External amp with a Denon 2807

[dpnaugle]

Hi All,

I have recently purchased a pair of Paradigm Studio 60 v4 and the Studio cc 590 that run through my Denon AVR 2807. I have a few concerns about under powering my new speakers and have been considering an external PS. I am hoping for some discussion on the topic.

The 2807 output level is -80 to +18dB. I have never turned it above -15dB for any purpose, however, on some live performance CD's it seems that I have to turn the volume up quite a bit even though it is not particularly loud (-20 to -15dB)

I play most movies between -35 to -25dB and most studio CD's -30 to -25dB.

My concern is that I may be exceeding Denon’s amp threshold of distortion and do not want to damage my speakers.

Has anyone used an external amp for this application?
Thanks in advance for your suggestions and experiences.

DN

 

[cfrizz]

Hi DN. I have used external amps with my older Denon 3802 for years! I started out with a Parasound 1500A 205wpc 2 channel amp & now have a Sunfire 405wpc 5 channel amp.

It made a HUGE difference! You will notice greater clarity, separation of instruments, better bass & details that you probably never heard before will suddenly be right in your face. Oh yeah...you will be able to turn it up much louder & maintain the integrity of the sound.

I always recommend starting at 200wpc & go up from there if you wish.

So by all means go get some separate amplification & enjoy.

 

[dpnaugle]

How does one audition an amp? Should you have them set it up with the same speakers and receiver if available?

For an amp I'm thinking $1000 is about my limit. Do you have any suggetions in this price range.

Integrated? 2 channel? or a surround?

thx

Dn

 

[cfrizz]

Hi Dn.

If you're lucky enough to have an audition with your same speakers & equipment then by all means go for it. Usually this isn't possible, so you should take some of your own cd's/movies that you know extremely well and listen to see if you hear any differences in the sound. I will give you an example:

On the Bee Gees song Got To Get A Message To You when they start singing the refrain someone is striking a triangle. Until I got the amp I NEVER heard this triangle with just the Denon driving my speakers!

I started out with the 2 channel Parasound 1500A amp, when I heard the difference that it made I just had to get an Outlaw M200 monoblock for my center channel. I now have a Sunfire 5 channel amp for ALL of my speakers. If I had known then that it would make such a big difference I would have gotten a 5 channel from the get go.

So I would say that if you have multichannel setup, then save up & get a multichannel amp of at least 200wpc & just get it done once & for all. This way you will have an amp that will stay with you not matter what other equipment or speaker upgrades you make. And it will have more than sufficient power to drive any speakers that you have now or in the future.

If you don't mind used, check out Audiogon for Rotels, Parasounds, Sunfires, etc. New, good bang for the buck is Outlaw Audio.

Don't hesitate to exercise a little patience & save more money to get what you really want, rather than rushing to get something NOW & getting less & wishing you waited to get what you really wanted.

I'm a firm believer in doing it right the first time.

How does one audition an amp? Should you have them set it up with the same speakers and receiver if available?

For an amp I'm thinking $1000 is about my limit. Do you have any suggetions in this price range.

Integrated? 2 channel? or a surround?

thx

Dn

 

[mtrycrafts]

Hi All,
I have recently purchased a pair of Paradigm Studio 60 v4 and the Studio cc 590 that run through my Denon AVR 2807. I have a few concerns about under powering my new speakers and have been considering an external PS. I am hoping for some discussion on the topic.
The 2807 output level is -80 to +18dB. I have never turned it above -15dB for any purpose, however, on some live performance CD's it seems that I have to turn the volume up quite a bit even though it is not particularly loud (-20 to -15dB)
I play most movies between -35 to -25dB and most studio CD's -30 to -25dB.
My concern is that I may be exceeding Denon’s amp threshold of distortion and do not want to damage my speakers.
Has anyone used an external amp for this application?
Thanks in advance for your suggestions and experiences. DN

Firstly, we need to ask if your system is properly calibrated, all channels level matched properly with test tones and SPL meter. With those numbers on the master volume control, I bet the reference level for the master volume is on 0 and with the proper test tones, -30dBFS, 75dB spl on the meter, all channels.
If this was done, then your volume levels will not over tax the receiver at all.
Some CDs are not mastered like all others. But, even that level you indicated is acceptable. I don't think you have anything to worry about.

