Elac Debut 2.0 In Stock @ Best Buy Magnolia

[NYSoundGuy]

Just went to my local Magnolia and they had the Elac Debut 2.0 F6 set up in the audio room. They had those and the Debut 2.0 B6 in stock. I picked up a pair of the Debut 2.0 F6's to replace my Klipsch RP280F's in my main system. I'm super excited to get home from work and get them set up. I hope my Marantz PM6005 is enough power (if not I have an older Yamaha RX V795 that I can hook up with more power)

 

[KEW]

Just went to my local Magnolia and they had the Elac Debut 2.0 F6 set up in the audio room. They had those and the Debut 2.0 B6 in stock. I picked up a pair of the Debut 2.0 F6's to replace my Klipsch RP280F's in my main system. I'm super excited to get home from work and get them set up. I hope my Marantz PM6005 is enough power (if not I have an older Yamaha RX V795 that I can hook up with more power)

I'd be interested in hearing your impressions of how the Debut compares to the Klipsch!

 

[NYSoundGuy]

Well my first impressions are that they (the F6.2) are a little bright, but these are not set up in main listening area since my wife has that temporarily hijacked with an in home book fair she's doing.

Once I get them up in my main set up powered by my PM6005 with the ability to A/B to my RP280F's then I will be able to make a better judgement. I will also be better able to determine imaging and soundstage (which in the set-up they are in now is not too impressive).

I listened to the F6.2's with a wide variety of material(Diana Krall CD, Dire Straits SACD, Pink Floyd CD, Wu-Tang CD, Dave Matthews Band Spotify, Phil Collins Spotify)

Initial impressions (again not final and not in my planned set-up):
- Bright
- Good inner detail
- Revealing yet friendly to poorly recorded material
- Tight bass (not an overwhelming amount - which to me is good)
- Narrow soundstage (probably related to my temporary set up)
- Not great imaging (probably related to my temporary set up)


I did not listen to them with the speakers set up as in my pic above - since I'm new here and I wanted to prove I'm not a troll and actually have the speakers and other speakers to compare to. My experience with other Andrew Jones designs (Pioneer BS22 & FS22, Elac B6) has been that the top end was polite - so I am surprised with my impression of bright and a little fatigue (which is why I am trying to replace my RP280F's)

Shockingly the RP150M's which are in my pic and my main speakers in my basement set up are not fatiguing or bright and image and soundstage like crazy. Honestly the RP150M's compare (IMHO) very favorably to the Paradigm Prestige 15B's (which I do not own but have heard a few times). The RP160M's which are the size up from the 150M's were decidedly brighter possibly because of the larger horn and also I noticed that the tweeters in the 160M's are stamped with a different part number than the 150M's.

But I digress this post is about the F6.2's and not about my RP150M's which I have nothing but gushing praise for.

 

[NYSoundGuy]

Pic of hijacking and another shot of F6.2's

 

[KEW]

Interesting!
Based on these first pass comments, it sounds like the sound character of the Debut went through a major change! You used the term "polite" for the Debut #1 and I referred to it as "dull" because playing Big Band Jazz on them sucked the energy out of the music (I play in a couple of Big Bands)!
Maybe I was being overly harsh because all of the hype had led me to expect a "new benchmark" product and I felt they fell short of the mark (the $210/pr. Philharmonic Affordable Accuracy speakers easily beat them - having a balanced high frequency presentation and providing more detail to boot)!

I'm kind of glad that they made the Debut #2 more bright (hopefully not too bright).
Do you like your RP280F's as much as your 150's?
I have RF-82ii's and while I really like them for HT, they are a bit bright for music. I think Klipsch really did a great job of tuning the RP series and sorting out the previous issues with the horns (but have only heard the bookshelf versions)!

I feel the second generation of Pioneer A. Jones speakers are the best speakers available at their price point. Hopefully the same will be true of the second generation Debut!

 

[NYSoundGuy]

I like the 150M's a lot more than the RP280's! The 280F's are a bit too bright for my liking and the 150M's image and soundstage so much better (might be the room and set-up). I just think my living room is too large for the 150M's (24' x 20' vaulted ceiling and fairly open to kitchen) otherwise I would just get another pair for up there.

I agree that the second generation AJ Pioneer's are still the best speaker at that price point. My BS22's are one of the speakers I've kept the longest (I still have them after 3 or 4 years). The other pair that I have kept for a at least 10 years is Paradigm Atom Monitor V2 t (they were hand me downs from my dad along with a pair of Paradigm 11seMkiii's that I should never have sold).

 

[Ryan00]

View attachment 23749 Well my first impressions are that they (the F6.2) are a little bright, but these are not set up in main listening area since my wife has that temporarily hijacked with an in home book fair she's doing.

