ER18 build (for real this time!)

[mattsk8]

About to pull the trigger and start cutting up some MDF. I have all the material to build these (including drivers and crossover components since last August!, MDF, and cherry to finish w/).

I have a question for either Skyline, Swerd, or anyone that's built these. Next to the cabinet dimensions on page 1 of skyline's ER18 build thread is a cutlist. What is the "Shadow Piece" it calls for listed in the cutlist?? It's supposed to be 12 3/4"x8 1/4". Can anyone tell me where that piece goes?? Thanks for any input!!!

 

[David LR]

Hey Matt-

I'm building these speakers also. They way I understand it, the shadow piece fits in between the main speaker box & the base piece that sits on the floor. It is smaller than the floor piece and also smaller than the bottom of the main enclosure which is 13.5 x 9. The visual effect is to provide sort of a floating look, or, shadow, since this piece will be inset under the main box. Hope I explained that well.

Good luck, I'm sure you will finish before me even though I started about a month ago. I'm slow & not even all that steady ! I will persevere though, they will be finished !!

Dave

If you to to the original ER18 thread on this forum, look at page 19, at the build by JeffG, he's got some great photos that clearly show the shadow effect.

 

[mattsk8]

Got it!!! Thanks a LOT! First time I've seen that build on page 19, he did a phenominal job!! Can't wait to see yours come to fruition as well!

Originally I was debating on whether or not I wanted the additional 3/4" front baffle, but I decided I love it after thinking about it while finishing those Tritrix. Now I'm thinking about making that piece out of solid 3/4" cherry but I'm looking for some opinions from some of you guys that know more than I do. I know that using solid hardwood for cabinet construction is a no-no; but considering the main cabinet will entirely be constructed from 3/4" MDF, will making that 22"x9" outer front baffle out of solid cherry matter? I'll still flush mount the speakers, it'll just make it a lot easier to get the roundover I want if this is an acoustically acceptable way to do it.

Thanks again for the info David, I can now forge ahead. Hopefully I'll get the pieces cut for the main cabinets tomorrow. I'll post many pics of the build process. As far as finish time who knows; I'd love to say these will be done inside a couple weeks but that's coming from the same guy that wanted to start them months ago, and that's had the components in the basement for over 8 months now! God willing (and wife permitting) I should be able to dive in finally

 

[David LR]

I'm planning on building my baffle pieces out of hardwood also, will be the first time for me, although it will out of this stuff from :: Cambia by NFP® :: wood. made better. , they thermally modify hardwood to, and I quote "Cambia by NFP® thermally modified wood is created by heating wood to a high temperature in a controlled atmosphere. This treatment improves the dimensional stability and decay resistance of the wood in an environmentally responsible process", it's meant to be environmentally responsible outdoor wood, the reason I want them though is the appearance. The heating process, at least on Oak I saw at Crosscut Hardwoods, produces a beautiful, rich dark tone.

I should start my own build thread I suppose, I've never done that, although I enjoy reading other build threads, maybe someone would get something out of mine.

Dave

oops, guess I don't know how to insert a web address on this forum, should come through as http://www.cambiawood.com

 

[mattsk8]

That wood sounds interesting, I've never heard of that process before. You should definitely start a thread on your build! I didn't even know that other guy built his till you pointed me there. I love to see the different ideas and exterior design aspects different people use.

I love the looks of the black baffle but I think I'm going to go for the entire thing solid cherry; still a little undecided though.

I can't wait to finish these and hear them. Once they're done, I think I might get a hold of the boys at Meniscus so we can do a good sound off between these ER18's and the Statements if they're willing and have the time (probably should have asked them before posting that, but they've been super good guys to work w/ so far!) After reading through a lot of the thorough and exhaustive reviews guys here have done, my review alone probably wouldn't suffice . (Mine may sound something like this, "I think these sound better, more boomier and just different in a good way)

 

[mattsk8]

Talked to Meniscus this morn and they're on board to do the sound off. They'll have better equipment than me and they have a better ear for listening and brain for explaining the differences in detail. All the more reason I'm excited to get these babies done!!

If anyone has some good listening requests let me know and I'll come up w/ the cd. They told me they have some music there but to bring my own and I'd like a good variety. One cd I want for sure is SMV's Thunder.

 

[Swerd]

Shadow Piece - David LR said it right. Thanks David. I think I did a poor job in the original document describing that. If it's painted matte black, it gives the impression that the speaker cabinet is floating above the plinth. It's for purely visual effect. I copied the idea from Salk's speakers.

Making the "outer" front baffle out of solid wood and the "inner" front baffle out of MDF is what Jim Salk does as an extra-cost option on his speakers. As you guessed, it presents no acoustic problem. It can look real nice. If you browse around the gallery photos at Salk Speakers, you'll see several examples. Here's one in walnut and another in Maple.

