External Amp advice.

[Musicman61]

First my setup. I have a Yamaha aventage 2080 Rated at 140 wpc into 2 channels with a 3channel Emotiva 3channel external amp rated at 275 wpc into the front sound stage Right left and center. The problem i am facing is now when I switch from 2 channel music to neo 6 or Dolby surround mode it takes a dip in sound level and quality. With out using the amp the sound is more precise and balanced when switching through different sound modes. However the sound quality is so much better and punchy with the emotiva on when using just the 2 front speakers. I'm guessing this is because the emotiva has a better and more powerful amp than the yamaha which is now only powering height and surround speakers. I'm using martin logan motion 40s for mains and motion 4 for heights with motion fx for the surrounds. The yamaha doesn't have a 4 ohm setting which is what the logans are. Only has 6 ohm or 8 ohm. So I just leave the yamaha on 8 ohm. I'm wondering is there something I may have set up wrong? In the yamaha interface there is a setting for bi-amp 7.2 and a setting for 5.2.2. Which one do I use, being that both settings work. Neither setting detects my height speakers when running the test mode but yet the height speakers work fine when playing a movie or whatever. I will upload some pics to see what you guys think. Maybe I have something hooked up wrong. Dunno.

 

[Pogre]

Most of that post makes little sense to me. I'm confused as to your issue. You shouldn't really hear any differences in sound quality between the Yamaha and the Emotiva. Switching sound modes will change the sound, of course, but that has nothing to do with the onboard amps over the external one. It's just a different sound mode. It's going to sound different.

I personally only listen to music in stereo. Some stuff is meant for multichannel and some is meant for stereo. There's some wiggle room in between and some folks do like listening to stereo in 5.1 but it's not for me.

Leave it set at 8 ohms for sure. The lower setting cuts your power to accommodate lower resistance speakers. You have an amp shouldering some of the load and the 2080 is pretty capable on its own.

 

[lovinthehd]

You're using the external Emotiva amp when you use your mains, not the Yamaha amp, so it's not a comparison of the different amps. It's the sound modes you apparently don't like the processing of? Or just you prefer 2ch to surround? They're really not that comparable between a straight 2.0 recording let alone matrixing that into surround (and a dedicated surround recording is another thing, too). That you have choice of dsp is just to find something you like, so experiment. Yes, the higher impedance setting generally is what you want (article on the subject here https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1 ). Hard to know what settings you're particularly using within sound modes, too. Did you use YPAO to set everything up? Or ?

Just how loud do you listen? What distance are you from the speakers? What are the speakers/subs involved?

 

[Musicman61]

Yes I used the ypao calibration after setting everything up. I understand there will be changes in the sound when switching through the different sound modes or going from 2 channel to full surround mode. A bit frustrated here because its hard to really convey what I'm trying to explain. Sorry about that. But yeah I'm familiar with all the different dsp modes changing sound. This has been a hobby of mine for over 40 years. What I'm saying is that the emotiva has a much better sound than what I get just using the yamaha. So lets when I'm listening to 2 channel music with the emotiva amp on and then switch the amp off by using a setting on the interface of the yamaha that allows you to bypass the amp. Not using any dsp processing or Equalizer. With the amp on the speakers play louder and clearer than with it off. Before I bought the emotiva and hooked it up switching through the different sound modes or going from 2 channel to surround was a smooth transition. There was no jump in volume or big change in sound like I get now since hooking up the emotiva. I mean yeah obviously you could tell that you were listening to surround or what have you but with this emotiva added to my yamaha the surround mode sounds off. No more smooth balanced transition and the surround sound in general is lacking now. What I was asking was that could this be happening because of the emotiva is only powering the front channels and not the surround that is causing the issue? If I were to send the emotiva amp back and have them add 2 more modules to make it a 5 channel amp and then would that solve the problem? The yamaha doesn't have pre-outs for height channels so i can't have them make it a 7 channel amp. Have to go with 5 and leave the heights up to the yamaha.

 

[lovinthehd]

How do you bypass the power amp? You have your speakers hooked up both to the amp and your avr at the same time?

 

[ryanosaur]

Yes, this is highly confusing.

 

[ryanosaur]

Something that occurs to me is that those FX style speakers are usually Bi-Poles and thus create a dispersed soundfield which can be muffled sounding.
If you are comparing your SQ from MonoPole Speakers to Bi-Pole and Di-Pole designs, they will inherently sound different.
We usually recommend using those type of Speakers only if being positioned nearfield to your LP (for example if your seating is close to the back wall and you have rear speakers about 1-2' from your head).

Another question is how loud do you listen? Unnless you are cranking your system to it's limits, you are likely not using much more than 16-32 Watts per channel at any given time.