Once I get them up in my main set up powered by my PM6005 with the ability to A/B to my RP280F's then I will be able to make a better judgement. I will also be better able to determine imaging and soundstage (which in the set-up they are in now is not too impressive).

I listened to the F6.2's with a wide variety of material(Diana Krall CD, Dire Straits SACD, Pink Floyd CD, Wu-Tang CD, Dave Matthews Band Spotify, Phil Collins Spotify)

Initial impressions (again not final and not in my planned set-up):
- Bright
- Good inner detail
- Revealing yet friendly to poorly recorded material
- Tight bass (not an overwhelming amount - which to me is good)
- Narrow soundstage (probably related to my temporary set up)
- Not great imaging (probably related to my temporary set up)


I did not listen to them with the speakers set up as in my pic above - since I'm new here and I wanted to prove I'm not a troll and actually have the speakers and other speakers to compare to. My experience with other Andrew Jones designs (Pioneer BS22 & FS22, Elac B6) has been that the top end was polite - so I am surprised with my impression of bright and a little fatigue (which is why I am trying to replace my RP280F's)

Shockingly the RP150M's which are in my pic and my main speakers in my basement set up are not fatiguing or bright and image and soundstage like crazy. Honestly the RP150M's compare (IMHO) very favorably to the Paradigm Prestige 15B's (which I do not own but have heard a few times). The RP160M's which are the size up from the 150M's were decidedly brighter possibly because of the larger horn and also I noticed that the tweeters in the 160M's are stamped with a different part number than the 150M's.

But I digress this post is about the F6.2's and not about my RP150M's which I have nothing but gushing praise for.

Are we talking klipsch bright? Can you listen to them for hours?
I have the klipsch 52II now and I was going to get the elac f6 2.0 for a warm soundstage I’m kinda worried now

 

[KEW]

I like the 150M's a lot more than the RP280's! The 280F's are a bit too bright for my liking and the 150M's image and soundstage so much better (might be the room and set-up).

There might be other factors, but I would expect the 150's to image better because the tweeter and mid-woof are closer to each other. Taking it to the extreme, a concentric speaker like the KEF ls50 images like nobody's business!
Is the horn the same for the 150 and 280? Or did they go with a smaller horn on the 150?
Looking for a graph of the RP280f's FR, I found Brent Butterworth's measurements of the RP-280fa (adds ceiling-bounce atmos speaker). I wouldn't think the extra drivers up top would change the sound of the RP280f by much, but who knows?

He makes the following comment about brightness:

In the first chart, you can see that the RP-280FA delivers an impressively flat response on- and off-axis, but it has a slightly rising treble response, with about +1 to +2 dB of added output from 5 to 10 kHz. As a result, the off-axis averaged response is almost perfectly flat. Whether you perceive this as slightly bright or airy and detailed will depend on your taste in sound, the music you listen to, and how sonically absorptive your room furnishings are. Although the specs claim 32-Hz bass response, the best I was able to achieve was 37 Hz at ±3 dB, using a ground-plane measurement.

https://hometheaterreview.com/klipsch-rp-280fa-tower-speaker-reviewed/?page=2

 

[zieglj01]

The best listening should come from the main listening area -- I have owned a few AJ speakers -- and none have ever been Klipsch like bright, it tends to not be in his nature -- He did state that the new series would have better treble compared to the former series. I am interested in them, so time will tell.

 

[zieglj01]

Pic of hijacking and another shot of F6.2's

Looks like a lively room

 

[zieglj01]

Are we talking klipsch bright? Can you listen to them for hours?
I have the klipsch 52II now and I was going to get the elac f6 2.0 for a warm soundstage I’m kinda worried now

Audition for yourself in your own room -- no one can speak for your ears -- subjective reviews are still in the early stages

 

[NYSoundGuy]

Yes my living room is lively hence why I was going to sell the RP280’s on Craigslist and keep the F6.2’s (I wanted a warmer speaker in that room)

I moved the RP280s down to the basement to put them in the same environment as the F6.2’s and unfortunately my opinion was further reinforced. To my ears the F6.2’s are fatiguing which shocks me since the AJ designs I’ve heard in the past were always polite and warm.

Hopefully the F6.2’s I picked up are defective and that people end up loving the debut 2.0 series. I really did not want to bash this product. I respect AJ for his engineering ability and accessibility over the years.

KEW and Ryan... no I cannot listen to the F 6.2’s for very long which is why I’ve made the decision to return them. Yes I’m sure that the RP150m’s are more cohesive since the drivers are smaller and closer together.

 

[NYSoundGuy]

The F6.2’s are a smaller cabinet than the original F6 so maybe that has had a negative effect? As seen in my pic the RP280s are much larger (not apples to apples I know)

 

[zieglj01]

Yes my living room is lively hence why I was going to sell the RP280’s on Craigslist and keep the F6.2’s (I wanted a warmer speaker in that room)

I moved the RP280s down to the basement to put them in the same environment as the F6.2’s and unfortunately my opinion was further reinforced. To my ears the F6.2’s are fatiguing which shocks me since the AJ designs I’ve heard in the past were always polite and warm.