 

[Nick250]

The 2807 output level is -80 to +18dB. I have never turned it above -15dB for any purpose, however, on some live performance CD's it seems that I have to turn the volume up quite a bit even though it is not particularly loud (-20 to -15dB)


I play most movies between -35 to -25dB and most studio CD's -30 to -25dB.

My concern is that I may be exceeding Denon’s amp threshold of distortion and do not want to damage my speakers.

Has anyone used an external amp for this application?
Thanks in advance for your suggestions and experiences.

DN

The receiver is very unlikely to be your problem. I am sorry, but the other posters are just ill informed IMO, and you will not receive the benefits mentioned by adding more amplification unless you tend to respond to placebo effects. Gene has written about this and again on Audioholics. Do a search for the thread "The all channels driven fallacy" for more reading. Even when playing music very loud I suspect you are only drawing 20-50 watts or so from the receiver. As is oft mentioned, if you double your watts, you get only a 3db increase in volume. Not very much.

A couple of things. You have all your speakers set to small and they all are crossed over at 80Hz. Right? If not correct this before doing any further listening.

Room acoustics make a hugh difference in sound. Speaker choice and room acoustics probably account for somewhere around 95% of what your hear. Room treatments can make a night and day improvement in sound quality. Play around with speaker placement. Subs in particular are very location sensitive.

The CD sound quality issue may well be answered by knowing that most CD's have poor dynamic range and no matter how much power you send to your speakers, the CD is going to sound crappy because the CD is poorly mastered. It's a very common occurance.

My last suggestion is that you buy the Eagles concert DVD Hell Freezes Over. It is incredibly well mastered and has great dynamic range. Make sure you listen to it in 5.1 DTS mode and see what you think. It is my personal "bench mark" disk for assessing sound quality.

Good luck and remember that sound quality is all about speakers and room acoustics.

Nick

[edit] ditto to what Mtry mentions above.

 

[dpnaugle]

You have all your speakers set to small and they all are crossed over at 80Hz. Right?

What is the reason to have the speakers set to small? I am not running a sub and when set the front to small it automatically switches sub to yes.

I like the idea of calibrating the system, although beyond plugging it all in and listening I'm not sure what I can do to fine tune. There is a lot about the 2807 that I'm not familiar with.

 

[cfrizz]

You shouldn't set your speakers to small until you get a sub. When you do add the sub then you should so that the sub takes over the real low stuff which takes some of the strain off of the receiver.

This is where reading your manual will come in handy for tweaking your system.

 

[Nick250]

My mistake, for some reason I thought you had a sub. Most certainly in your case the proper configuration is sub set to no and speaker set to large. AudioHolics has some good setup guides. This one should help. Also the "auto setup" on the 2807 can take care of many of the setup tasks.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/avhardware/audiovideosetup.php

 

[avliner]

My last suggestion is that you buy the Eagles concert DVD Hell Freezes Over. It is incredibly well mastered and has great dynamic range. Make sure you listen to it in 5.1 DTS mode and see what you think. It is my personal "bench mark" disk for assessing sound quality.

Nick,

you're right on that, but have you heard the latest show from The Eagles (the live concert in Melbourne, Australia)?

IMO, it's even better that HFO; absolutely fantastic, specially when played in DTS.

Cheers / Avliner.

 

[Nick250]

Nick,

you're right on that, but have you heard the latest show from The Eagles (the live concert in Melbourne, Australia)?

IMO, it's even better that HFO; absolutely fantastic, specially when played in DTS.

Cheers / Avliner.

Yes, the Melbourne concert is one of my favorites too. HFO edges it out a smidge for sound quality IMO, but for all around enjoyment, Melbourne is more entertaining to watch and sounds damed good to boot. I suspect I am picking nits here since I view them both pretty often.

Nick