Equipment for a new room?

[davepinminn]

Repeat of an old story... I apologize in advance for being so long-winded...

I'm not an audiophile. My current equipment consists of Vanderstein IIC speakers with Infinity RS 300 rears, Paradigm 12" subwoofer, Adcom preamp and amp, Integra (8087?) tuner, Denon CD player... This is what I've been using for the last 12 or so years and its been fine.....

Problem? We moved to a new home and SWMBO (she who must be obeyed) has decreed that in her turn-of-the-century living room there will not be "human being sized speakers". So, I'm looking for sat/sub systems. My CURRENT equipment will be going into the "family room" where the TV is to start the home theatre.

At PRESENT I'm not planning on putting a TV in the listening room (or living room as SWMBO insists on calling it). This room is approximately 17x20 with 9+ foot ceiling, wood floor, corner hutches in two corners and a couple other large antique pieces. There are NO BOOKSHELVES on which to place speakers so I'm going to have to wall mount or floor stand everything. And she really DOESN'T want floor standing units.

I grabbed a half dozen of the disks we listen to:

Roger Norrington Beethoven Symphony #9 - movement 2 has nice dynamic range and movement 4 has those voices doing "Ode to Joy"
Academy of Ancient Music Beethoven Symphony #5 - With ancient instruments its smooth and there isn't the tendency of some orchestras to get nuts with dynamic range.
Michael ? on the Organ at Wurtzburg playing Bach - on the Toccata and Fugue he hits the 25Hz base note. Fun to see what the sub will do...
Bob James All Around the Town - horns, sax, piano, good for jazz
Haley Westenra Pure - female voice on Heaven
Fleetwood Mac - about as "rocky" as we get - I forget which disc it is but its representative of FM...


So, I figured, this can't be VERY hard, technology has to have improved a ton in the last 12 years. And off I went to BB to find a great system - B*** OM-10 or OM-15... After listening for 5 or so minutes I went and found a droid and asked if the sub was hooked up? Said it was... I asked if ALL the speakers were actually working... Was told "Yeah, this is the way its SUPPOSED to sound, ain't it great." Didn't comment... Switched to a with the small KLH sats...... Shortly after I left convinced that I was either going to be WITHOUT A STEREO or be divorced... 'Cause I had to listen to EITHER of those pieces of dreck I'd rather live in silence.

Off to C****** C***. Where I found a couple guys checking subwoofers... Not $50 subwoofers. $500 - $800 subwoofers... Of the half dozen they had lined up, at least two of them has VERY audible buzzes everytime they played a note, a couple had that bizarre airy "whoomp" you get when the thing isn't even TRYING to follow the music, one of them made an audible clank that I presume was the death rattle of the magnet slamming something, and the other was so muddy I don't know WHAT it was doing... The salesdroid was hyping a couple of them with the standard "see how great that sounds"... Again, I left and went home, very depressed...

Hit THIRD place that had the B*** Lifestyle 48... Figured at this ludicrously high price this thing MUST be incredible... Well, y'all know what happened. Home again, empty handed, convinced I may as well buy a table radio and just get it over with.

Came here and started lurking... Got ideas, went back to the place where I
bought the last system... You have NO IDEA how relieved I was... I listened to the Gallo A'Diva Ti, which I thought were beautiful when paired with their TRS sub (the round, two piece one), Spendor bookshelves which I didn't like as much, and the Sonus Faber Wall Domus that I thought were ALSO very nice. All driven by the NAD 352 amp through a Reva Planet CD player. By his own admission the amp was a little small for the purpose and going to the 372 would provide better capability... Either way, these sounded wonderful and I now have hope... Especially the Gallos, which developed more base as they were moved closer to the wall, which mine would be using the wall mounts... The Sonus Fabers were clear and wide but I believe the Gallos were sharper, maybe just a little brighter? and they felt like it was easy to find the sound source location through them.

Leaving this place I decided I should give the BB "magnolia" store a try where I should CERTAINLY be able to find things with the same quality in great quantity... OK, I'm a big donkey... After wasting another hour I realized it was NOT going to be BB period since I tried BA from the Micro 120 up to the CR-57 and NONE of them handled the music very well. Same for the small Definitives...

