Emotiva XPA1 Monos vs ATI AT3002

[Docks]

These appear to be around the same price, from what I understand these are both pretty solid amps. Does anyone have test results of these devices?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The AT3002 is essentially the $9,000 Mark Levinson No. 532H amp, except, of course, buit to Mark Levinson specification and much prettier Mark Levinson aesthetic.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no532h-power-amplifier-measurements

http://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no532h-power-amplifier

The ML 532H also has the best SNR ever measured on Stereophile (Stereophile measurements differ from HTM, S&V, and everyone else, of course).

The Emotiva seems to produce more power on the test bench, but the AT3002 will have Mark Levinson type measurements - SNR in the -120dB, Crosstalk in the -100dB @ 20kHz, etc.

ATI makes amps for Mark Levinson, Lexicon, Cary Audio, Theta Digital, B&K, etc, owning the later two.

ATI is made in California,USA, Emotiva is made in China. ATI has a 7 yr warranty, Emotiva 5 yr.

I'm betting the ATI is "nicer" and better built.

But I also bet their SQ is the same in the end.

I would take the ATI, and owning 4 ATI amps has nothing to do with it.

 

[slipperybidness]

The AT3002 is essentially the $9,000 Mark Levinson No. 532H amp, except, of course, buit to Mark Levinson specification and much prettier Mark Levinson aesthetic.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no532h-power-amplifier-measurements

http://www.stereophile.com/content/mark-levinson-no532h-power-amplifier

The ML 532H also has the best SNR ever measured on Stereophile (Stereophile measurements differ from HTM, S&V, and everyone else, of course).

The Emotiva seems to produce more power on the test bench, but the AT3002 will have Mark Levinson type measurements - SNR in the -120dB, Crosstalk in the -100dB @ 20kHz, etc.

ATI makes amps for Mark Levinson, Lexicon, Cary Audio, Theta Digital, B&K, etc, owning the later two.

ATI is made in California,USA, Emotiva is made in China. ATI has a 7 yr warranty, Emotiva 5 yr.

I'm betting the ATI is "nicer" and better built.

But I also bet their SQ is the same in the end.

I would take the ATI, and owning 4 ATI amps has nothing to do with it.

I agree, probably no significant SQ difference. Of course with monoblocks, it eliminates any chance of crosstalk. The tradeoff is double the real estate.

 

[Docks]

Sooo monos= no crosstalk. Here are measurements at 8 ohms.
http://emotiva.com/resources/media/xpa1/xpa1_8ohm.pdf
Are you guys sure ur not underestimating the xpa1?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Are you guys sure ur not underestimating the xpa1?

Maybe, but to fit into that price point with 500W Class AB monoblocks at that power level there are going to be compromises. The question is, will they be significant to you? In my case they were, so I chose the ATI, but it was a personal choice based on my own weighting of priorities. You might have different priorities.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sooo monos= no crosstalk. Here are measurements at 8 ohms.
http://emotiva.com/resources/media/xpa1/xpa1_8ohm.pdf
Are you guys sure ur not underestimating the xpa1?

One point is, to get a crosstalk of -100dB on Stereophile on a stereo amp requires some serious quality.

To get the best SNR also requires some serious quality, especially compared to other amps that cost over $50,000.

Quality through and through.

For Irv and me (and others), a lab meaured power output under ideal testing isn't the most important factor.

But everyone must weigh the factors on a personal basis.

 

[jinjuku]

One point is, to get a crosstalk of -100dB on Stereophile on a stereo amp requires some serious quality.

Or 1000000000000.... ok actually ∞ times better by getting two amps and monoblocking it.

-100dB Cross Talk is a nice marketing # for sure. Would rather they chase something else that mattered.

Without knowing the build process (type of PCB, layers of, assembly process, component selection process) I would say the XPA-1 is built as every bit well as the Levinson. There is a lot of trading on name on that count. The pics posted don't lead me believe the build quality is actually any better.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Without knowing the build process (type of PCB, layers of, assembly process, component selection process) I would say the XPA-1 is built as every bit well as the Levinson. There is a lot of trading on name on that count. The pics posted don't lead me believe the build quality is actually any better.

