EMP E5Ti vs Arx A1?

[afterlife2]

I've been looking at these for the last couple of days and was wondering If someone has heard both? or which one would be your choice? I'm digging the Tweeter(3 inches) on the Arx A1. I like clarity no treble completely off. Please lets just keep it to these 2 speakers companies. Thanks!
The Ugly:
Arx A1
or
The Pretty:
EMP Tek Clearance E5Ti Tower Speakers

 

[gtpsuper24]

I haven't heard the EMP but I do have the Arx and I replaced all my Axiom speakers with Arx speakers and IMO they are a much better engineered speaker, the planar tweeter is awesome and the woofers are almost impossible to get to distort. I replace the almost $500 M22s with Arx A1s. Wish I got the Arx much sooner than I did, zero regrets. The A3 tower for the price is a steal at $499.

 

[afterlife2]

Thanks gtpsuper24. Anything negative about them or any nitpick? It's a long wait to get them in May. It can't even found used anywhere.

 

[gtpsuper24]

I don't have any nitpicks really, except that the banana plugs slip out of the speaker terminal really easy. Yeah, the old A1s are out of stock, but the new A1b will be available in May.

 

[GranteedEV]

The ARX i'm sure use good drivers, but I have my reservations.

They've never once been measured by a 3rd party, and they won't supply 1st party on/off axis response measurements upon request (instead you get an email lecture about measurements...)

The EMPs are a good speaker. If you can step up to the clearance E55Tis i recommend it, though.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't trust any DIY/ Direct-Internet "company" that don't have pseudo-anechoic, anechoic, or outdoor measurements of on-axis & off-axis responses.

It tells me they have something to hide.

But the speakers may still sound great to some people.

Better audition for yourself, though.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...use good drivers, but...
They've never once been measured by a 3rd party, and they won't supply 1st party on/off axis response measurements upon request...

Sounds familiar.

JTR Speakers will not supply any kind of measurements either.

Do Seaton speakers have measurements?

Seems like a lot of speaker companies don't either.

 

[GranteedEV]

JTR Speakers will not supply any kind of measurements either.

Yeah, but those at least offer something the competition doesn't... the ability to get ridiculously loud without compression

Do Seaton speakers have measurements?

He supplies phase and on-axis response, but we both know that won't tell much.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, but those at least offer something the competition doesn't... the ability to get ridiculously loud without compression

Won't those professional cab speakers from JBL do the same?

http://www.amazon.com/JBL-JRX125-500-watt-Portable-Loudspeaker/dp/B0002GJTO0/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1329880066&sr=8-7

OK, sorry, we now return to our regular scheduled program.

 

[gtpsuper24]

They've never once been measured by a 3rd party, and they won't supply 1st party on/off axis response measurements upon request (instead you get an email lecture about measurements...)

I emailed several companies about this and got the same response or similar response from all of them, including Aperion Audio. So Arx isn't in the minority or hiding anything.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I emailed several companies about this and got the same response or similar response from all of them, including Aperion Audio. So Arx isn't in the minority or hiding anything.

What if all these companies are hiding something?

If they had great on-axis & off-axis, they would all brag about it. Wouldn't they?

How would having great measurements hurt your company?

But bad measurements would hurt. Better to have no measurements than bad ones.

 

[alphaiii]

I emailed several companies about this and got the same response or similar response from all of them, including Aperion Audio. So Arx isn't in the minority or hiding anything.

Just FYI, Aperion does post on-axis psuedo-anechoic measurements on their website...

And there are published 3rd party measurements in various review magazines (Soundstage, Home Theater, Ultimate AV Mag, Sound & Visions)... the most comprehensive of which are probably the measurements of the Verus Grand bookshelf done by Soundstage...

This isn't to say The Audio Insider is hiding anything with respect to the Arx brand... It's just to clarify that at least some of the measurements mentioned are available for Aperion's products.

 

[kini]

Isn't there a REALLY long thread about this? Manufacturer measurements all need to be taken with a large grain of salt.

"Independent" third party measurements are still not infallible and subject to outside influence and human error. Plus they really don't tell much at all about how the speaker actually sounds in room.

Plus, there is nothing preventing you or anyone else from taking advantage of most ID companies 30 day trials to listen for yourself or have them measured by an "independent" third party of your choice.

 

[gtpsuper24]

JTR, Paradigm, Monitor Audio, Emotiva, PSB, Elemental Designs, EMP Tek, Polk Audio, GoldenEar, Definitive Technology, CHT, Pinnacle Speakers, SVS, HSU Research.

All do not have measurements on their websites, it looks very similar to what Jon at TAI lists for Arx speakers. Its just any time Arx is mentioned on this forum and this one only they get an overly critical response, for doing the same thing as all the other brands do, does it make all the other brands look bad like you guys say Arx is? Why are all these brands hiding their measurements?

Do they have something to hide? Paradigm has some very expensive speaker, yet no measurements and very little if any 3rd party measurements. But that seems ok that a $7,000 pair of towers doesn't have any measurements, but watch out the $249 Arx bookshelfs don't have any. Arx is budget speakers, they keep their prices low by bland basic veneers, no adveristising, and they don't pay review sites to review their products, its word of mouth marketing.

 

[gtpsuper24]

"The A5 is a new inexpensive speaker that uses unbelievably long throw XBL^2 midwoofers and a planar tweeter and about 90db sensitivity with an easy to drive impedance. It's currently scheduled for a pre-release groupbuy if anyone is interested. The preliminary report I've read so far is that it'll be an outstanding value even at its MSRP with great dynamics, copper shorting rings for low distortion, and what appears to be a well done crossover. Maybe someone at HTS wants to order a pair and review it for us

Read more: ARX speakers - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com"

GranteedEV quote from 10/19/2011 from HTS.

