Ever "bottomed out" a sub?

Johnny Canuck

Johnny Canuck

Banned
So I was on the Hsu forum reading about the STF 3 that I recently bought and it was mentioned by a few that they had "bottomed out" their sub. Could this have been what I did with my Polk 404? When i took the Polk to the shop they couldn't find anything wrong. The guys who bottomed out their Hsu said it just made a loud crack/pop sound and it was fine to use, not damaged. Just had to turn it down or calibrate with a SPL meter.

I am worried about this with the Hsu. My 12 x 12 room may have a dead spot for bass where it is placed, thus causing me to turn it up way too much and will bottom it out. i am limited as to where i can place it. I am borrowing a SPL meter from a friend and will try it. i don't have a calibration CD but he said to use the pink noise/test tone from my Denon 3805 (will that work??)

so far I am having trouble "dialing it in" but have decided to keep this beast and turn it down and try to calibrate it correctly. Shipping it back for a STF 2 or VTF 2 would cost me the same in shipping as what the difference is in price...and from most posts I have read, better to have too much and hardly push it than too small and push it hard...

I have emailed Hsu to get a foam plug and set up CD if possible...no response yet after 2 days...

speaking of plugging a port, do you do this (with the STF3) only for music and take it out for movies?

is it better to have the sub dial turned down and turn up the sub volume on the Denon, or should I reverse that?

thanks JC
 
W

wafflebird

Audioholic
Bottomed out

As a general rule when a sub is "Bottomed out" it is just driven beyound its capabilities to produce the sounds that are being requested of it. They can make a lot of wild sounds when this happens but if it is not done on a continual basis it generally does no real harm, especially if it is from a good manufacturer. Passive subs are much more suseptible to this and that is really the receiver blanking out from trying to drive satalites and the sub at the same time. But to answer your question it genearly does no real harm. They are made to "Self protect".

I really would have a hard time believing you would have the same problem with your STF 3 for that size of a room it will be more than ample without question. :cool:
 
P

Peter Marcks

Banned
Dear Johnny,

Which email address did you send the request to? Try techsupport@hsuresearch.com . I imagine that Dr. Hsu is still catching up with email this week, as he was out of town the prior week with little to no access to phone and internet. I also suggest looking at our 'Service' tab on the website for recommendations on product setup and placement from Dr. Hsu.

Another suggestion is to inquire with your dealer in Canada about obtaining a spare port plug.

This is what Dr. Hsu has said in the past about using the STF-3 with a port plug:


Our company tries to respond quickly to customer needs. This issue of getting high output below 25 Hz is a good example. Previously, we felt that the majority of customers who buy the STF-3 do not need response below 25 Hz. Posts like yours make us reconsider that. We came out with a very simple and cost effective solution to make the STF-3 more appealing to consumers like yourself – plug up one port. The fact that our manual did not mention the option does not mean that one cannot do it or that it is not recommended. It is a different story if we said specifically in the manual that we do not recommend operating the subwoofer in that fashion.

The loss in output with 10% harmonic distortion when switching to one port is not as bad as you think. Thanks to the soft power supply of the BASH amp, with one port open, the impedance at 25 Hz is much higher than when both ports are open. With both ports open, the impedance at 25 Hz is very low. The maximum voltage swing the amplifier can deliver is much lower than when one port is open, where the low impedance is shifted down to around 18 Hz. The result is no loss of output at 25 Hz for 10% harmonic distortion. The woofer has a much higher excursion at that SPL compared to the two port open case (roughly 10 times higher), but harmonic distortion is still below 10% up to the same SPL. The only 1/3 octave spaced frequency measured that showed significant reduction in output with the 10% harmonic distortion criteria is 31.5 Hz where we measured a 2 dB reduction.

Regarding frequency response, using one port versus two ports and not adjusting the EQ is roughly equivalent to comparing a sealed box system with a system Q of 0.7 to one with a system Q of 0.5. The frequency response starts to roll off earlier. In this case, the roll off begins at around 40 Hz, being down about 2 dB by 25 Hz compared to both ports open. However, Edward’s expectation of the frequency response being down 7 dB at 20 Hz compared to the two ports open situation is erroneous. Edwards forgot that with both ports open, below 25 Hz, the output of the port gets out of phase with respect to the woofer output. This result in a 24 dB/Oct acoustic roll off below 25 Hz. This is absent in the one port open condition, down to the single port resonance of around 18 Hz. This means that the roll off rate between 25 and 18 Hz is far gentler with one port open. The result is the frequency response at 20 Hz is down less with one port open than with both ports open, even without changing the EQ.