So now you've heard my long, boring trip through audio hell... As I said at the beginning I'm not an audiophile, so I need recommendations:

I'm figuring on putting in 4 of whatever I go with - A'diva Ti fronts with Nucleus Ti rears or A'Divas all around OR Sonus Faber Wall Domus front and rear OR SOMETHING ELSE IF Y'ALL HAVE A RECOMMENDATION. Later if I do the HT thing in this room I'll add whatever I need to get to 6.1 or 7.1 or by then maybe 900.1...

Money is a consideration but its NOT number 1 - I figure this isn't something I need to do every month so an extra couple hundred dollars isn't going to matter if it gets me what I need to be happy AND keep the WAF high.

Speakers - I like the Gallos, the Sonus Fabers, and I'd be willing to try the Orbs if y'all think they'll really outperform the Gallos.

I'm planning on keeping my current AM/FM tuner so I don't NECESSARILY need one.

Preamp/Amp? I figure I need something in the range of 100W to 150W per channel. There's no TV right NOW but I'm not going to state that there will NEVER be one so I'm perfectly willing to get something that'll handle decoding and processing for future needs...

My CD player is making some undesirable squeaks and actual CD noises so its a goner... I figure I got 12 years out of it, its time for a good replacement.

Please have at it, PLEASE don't take it personally if I tested and didn't like a speaker that you're in love with... I was in poor rooms with badly set up equipment run by half-witted 17-year-olds that can't get jobs making fries at McDonalds and besides I have 50+ year-old ears that aren't as good as they used to be but are still pretty picky about harsh, screechy highs and missing bass notes... So point me in a new direction or just give me ideas for the pieces I need in addition to one of the speakers I've already heard...

thanks in advance.

 

[ltheis]

I personaly would suggest Polk's RM series, they don't seem to be as harsh as most of the other guys.

 

[jaxvon]

What kind of size limit is there on your satellites? Would bookshelves be okay? There are a ton of great sounding bookshelves out there that you can love. But as far as tiny speakers go, the Orbs and Gallos are probably the way to go.

 

[jcPanny]

Small speakers

Dave,
Congrats on your assesment of the Bose systems and all other offerings from big box stores. You are on the right track.

Since you will be starting with a 2 channel system you might consider the Gallo Due' or the Orb Audio system with 2-woofers for each channel. For this type of small speaker, these are said to perfrom well.
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/OrbAudioMod2p1.php
However, physics and common sense tell us that a 3" woofer and no tweeters will only be able to produce a portion of the audio spectrum.

Take a look at the bookshef speakers in Ray's shootout review. Will the size or look of any of these models pass the WAF test? If not consider investigating on wall or in-wall speakers including the following new offerings from Axiom audio. They offer a good compromise of bookshelf perfromance with unobtrusive mounting and several finish options.
http://www.axiomaudio.com/wallspeakers.html

Regaurdless of which speakers you choose. You will need a sub to faithfull reproduce the low frequencies. SVS and HSU make some of the best and biggest subs. For your purposes, the Rocket ULW-10 would be a great musical subwoofer with a good compromize of size, asthetics, and perfromance.
http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=subwoofers&product=6.1

 

[Sheep]

However, physics and common sense tell us that a 3" woofer and no tweeters will only be able to produce a portion of the audio spectrum.

Logitech Z5500 uses a 3inch full range woofer and it reaches all the way up to 20Khz (or so). Yes it has a peak at about 3 Khz and 15KHz, but the whole system costs 300bucks.

Don't discount small drivers so fast.

SheepStar

 

[AudioSeer]

I've owned Vandersteen 2CE's before. They are a great speaker. Since they are such a great value, you will need to spend a few bucks to get equivalent performance out of sub/sat combo.

The Vandersteens do look like black monoliths, however. Very low WAF.

Many higher end monitors have very nice veneers and sometimes artistic looks that blend in better with the room.

I compiled my own short list of high end monitors the last time that I was shopping for speakers to integrate into my living room (second 2-channel system). I'll share it with you.