Wow you kind have changed your opinion on Arx without ever even listening to them. What has changed that you go from great dynamics, well done crossovers, outstanding value. To, I have my reservations and no 3rd party tests

Kind of a total 180 without every even listening to them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Paradigm has some very expensive speaker, yet no measurements and very little if any 3rd party measurements. But that seems ok that a $7,000 pair of towers doesn't have any measurements, but watch out the $249 Arx bookshelfs don't have any. Arx is budget speakers, they keep their prices low by bland basic veneers, no adveristising, and they don't pay review sites to review their products, its word of mouth marketing.

Paradigm, Revel, KEF, DefTech, GoldenEar, B&W, and all the big boys have Soundstage/NRC, Stereophile, Home Theater Magazine, & Sound & Vision to measure their speakers.

Salk, Ascend, & Philharmonic are relatively small, yet they have plenty of pseudo anechoic measurements on their websites.

SoundStage! Measurements - Paradigm Reference Signature S1 v.2 Loudspeakers (12/2007)

SoundStage! Measurements - Paradigm Atom Loudspeaker Measurements (5/2000)

SoundStage! Measurements - Paradigm Reference Signature S2 Loudspeakers (6/2004)

SoundStage! Measurements - Paradigm Reference Signature S8 Loudspeakers (9/2004)

SoundStage! Measurements - Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v.3 Loudspeakers (11/2003)

SoundStage! Measurements - Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.5 Loudspeakers (5/2009)

I can probably list 10 more 3rd party measurements for Paradigm.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...without ever even listening to them... and no 3rd party tests...

That is the key right there.

You have listened to them, so you can recommend them.

But how can the rest of us recommend them if we have never auditioned them and there are no measurements whatsoever for us to evaluate and form an "educated opinion"?

Hence, we have reservations. We are not saying they don't sound good, we just have nothing else to go by, besides a few owner's opinions.

 

[GranteedEV]

Wow you kind have changed your opinion on Arx without ever even listening to them. What has changed that you go from great dynamics, well done crossovers, outstanding value.

....I've read so far....what appears to be...

I'm sure they have nice dynamics, but the problem is you can't judge any crossover without hearing it, especially if there isn't half a measurement available. To do so would be silly. I never changed my mind, they just failed to supply any further information.

JTR, Paradigm, Monitor Audio, Emotiva, PSB, Elemental Designs, EMP Tek, Polk Audio, GoldenEar, Definitive Technology, CHT, Pinnacle Speakers, SVS, HSU Research.

All do not have measurements on their websites, it looks very similar to what Jon at TAI lists for Arx speakers. Its just any time Arx is mentioned on this forum and this one only they get an overly critical response, for doing the same thing as all the other brands do, does it make all the other brands look bad like you guys say Arx is? Why are all these brands hiding their measurements?

First of all, SVS has some of the most comprehensive first party measurement documents out there.

Second, EMP, and PSB have been measured and reviewed by a 3rd party. I also happen to own a pair of EMPs.

Third, I would not likely buy Polk Audio, Paradigm, Emotiva, Elemental Designs, GoldenEar, Definitive Technology, CHT, Pinnacle Speakers anyways.

As far as the HSUs are concerned, I'm not really interested in 99% of horn speakers either, although they appear to be well-designed speakers with controlled on and off-axis response, which does set them apart from the pack.

Fourth, the difference between ARX and Def Tech, for example, is that one can go to a dealer and listen to def tech before making any order or payment.

I realize as an owner you must be defensive about the brand, but that's no excuse to accuse me of doing a 180. The reality is another person's subjective reviews never tell me what I myself will hear.

If you really love them so much, take a measurement microphone, and do quasi-anechoic on/off frequency response graphs @ 0 deg, 15 deg vertical, 15 degree horizontal, 30 degree horizontal, 45 degree horizontal, 60 degree horizontal, and then post them for us. Don't use any more than 1/10th of an octave smoothing. If they measure well, we'll probably recommend them.

 

[alphaiii]

Isn't there a REALLY long thread about this? Manufacturer measurements all need to be taken with a large grain of salt.

"Independent" third party measurements are still not infallible and subject to outside influence and human error. Plus they really don't tell much at all about how the speaker actually sounds in room.

Plus, there is nothing preventing you or anyone else from taking advantage of most ID companies 30 day trials to listen for yourself or have them measured by an "independent" third party of your choice.

Very true... and because sound is so subjective, in-home demo is a must.

The thing that has kept me from every demo-ing Arx speakers is the shipping costs both ways. Of course, companies that offer free shipping, or no-risk trials with free shipping both ways, just have those costs built in to the pricing in the first place.

Still, I guess I appreciate the peace of mind knowing that I can return something without taking any financial loss if I don't like it, despite knowing I'm paying more for the product as a result...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Very true... and because sound is so subjective, in-home demo is a must.

The thing that has kept me from every demo-ing Arx speakers is the shipping costs both ways. Of course, companies that offer free shipping, or no-risk trials with free shipping both ways, just have those costs built in to the pricing in the first place.

Still, I guess I appreciate the peace of mind knowing that I can return something without taking any financial loss if I don't like it, despite knowing I'm paying more for the product as a result...

Absolutely.

Measurements are clearly not everything. But without auditioning, some measurements would ease my mind a little.

Audition - no
Measurements - no
30 day trial free return - no
Recommendation - no

I see no choice but to give my recommendation to the EMP here.