The Meniscus Audio sound off idea is great. A lot of DIYers will be interested in the comparison. I hope you have a truck big enough to haul all those speakers .

 

[David LR]

floating above the plinth.

So that's what you call it. The technical & much more articulate way to say "that piece that sits on the floor"

Dave

 

[mattsk8]

Making the "outer" front baffle out of solid wood and the "inner" front baffle out of MDF is what Jim Salk does as an extra-cost option on his speakers. As you guessed, it presents no acoustic problem. It can look real nice. If you browse around the gallery photos at Salk Speakers, you'll see several examples. Here's one in walnut and another in Maple.

The Meniscus Audio sound off idea is great. A lot of DIYers will be interested in the comparison. I hope you have a truck big enough to haul all those speakers .

Thanks for the links! That's exactly what I was thinking. As far as the truck goes I have a Suburban. W/ the seats folded in they'll fit.

Got some work done tonight; nothing huge but at least I've got the panels all cut for the basic MDF portion of the cabinets. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get all the dados cut in and get the braces cut out. Have to take Thurs off but then Friday I can work on the cherry baffle. Still going over in my head how to make that work prior to doing the veneer; don't want to wait till I get all the veneer down to hear these!! I'll figure something out.

Progress so far...

Props to Festool, best tool I own by far! Fairly steep price tag but worth it

Panels all cut up, begging for dados

 

[capricious]

Nice to see that a bunch of us are building this. I'm in the middle of a build as well (ribbon version).
I have never used the festool ... and from what i can here, its like a guide. I was wondering - how do you get consistent, repeatable cuts? I mean measuring again and again after every cut doesn't sound like fun.

 

[David LR]

Nice to see that a bunch of us are building this. I'm in the middle of a build as well (ribbon version).
I have never used the festool ... and from what i can here, its like a guide. I was wondering - how do you get consistent, repeatable cuts? I mean measuring again and again after every cut doesn't sound like fun.

Exactly the question I was going to ask.

By the way Matt, slow down man !! You're making me look bad, real bad !!

Dave

 

[jinjuku]

You will build a guide with a stop you can set. Take your measurement, set your stop and keep moving pieces into the stop and cut.

 

[mattsk8]

Nice to see that a bunch of us are building this. I'm in the middle of a build as well (ribbon version).
I have never used the festool ... and from what i can here, its like a guide. I was wondering - how do you get consistent, repeatable cuts? I mean measuring again and again after every cut doesn't sound like fun.

Not to try to turn the Audioholics DIY section into the ER18 build thread section, but lets see your work guys!! I love watching other people's builds take place. Also love to see the finished product and learn from other people.

As far as the saw goes, it is a guide and I do repeated mesurements w/ it. Can be a bit tedious, but not too bad. I almost bought a Delta Unisaw used but my shop isn't that big. This saw makes simple work of ripping the pieces down for my Rigid table saw and I don't have a gigantic cabinet saw taking up all kinds of space. I love the saw for more than the speaker cabinets though. I was a builder for a while and used on a LOT of different things. Basically, to make a cut you just measure and mark on both ends of the piece you're cutting. Then lay the track on the wood up against your marks, set the saw in the track, pull the trigger, drop the blade and go straght across. You can literally make the cut w/ your eyes closed once the track is set. They sell clamps for the guide (track) but I've never needed them, the guides come w/ super grippy, almost neoprene like foam on the backside and the track doesn't move when it's layed down. I also use it to straight edge rough sawn hardwood. I'll be so bold to say that nothing does a better job; not a jointer and I'll even say it probably rivals ridiculously expensive straight line rip saws for straight edging rough saw lumber. If you had a piece of hardwood w/ a bad crown, It'll be perfectly straight after cutting through w/ the Festool. If you love woodworking and work w/ rough sawn hardwoods or larger sheet stock a lot; plus have a small shop it can't be beat. Not to mention the Festool dust collector. It's almost dust free w/ that running on the saw which is beautiful when cutting MDF or sanding. It also powers up w/ whatever equipment is plugged into it when you pull the trigger. I also have a couple Festool sanders but I'll rant and rave about them later ! That's probably enough free advertising for Festool from me, but if you ever get to Woodcraft check their tools out, they're fabulous! The only downside is once you get a taste for their tools, all of a sudden all the tools you have that seemed to work fine before are obsolete! My wife hates Festool BTW

I'm building the ribbon version as well. I hear guys that are concerned about the sound from ribbon tweets, but after hearing those Statements I have no concerns what so ever! Sound very natural to me!!

 

[capricious]

Maybe this is a good thread to ask this since a lot of ER18 MTM builders are on this ...

I bought precision port and am still a bit confused about the total length. I've read that it should be 1" longer than the regular non-flared one ... but from end to end what is the length? Meniscus did not send me the middle section of the port ... they just sent me the flares, saying that this was enough. But i'm not so sure.

