of them, I sometimes feel uncomfotable having them in my living room for fear of being evicted.
Interestingly, both the BP8Bs and the Primus 250s use two 5.25" woofers per cabinet and have identical cabinet volume, but the Def Techs put out vastly more bass than the Infinities (cleaner and tighter as well.) Indeed, the BP8Bs have substantially stronger bass than the JBL Stadiums, which utilize two 8" woofers each in a much larger cabinet!Since the transmission-line design is the only explanation for this, it inclines me to accept davemcc's observation.

 

[3db]

Beaks are well known and we all know what they are good for - nothing.

With the right driver and a properly designed enclosure, I think it could be possible to get 35Hz out of a 4" driver. I've never seen it done, but I don't see why it wouldn't be theoretically possible.

I disagree. They are good for one thing. Looks!!

 

[Davemcc]

I've been very impressed with my limited exposure to transmission line designs. I'd love to hear a set of Salk SongTowers.

 

[bandphan]

I've been very impressed with my limited exposure to transmission line designs. I'd love to hear a set of Salk SongTowers.

I agree, I had two different DCM speakers back in the early and mid nineties that put some nice umphh in the low end, the last being the CX27 transmission line dual 6.5 woofers with a coaxial monted tweeter.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Def Tech BP10B
Frequency Response: 20 Hz – 30 kHz

Def Tech BP8B
Frequency Response: 22 Hz – 30 kHz

Def Tech BP6B
Frequency Response: 25 Hz – 30 kHz

I have heard all those speakers and all I can say about those FR claims is "yeah right....."

Per Stereo Review (Julian Hirsch):

BP10B: 25 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB
BP8B: 30 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB

Per HT Magazine:
BP7000SC: 22 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB

Per S&V Magazine:
CLR3000: 28 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB

Here is a chart that shows some differences between manufacturer vs. 3rd party measurements:

View attachment 6184

 

[cornelius]

In the pro audio world, for example, you never see specs like you see in home audio. A lot of pro audio subs with 18" woofers or twin 15" woofers and strong amplifiers are rated at 30 or 35 hz on the bottom end. I can tell you from experience they produce every bit as much room shaking bass as anything in the home audio industry.

For example - I'm in a session right now, listening on a pair of Barefoot MicroMain 27's. Anyone else heard these?

 

[bandphan]

Per Stereo Review (Julian Hirsch):

BP10B: 25 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB
BP8B: 30 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB

Per HT Magazine:
BP7000SC: 22 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB per def tech...Freq. Response: 13 Hz – 30 kHz

Per S&V Magazine:
CLR3000: 28 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB

Here is a chart that shows some differences between manufacturer vs. 3rd party measurements:

View attachment 6184

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have not stated a SINGLE OPINION to defend DefTech.

All I've stated were the FACTS.

BTW, $10,000/pr MartinLogan Prodigy:
Per Manufacturer: 28 Hz – 20 kHz +/-3dB
Per Home Theater Mag: 37 Hz – 20 kHz +/-3dB

Hmmmm.....