I sort of agree, though I think ADTG's point was that the ATI was built the same way as the Levinson, not that the Levinson was somehow superior. Except for their reference products I don't think Levinson is special in the way they were when Madrigal owned them. Back then they did stuff like cyanate-ester circuit boards, copper buss bars for the output stage, and hand matched bipolars, even on "reasonably priced" (ha!) models. The new stuff is either ridiculously priced for something special, or just trading on the name, as you say.

Emotiva's own measurements do make me wonder a bit. For example, they seem to say they measured the XPA-1's SNR only at 1KHz for the test report. What's up with that? It also looks like it's measured at full power. That would be a good way to get a really good number, but if my interpretation is correct it doesn't tell us anything useful.

Finally, my ERC-2 CD player has put a somewhat bad taste in my mouth about Emotiva parts quality. Not that their products aren't remarkable values (name another 500w Class AB monoblock with balanced topology for $1K), but because they are making quality compromises, and those compromises just rub me the wrong way. Also, an amp so powerful it could blow up my speakers should be from a company that instills more confidence, IMHO.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

SQ aside, there is no way the Emotiva is the same build quality as the ATI/ Mark Levinson. I've also owned the Emotiva MPS-2, and it's decent. But Emotiva build quality, fit and finish is definitely not to the high standard as ATI amps.

 

[jinjuku]

SQ aside, there is no way the Emotiva is the same build quality as the ATI/ Mark Levinson. I've also owned the Emotiva MPS-2, and it's decent. But Emotiva build quality, fit and finish is definitely not to the high standard as ATI amps.

I'm only talking about the XPA-1. Thing is of high build quality.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Without knowing the build process (type of PCB, layers of, assembly process, component selection process) I would say the XPA-1 is built as every bit well as the Levinson.

Emotiva is every bit as well built as Mark Levinson?

R ------------ I --------------- G ---------------- H ----------------- T

 

[GranteedEV]

Emotiva is every bit as well built as Mark Levinson?

R ------------ I --------------- G ---------------- H ----------------- T

Mark doesn't look too well built to me?

 

[jinjuku]

Emotiva is every bit as well built as Mark Levinson?

R ------------ I --------------- G ---------------- H ----------------- T

Bet you a pair of XPA-1's to the 532H that they'll both be running in spec 10 years from now...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Bet you a pair of XPA-1's to the 532H that they'll both be running in spec 10 years from now...

I bet a $300 Pioneer or Denon or Yamaha AVR will still be working in 10 years too.

I'm not saying the Emotiva won't sound as good or last as long. I'm saying the fit and finish and build quality of the ATI & Mark Levinson is better.

A lot of people couldn't care less. Different point of view.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Mark doesn't look too well built to me?

Geez. Thanks a lot. You just ruined my image of Mark Levinson.

I thought he looked like this all this time:

 

[jinjuku]

I bet a $300 Pioneer or Denon or Yamaha AVR will still be working in 10 years too.

I'm not saying the Emotiva won't sound as good or last as long. I'm saying the fit and finish and build quality of the ATI & Mark Levinson is better.

A lot of people couldn't care less. Different point of view.

Have you ever had hands on the XPA - 1? I have... The build quality is top notch. Not sure what isn't fit and finished on the XPA-1. You have me scratching my head of over the perceived lack of build quality on this?

 

[slipperybidness]

Have you ever had hands on the XPA - 1? I have... The build quality is top notch. Not sure what isn't fit and finished on the XPA-1. You have me scratching my head of over the perceived lack of build quality on this?

Come on. ADTG is ATI fanboy

 

[jinjuku]

Hey, I'm an ATI fanboi I simply think the XPA-1 is a well built amp. Nothing that I saw about it spoke to poor fit and finish.

 

[Docks]

To mix things up, have any of you investigated hypex amps? I could make dual monos from these and have really good measurements.

http://www.hypex.nl/docs/NC400_datasheet.pdf

 

[FirstReflection]

Not to throw a wrench into this discussion, but I'd also consider the Anthem Statement P2 for this price range. I appreciate an amp that can literally power a fork that is short circuiting the binding posts