Emotiva deal for current owners - NE1 not gonna use it?

[frostbyte]

I am an Outlaw owner and outlaw does a similar deal for original owners. I want to switch to EMOTIVA when their new DMC-2 comes out since their deals for existing customers is better and their product looks a little better. Does anyone know if they will give this discount to a first time buyer? I would think if someone knows of the deal and is willing to switch that they would give at least some discount. If not then I can just wait for Outlaw to get their discount. Can you use the discount from Emotiva if that owner isn't going to upgrade?

Can someone explain how it works. It says you can use the upgrade for many different levels. So what would be the cheapest thing to buy that I could then upgrade to the new DMC-2 once it comes out? Seeing if there's a way around the high priced first time thing.

 

[jcPanny]

Emotiva upgrade

If you want to get the generous emotiva upgrade, then buy one of their current pre-pros. They currently have good discounts on most models. You will probably be able to get a package discount if you buy one of their new pre-pros and an amp.

With the only currently available HDMI pre-pro costing double the price of the LMC-2, I don't see why they would need or want to give additional discounts. I am not in a hurry to get HDMI audio so I plan to pick up an LMC-1 to match my LPA-1 amp.

 

[frostbyte]

Where did the response from Acudeftechguy go? Sounded quite interesting.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Where did the response from Acudeftechguy go? Sounded quite interesting.

What? You mean one of my responses got deleted?

I would like to know why too!

 

[frostbyte]

Many great preamps and pre-pros out there (Parasound, Mark Levinson, Krell, Acurus, and probably many more) have specs that are much better than the Emotiva.

For example, great ones have F.R. of 20Hz-20kHz +/-0.1dB, THD < 0.01%, Crosstalk < 90dB, Output Impedance < 50 ohms, SNR > 100, etc.

The Emotiva preamps and pre-pros don't stack up very well to these products on the specs.

Emotiva Crosstalk is < 70dB, F.R. is +/- 0.5dB, THD and output impedance are higher, and SNR is lower.

Can Emotiva IMPROVE?

This was your response. So do these specs mean you can hear the difference or just on paper? Any real world experience with their sound not being up to par? Have you had any experience or spec comparisons for Outlaw's 990 which is what I currently have?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This was your response. So do these specs mean you can hear the difference or just on paper? Any real world experience with their sound not being up to par? Have you had any experience or spec comparisons for Outlaw's 990 which is what I currently have?

My personal experience was comparing a true Class A Analog Preamp (no fancy DSP, tone controls, EQs, etc.) to receivers. I was trying to figure out if this preamp had CLEARER sound (with volume levels matched). My conclusion: Yes, the analog preamp had significantly clearer sound. Then I looked at the specs in RESTROPECT and found that the analog preamp had better specs, especically in CROSSTALK (-90dB) and Linear Frequency Response (20 Hz - 20 kHz +0.0dB, -0.1dB). I only noticed these specs recently.

Deep inside I was truly HOPING that an AV Receiver or Pre-pros (with lesser specs) could sound just as CLEAR as the analog stereo preamp. It would have made my choices a lot easier. I would have gotten the Onkyo 875. Things would have been simpler. But no. That damn analog preamp had to sound significantly better! Bastard preamp!

I did compare the sound quality of the Outlaw Pre-pros vs my analog preamp. The Outlaw sounded as good as the Harman Kardon AVR247, but still cannot beat my analog preamp in terms of sound clarity IMO. So I sent the Outlaw back. I cannot believe Outlaw charged me for shipping that thing back!

I have also compared the Onkyo 805, which I assume sounds just like the 875. Again, very good sound, but not as clear as my analog preamp IMO.

But perhaps I'm just being way too picky. And my experience is not a blinded study. Just my opinion. I'm sure they all sound the same.

But my thought was, if a $600 Parasound analog preamp can have specs as good as my Acurus analog preamp and as good as the high-end preamps, why can't the Emotiva preamps or pre-pros be as good?

Same with Outlaw pre-pros. The F.R. of the Outlaw is +/-1dB, which is not as good as Acurus (+/-0.1dB). Outlaw doesn't even list the Crosstalk/channel separation, which is one of the most important specs.

So, in real life listening, we probably can't hear any significant differences. Just because I thought numerous times that I could tell the difference really doesn't mean much.

 

[Tom Andry]

What? You mean one of my responses got deleted?

I would like to know why too!

According to the log, YOU deleted your post. Way to try to make the admins look bad.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

According to the log, YOU deleted your post. Way to try to make the admins look bad.

Oops, my bad. Sorry, guys.

I am going senile or something. My short-term memory and long-term memory are shot.

 

[dorokusai]

Outlaw should seriously get some aesthetics issues handled, as the gear is hideous. The performance is solid but hello! I wonder who's running the show for that.

Mark

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Outlaw should seriously get some aesthetics issues handled, as the gear is hideous. The performance is solid but hello! I wonder who's running the show for that.

Mark

I agree. The Outlaw amps and pre-pros are kind of on the ugly side.