B&W 805
Revel F30/F32
ATC SCM 7/12
Dynaudio Contour 1.4
Green Mountain Europa/Callisto
Von Schweikert VR-1
JM Lab Cobalt

I'll also second the recommendation on HSU subs (I have no experience with SVS). If you get a Paradigm X-30 crossover and run it between your preamp and amp, it will clean up your mids and highs.

Have fun auditioning!

 

[davepinminn]

thanks for the feedback guys... Its helpful to get pointed in a useful direction. Part of my problem with bookshelf speakers is I have NO bookshelves... The corner hutches are glass fronted and the other BIG piece in the room also has no open shelves... I have a very narrow wallspace for the front speakers to go on, and a pretty restricted area for the rears, which will actually be on the sides about 3-4 feet from the back wall.

So, I figured wall mounted speakers was going to be the way to go... BUT, all the larger wall mounts have a VERY SMALL WAF... She wants to maintain the period look of the room, which includes the turn-of-the-century pieces. And DOES NOT include modern looking wall speakers with metal grills and so on and so on... SO, smaller is better, BUT, now myh problem comes in... If it sounds horrendous I may as well not bother...... Thus, Gallo, Sonus Faber, possibly Orb... The Gallos will be pretty easy to sell - I get them in white and they're small, softball sized speakers that are close to the well and unobtrusive. The Wall Domus I can probably sell if I put them up higher on the wall - which is ok 'cause thay fire at an angle anyway...

Bookshelves, not so much... I suppose if I found bookshelves I really liked I could maybe BUILD shelves or brackets or something to make them work...

As far as the subwoofer - I believe I can find a spot for any normal-sized sub that'll keep it in a position to work well. I'll check out the brands recommended...

BTW: Is anybody out there actually USING the Orbs that's also checked out the Gallos?

 

[westcott]

Whatever speaker you choose to mount to the wall, should you decide to take this route, make sure it is designed\ported to the front. This is very important since you are already compromising the ideal placement.

I strongly recommend some high end floor standers or bookshelf speakers.

Here is a link to help you pick a DVD player.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all

Good Luck and enjoy the ride. I find auditioning speakers is the funnest part of the whole thing, brainless wonders and all!!!

Do you have any boutique stores where you live? This might be a better place to located knowledgable people and high quality equipment.

 

[jaxvon]

Most people use speaker stands for their bookshelf speakers. I'm sure you can find a speaker stand that would fit the decor of your room. Perhaps one of the offerings from AV123. Their bookshelves are *PURDY*.

www.av123.com

 

[davepinminn]

OK, back to the original situation...............

Hundred year-old, formal living room with 10', authentic tin ceiling, hardwood floor, period mahogany corner hutches and large china cabinet.

Dragged my wife out to look at speakers tonight... NO BOOKSHELVES. We have no bookshelves and when I said I could wall mount them she was WAY LESS THAN ENTHUSIASTIC... NO FLOOR STANDING. They'll be goofed up by the open french doors and she wants UNOBTRUSIVE!

So, after looking and listening to several speakers we tried the Vienna's (I forget the model but its the wall mount), which didn't sound very good - rather harsh and scratchy but that may have been the amplifier.

Then we tried the Gallo's and Sonus Faber Wall Domus. She liked both until I explained that the Gallo's would be mounted to the wall 36" above the floor... As she put it - NO ugly little balls sticking out of the walls of the room... And, unfortunately, she's right about the french doors interfering
with anything that low...............

SO, here's the new question - Can I amount the Gallo A'Diva Ti speakers high enough on the wall that they'll be ABOVE the door? If I understand it correctly the wall mount is adjustable so I can point the speaker downward, but will mounting them high enough to be unobtrusive cause bizarre things to happen to the soundstage? How detrimental will the effect be - presuming there is an undesirable impact... AND, will my placement of the subwoofer be affected by the placement of the speakers high on the wall?

 

[jaxvon]

Idea: If you can find a cabinet that suits the decor, it would be possible to have the doors modified for grill covers (have wifey choose the fabric) so you can put sealed bookshelves inside. It might not work, but it's worth a try!