Now, some customers do prefer an overdamped frequency response. Some feel that it gives a ‘tighter’ bass. Hence I would not dismiss this option entirely. In fact, I will make it official that customers who prefer an overdamped characteristic can set their VTF-3 or VTF-2 to two ports open EQ, and plug up one port. It posts no danger to the subwoofer (on the other hand, we do NOT recommend opening both ports and setting the EQ to one port open).


Last of all, I would like to mention that our subwoofers do have some protection against bottoming of the driver. Our amps include subsonic filtering and soft clipping. Just make sure that the driver has enough clearance firing downward, take some care in carefully calibrating the subwoofer, and let us know if anything seems amiss.

Have fun!

Sincerely,
 
Last edited:
Johnny Canuck

Johnny Canuck

Banned
Thanks Peter. With a response like that, i have no doubt I will be looked after and feel confident in my purchase. Funny thing, the top hi fi stores in my town have never heard of Hsu. Very strange. They also said they NEVER read internet garbage and it pisses them off as there is so much BS...I have to agree with the scores of people here who recommend your products on these forums for a reason...
 
krzywica

krzywica

Audioholic Samurai
Turn the dial up and leave the reviever at 0.
 
Francious70

Francious70

Senior Audioholic
I've bottomed my sub out plenty of times, back when I didn't know any better. It shouldn't hurt you sub to much if you don't do it to often. It just sound like poopie when you do it.

Paul
 
Johnny Canuck

Johnny Canuck

Banned
Francious

"back when you didn't know any better"

what do you do differently now to avoid this??

Thanks
 
Francious70

Francious70

Senior Audioholic
I don't use crappy equiptment. :D

Nah, I just learned the limits of what the sub would do, and what the amp would push it to do, and what the enclosure would make it all sound like.

Paul
 
Johnny Canuck

Johnny Canuck

Banned
Can someone please answer my question about plugging a port during movies...do you take the plug out? is the plug more for music? The way I understand it, volume is decreased but you get lower frequency response. In my 12 x 12 room, volume is not an issue for me :)
 
C

cbraver

Audioholic Chief
I haven't bottomed a home subwoofer out in a long time.

I've bottomed out CAR subwoofers plenty plenty though.

I had an older Sony subwoofer when I was younger that used to bottom out too. My dad's Pinnacle Supersonic or whatever it is, bottoms out too. I'm kind of disapointed with that thing, but, *shrug*. The volume is turned up like a quarter of the way and the thing bottoms out. It moves a lot of air without making much noise...which also makes me believe that my dad has it placed incorrectly, but it's really in the only place that "looks" ok...every place else is too "ugly" for him. So, I guess that's just a tradeoff some people make.

No matter how hard I drive my Velodyne HGS-18, I've never gotten it to bottom out before my ears gave out. Same with the M&K 150 subs. It has a lot to do with the amps used too, I believe. I know both those subs have some serious "protection."

Companies know that subwoofers are abused and abused...so with that in mind, a lot of the well built ones have a lot of protection. ...and even the cheap ones have some form of protection.

-Chad
 
Francious70

Francious70

Senior Audioholic
Johnny, if you plug the port, you will essentially have a "sealed" enclosure. While this is desireable because "usually" they can play lower, the enclosure was designed for a port, and by pluging it, the subwoffer response will be altered form it's original intent.

Paul
 
Johnny Canuck

Johnny Canuck

Banned
so......I should take it out for movies?? I don't want to damage it. :confused:
 
C

cbraver

Audioholic Chief
How long have you had it? I would send it back to Hsu and buy another brand subwoofer.
 
P

Peter Marcks

Banned
Dear Johnny,

The STF-3 has two open ports during standard operation. With a port plug, it still does not become a sealed subwoofer. In fact, it becomes more similar to the VTF-3 in maximum extension mode, albeit with an overdamped response.

Please look again at Dr. Hsu's response on the first page of this thread. As you can see, plugging one port on the STF-3 poses absolutely no danger to the subwoofer.

Sincerely,
 

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