 

[frostbyte]

It is definitely ugly, but it's worked great since I purchased it. That's what's most important to me. My only reason to upgrade is for HDMI audio/video and I hear as DTS Master and TrueHD are used that it makes a huge difference in sound so it will be worth the upgrade when I find the right processor. Maybe I'll stick with Outlaw since they give a $200 discount for previous owners.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It is definitely ugly, but it's worked great since I purchased it. That's what's most important to me. My only reason to upgrade is for HDMI audio/video and I hear as DTS Master and TrueHD are used that it makes a huge difference in sound so it will be worth the upgrade when I find the right processor. Maybe I'll stick with Outlaw since they give a $200 discount for previous owners.

So you can't experience TrueHD or LPCM right now?

Can't you let your HD player do the decoding and send the sound via HDMI1.1 as PCM?

 

[frostbyte]

I'm not sure, but I don't think so. I use a PS3 which I don't believe has TrueHD yet if ever. I have it using the fiber output for audio which I believe is PCM, but not sure if that's the correct wording. I have noticed a considerable sound improvement with the PS3 vs my old Sanyo $50 DVD, but I figured that was just a better player.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm not sure, but I don't think so. I use a PS3 which I don't believe has TrueHD yet if ever. I have it using the fiber output for audio which I believe is PCM, but not sure if that's the correct wording. I have noticed a considerable sound improvement with the PS3 vs my old Sanyo $50 DVD, but I figured that was just a better player.

The PS3 can actually decode TrueHD and send it via HDMI as PCM OUTPUT to your Pre-pros HDMI 1.1 Input.

So you are currently capable of getting both LPCM Uncompressed Audio and TrueHD, but you need to set the Video Output to PCM, not Bitstream. And don't use the fiber optic toslink, just use the HDMI cable.

 

[frostbyte]

I have an Outlaw 990 which has the wonderful and loved by all DVI instead of HDMI. Guess they chose wrong. ^_^ So I'd have to get a new processor to use the PS3's HDMI. I have another thread on that, but I may just wait for Outlaw's replacement that has HDMI audio capabilities.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have an Outlaw 990 which has the wonderful and loved by all DVI instead of HDMI. Guess they chose wrong. ^_^ So I'd have to get a new processor to use the PS3's HDMI. I have another thread on that, but I may just wait for Outlaw's replacement that has HDMI audio capabilities.

Too bad.

So you have the Outlaw Amp also?

But have they even mentioned a new pre-pros?

Here is the thing. The new Outlaw pre-pros will most likely be $1,000.

The Emotiva LMC-2 is around $600, and it will have four HDMI-1.3 inputs, TrueHD, & DTS-MA.

So even with the $200 Outlaw discount, you are looking at $800 vs. $600. The Emotiva will look better, and you get the 5 year warranty.

 

[frostbyte]

Weren't you the one saying how bad the crosstalk was on Emotiva processors? I was thinking about the DCM-2 when it comes out, but that's suppose to be $1600 or so so maybe the LMC-2 would be a good option. I'd also guess the new Outlaw would be at least as much as the 990 was when new at $1100 and if so then it'll still be $900 just to get HDMI audio capabilities. I didn't notice any real difference from the Theta processor going to the Outlaw so maybe going to the LMC-2 won't be much audible difference either. We'll see once they come out.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Weren't you the one saying how bad the crosstalk was on Emotiva processors? I was thinking about the DCM-2 when it comes out, but that's suppose to be $1600 or so so maybe the LMC-2 would be a good option. I'd also guess the new Outlaw would be at least as much as the 990 was when new at $1100 and if so then it'll still be $900 just to get HDMI audio capabilities. I didn't notice any real difference from the Theta processor going to the Outlaw so maybe going to the LMC-2 won't be much audible difference either. We'll see once they come out.

Well, yeah, spec-wise, I'm not all that impressed with the crosstalk of the Emotiva preamps and pre-pros. But I don't think Outlaw is any better than Emotiva. For one thing, Outlaw doesn't even list the CROSSTALK for any of their pre-pros or receivers!

It's funny how Outlaw list the crosstalk for every single amplifier (>90dB, which is good), but they never even list the crosstalk for any pre-pros or receiver! Now isn't that convenient? To list only the good specs, but leave out the others like cross talk and output impedance?

Anyway, a lot of people don't think that much of all this spec. The fact is, Outlaw sounds great and so does Emotiva regardless of spec. So the real factors include features, price, aesthetics, service, and warranty.

 

[frostbyte]

I forgot to mention that my amp is a Sherbourn, not Outlaw. May not be much difference, but this Sherbourn is amazingly powerful. If I remember right it's 200 x 7 and has 2 power plugs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I forgot to mention that my amp is a Sherbourn, not Outlaw. May not be much difference, but this Sherbourn is amazingly powerful. If I remember right it's 200 x 7 and has 2 power plugs.

Oh, goodness, if you have the Sherbourn, then you should definitely get either the new Sherbourn pre-pros when it comes out, or get the Emotiva LMC-2. I think the aesthetics of the Emotiva matches the Sherbourn a lot better than Outlaw. If I remember correctly, the Sherbourn amp is a lot more like the Emotiva MPS-2 than the Outlaw amp. The Sherbourn uses 7 mono-blocks with 7 teroidal transformers just like the Emotiva MPS-2.

Go with the Emotiva LMC-2!

I am telling you, the looks of Sherbourn and Emotiva are a lot prettier than Outlaw. Performance-wise, they probably all sound the same with all their amps and pre-pros.