 

[Trebdp83]

Well, let's start from scratch. So five mains and two heights? That would be 5.2.2. But, to which channels/configuration did you assign the height speakers?

 

[Eppie]

So lets when I'm listening to 2 channel music with the emotiva amp on and then switch the amp off by using a setting on the interface of the yamaha that allows you to bypass the amp. Not using any dsp processing or Equalizer. With the amp on the speakers play louder and clearer than with it off.

I'm confused by this as well. Normal setup is to connect the pre-amp out from the Yamaha to the Emotiva and run the main speakers from the Emotiva. So the question is, what do you have connected to the main speaker terminals on the Yamaha? It sounds like either the speaker connections on the Yamaha are incorrect or you have incorrect speaker settings on the Yamaha setup menu. You should refer to your owners manual and look specifically for the section that covers the use of an external amplifier and see what the settings and speaker connections should be. You don't mention a center channel speaker. Can we assume you have the matching center for the Motion 40s?

 

[Pogre]

Are you getting up, unplugging your speakers from the Emotiva then plugging them into the speaker connections on your Yamaha every time you switch sound modes? That seems very cumbersome and unnecessary.

I think what's happening here is you have some misconceptions about how this works and a huge expectation bias clouding your judgement...

 

[Musicman61]

Are you getting up, unplugging your speakers from the Emotiva then plugging them into the speaker connections on your Yamaha every time you switch sound modes? That seems very cumbersome and unnecessary.

I think what's happening here is you have some misconceptions about how this works and a huge expectation bias clouding your judgement...

Ok guys let me put this the simplest way I can. Surround now sounds like crap since using the emotiva amp for the front sound stage. Surround sounded great prior to having the emotiva amp. However playing 2 channel sounds much better since using the emotiva compared to just using the yamaha.

 

[Musicman61]

How do you bypass the power amp? You have your speakers hooked up both to the amp and your avr at the same time?

There is a setting called basic on the yamaha which bypasses the amp

 

[lovinthehd]

Then sounds like you want another external amp....hard to imagine it makes that big a difference, tho.

 

[lovinthehd]

There is a setting called basic on the yamaha which bypasses the amp

So how do the speakers connect to the two amps then?

 

[Musicman61]

Ok guys let me put this the simplest way I can. Surround now sounds like crap since using the emotiva amp for the front sound stage. Surround sounded great prior to having the emotiva amp. However playing 2 channel sounds much better since using the emotiva compared to just using the yamaha. I Don't know how else to explain it. I'm trying to figure out why this is the case.

 

[ryanosaur]

You keep repeating that, but are not answering questions that may allow us to better help you.

How do you physically have your system wired?
Photos would be helpful.
How are your speakers set up in the AVR?

 

[lovinthehd]

Some have great expectations about using an external amp and it can influence the experience. Personally have several avrs and many power amps and just don't find they make the kind of difference you're reporting. I'd suspect setup more than a significant difference between the amp section in the avr and the external unit.

 

[Musicman61]

Then sounds like you want another external amp....hard to imagine it makes that big a difference, tho.

Believe me it does make a difference. I've been a sound freak for many years as well as being a musician my self for 40 years self taught by ear before taking classical guitar lessons so I have a pretty good ear when it come to sound. I have to say that in all my years of going through many recievers and amps like using mono block tube amps back in the day I've never hear such a night and day difference between the yamaha and the emotiva. I thought changing speakers made the biggest difference but obviously that's not the case. When switching to using the emotiva it gives my speakers a whole new dimension. The sound stage is bigger and clearer. The dynamics over all and punchyness is much better. After hearing the difference I wanted to put the yamaha up for sale and get something of better quality. I've had a few friends over and they could easily hear the difference as well.

 

[Musicman61]

You keep repeating that, but are not answering questions that may allow us to better help you.

How do you physically have your system wired?
Photos would be helpful.
How are your speakers set up in the AVR?

I took pics with my cell but the site won't allow me to upload because of the size or format. Speakers are all martin logan 4 ohm. The height speakers are plugged directly into the yamaha output terminals. The rear speakers hooked up to the rear terminals of the yamaha. As for the center and the 2 main speakers those are wired to the emotiva amp. I am using the front and center pre outs from the yamaha to the emotiva.

 

[Pogre]

There is a setting called basic on the yamaha which bypasses the amp

I think you are confused how this works. It doesn't matter what setting you use on the Yamaha, you're still using the Emotiva unless you're physically disconnecting your speakers from it and just using the onboard amps in your receiver.

I think you're talking about what Marantz calls "pure direct", which bypasses all dsp and sound processing. In which case you either prefer some dsp or you don't, and that's the difference you're hearing.