Maybe Andrew caved in to the so-called masses -- what are you doing with the Boston A towers?

 

[NYSoundGuy]

I’ve had the A250’s listed on Craigslist locally for a while - I was hoping to sell them so my wife can stop accusing me of hoarding speakers.

However, they are very polite on the top end - as I think you’re aware - they’re an easy speaker to listen to for a long time but certainly not the last word in detail.

We just bought this house a few months ago and the rooms in our previous home were more conducive to 2.0 set-ups (smaller, carpet and softer cellular window treatments)

 

[NYSoundGuy]

KEW the horn is much smaller in the 150M’s. I personally think that’s why they’re much less fatiguing than the RP280’s.

The 150M’s are pretty close to my max for top end sizzle - the 160M’s and 280’s both eclipse my threshold. Both the 160’s and 280’s use larger horns than the 150’s.

 

[Ryan00]

Yes my living room is lively hence why I was going to sell the RP280’s on Craigslist and keep the F6.2’s (I wanted a warmer speaker in that room)

I moved the RP280s down to the basement to put them in the same environment as the F6.2’s and unfortunately my opinion was further reinforced. To my ears the F6.2’s are fatiguing which shocks me since the AJ designs I’ve heard in the past were always polite and warm.

Hopefully the F6.2’s I picked up are defective and that people end up loving the debut 2.0 series. I really did not want to bash this product. I respect AJ for his engineering ability and accessibility over the years.

KEW and Ryan... no I cannot listen to the F 6.2’s for very long which is why I’ve made the decision to return them. Yes I’m sure that the RP150m’s are more cohesive since the drivers are smaller and closer together.

So your saying I might wanna look at the old f6 for a warmer sound stage. Is the bass the on the f6.2 the same as the f6 more or less? Sorry can’t find any reviews on these yet

 

[KEW]

KEW the horn is much smaller in the 150M’s. I personally think that’s why they’re much less fatiguing than the RP280’s.

The 150M’s are pretty close to my max for top end sizzle - the 160M’s and 280’s both eclipse my threshold. Both the 160’s and 280’s use larger horns than the 150’s.

Maybe, but you might consider moving your 280's and seeing how they sound in the room that has the 150's.

Looks like a lively room

As Zeiglj pointed out, you have a pretty live room and Brent Butterworth pointed out that:

Whether you perceive this as slightly bright or airy and detailed will depend on ... how sonically absorptive your room furnishings are.

I believe @yepimonfire has both rp150m and rp160m and perhaps he can comment on any differences in their sound.

It may be that a larger rug and some wall hangings would have your 280's sounding like the 150's, and it is free to test (aside from the time and effort/exercise).

 

[yepimonfire]

KEW the horn is much smaller in the 150M’s. I personally think that’s why they’re much less fatiguing than the RP280’s.

The 150M’s are pretty close to my max for top end sizzle - the 160M’s and 280’s both eclipse my threshold. Both the 160’s and 280’s use larger horns than the 150’s.

I don't think you understand how horns work. Size has nothing to do with brightness. A bigger horn has a lower cutoff frequency (and therefore can be crossed over lower) and better pattern control at lower frequencies. My klipsch rb-10s have tiny horns in comparison to my rp-160m but sound much brighter in comparison.

The 150ms don't really sound all that different from the 160m. The major difference between them is the 160m has better measured pattern control at lower frequencies due to the larger woofer and bigger horn, neither speaker sounds fatiguing or bright to my young ears, on the contrary, in my opinion they are some of the best sounding speakers I've heard at any price point.

Your experience with the 280s sounding harsh is likely due to a highly reflective room. I know I personally can't stand to listen in a highly reverberant environment for long periods without listening fatigue, and it makes moderately loud volumes sound grating. I've also found well treated rooms make higher volumes more tolerable, since short dynamic bursts (such as in movies) tend to decay much more rapidly, whereas a very live room tends to make then ring on longer, making the overall constant level feel louder and therefore more irritating.

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

 

[shadyJ]

One thing I don't understand is how a lively room would make horn-loaded speaker specifically seem bright. A horn doesn't have that much to do with the overall spectral balance of a speaker. Horn loaded speakers can be warm as well as bright. An acoustically lively room will have a greater ratio of reflected/direct sound heard at the listening position in which case the design of the speaker doesn't matter so much as sound power curve. In fact, the nice thing about horn-loaded speakers are the toe-in can make a much bigger different than a speaker without a wave-guide, and so the horn-loaded speaker is easier to 'soften up' through simply adjusting the toe-in.