 

[Swerd]

Maybe this is a good thread to ask this since a lot of ER18 MTM builders are on this ...

I bought precision port and am still a bit confused about the total length. I've read that it should be 1" longer than the regular non-flared one ... but from end to end what is the length? Meniscus did not send me the middle section of the port ... they just sent me the flares, saying that this was enough. But i'm not so sure.

The port’s length, if not flared, is 2¾" long.
If flared on one end, make it 3¼" long.
If flared on both ends make it 3¾" long.

These are the total lengths of a 3" inner diameter port, end to end, including the flared part.

 

[capricious]

Thanks, Swerd. I read this in the doc that you sent earlier. The reason for confusion is that the meniscus kit initially came with non-flared port 4.5" in length. I took one look at this port and decided to upgrade to precision port. And the one they sent had no 3" port (the middle portion) as such. It was just the front/back flare that join together with the help of a small 3" ring. And from one end to the other, it is 6" in length.

So if you are saying that it should 3.75" in total length inclusive of the flared ends, i won't be able to modify the port at all. It is 6" in all, and that is pretty much the shortest length for this design. Maybe a few pics will help ... i'll upload it tomorrow for clarity. But i think a few here have already used this port. Wonder what length they used?

 

[mattsk8]

I got the cheap port (just ordered off the BOM). After seeing it I think I'm going to go w/ the flared one as well. It looked very professional on the statements. Very interested in what you figure out because I should order that asap.

Yesterday's aspirations for progress today were a little too ambitious! I forgot my wife had something to do when I got home from work so I had my little ones to look after for a couple hours (not a bad thing, love my kids to death!). I still managed to get a bit done, although my neighbors are probably wondering what in the world they were thinking buying a house next to me at this point!

I'm a huge fan of measure twice (or more), cut once! Always map everything out in great detail before cutting anything. I may have messed these up otherwise. While looking at the dimensions for the speaker layout I almost missed the fact that the ribbon tweets cabinet layout is different from the other tweeter (ribbon is bigger). I measured it up and layed the speakers over it and would have completely messed up everything if I didn't catch it. Everything, because the dados for the bracing behind the woofers would have been wrong as well.

Anyhow, here's progress so far. Got the dados that I can do w/ the router table cut in...

Plus I have all the other dados and the speaker layout all mapped out for work to be done on Friday...

Hopefully Friday I'll get the dados for the braces cut in; have to clamp a guide and use my freehand router for those. I also hope that on Friday I can get all the brace's holes cut into them and get the roundovers done on those as well. That'll leave most of the day saturday to work on the cherry baffles and hopefully glue these cabinets up. Maybe an overly zealous outlook again but maybe it'll happen!

 

[Swerd]

Thanks, Swerd. I read this in the doc that you sent earlier. The reason for confusion is that the meniscus kit initially came with non-flared port 4.5" in length. I took one look at this port and decided to upgrade to precision port. And the one they sent had no 3" port (the middle portion) as such. It was just the front/back flare that join together with the help of a small 3" ring. And from one end to the other, it is 6" in length.

So if you are saying that it should 3.75" in total length inclusive of the flared ends, i won't be able to modify the port at all. It is 6" in all, and that is pretty much the shortest length for this design. Maybe a few pics will help ... i'll upload it tomorrow for clarity. But i think a few here have already used this port. Wonder what length they used?

I think I understand what you mean, that the 3" Precision Port's flared ends cannot get short enough to yeild an overall length of 3¾".

Paul Kittinger said when he modeled this cabinet that a 3" non-flared port will work without audible chuffing. At 2.83 volts, it has a predicted port air velocity of just above 1% the speed of sound, and at 8 volts (~17 watts) it is just above 3% the speed of sound. The general rule-of-thumb to avoid chuffing noise in port tubes says to stay under 5% the speed of sound. So a 3" non-flared port, 2¾" long will do the job. Flared ports do look nicer, but if cutting the Precision Ports to the correct length isn't possible, non-flared is the only choice. What kind of part did Meniscus supply?

Parts Express sells a 3" port that comes 4½" long. Trim it with a hack saw.

You can also get 3" inner diameter plastic drain pipe from Lowes or HD and mount it to a recessed hole (cut to fit the pipe's outer diameter) on the inside of the rear baffle. On the other side of the rear baffle, use a round over bit to flare the opening in the MDF. This method used to be available (with photos) at this web site http://www.speakerbuilder.net/web_files/Articles/porttut/porttut.htm, but today at work I can't open it.

 

[capricious]

Here are the two ports that i received. The first time around, they sent me the regular port which looked bad, and i asked them to send me the precision port. And they sent me this.

 

[mattsk8]

I have the same regular port you've got. I think I'm going to just use it. It's on the back and I'm not that concerned about the looks as long as it functions.

As far as your flared port goes, isn't that a 2 piece? Can't you just cut the piece that fits into the other part?