DVI... HDMI... .3. .2 .1......ugh

R

rolyasm

Full Audioholic
I have a DVI cable run through the wall from source to projector. Looking to get a new projector with HDMI 1.3 (lossless audio, deep color, etc,) and all the features it offers. Are there any solutions to get the one DVI cable to run both audio and video, including the HDMI 1.3? If I just use the DVI end at the projector, hook up a DVI-HDMI cable to my projector, what would I get? Would I get sound? I know it will do 1080P, but I might as well try to get all the benifits of the new projector and future items that HDMI might bring. Thanks for any suggestion.

Roly
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
I have a DVI cable run through the wall from source to projector. Looking to get a new projector with HDMI 1.3 (lossless audio, deep color, etc,) and all the features it offers. Are there any solutions to get the one DVI cable to run both audio and video, including the HDMI 1.3? If I just use the DVI end at the projector, hook up a DVI-HDMI cable to my projector, what would I get? Would I get sound? I know it will do 1080P, but I might as well try to get all the benifits of the new projector and future items that HDMI might bring. Thanks for any suggestion.

Roly
No you will have to run a new cable. Next time run ALL cables in conduit. Never run a cable that is not in conduit. With the pace of change you will run into these kinds of problems again and again.
 
H

Highbar

Senior Audioholic
My only question is do you want audio coming from the projector?
The DVI cable wont carry audio so you're going to have to run a new cable. Now if you only want video out of the projector I'm not sure how having a DVI to HDMI converter on each end would affect the image.
Good Luck.

T
 
R

rolyasm

Full Audioholic
um, no, your right, I am retarded. hehe. I don't need Audio to my projector. All this information gets my brain hurting. But I do want all of the video benefits of the HDMI. So TLSGuy, don't think there is any way possible. There aren't any converters or anything that will do the job?

Roly
 
Hi Ho

Hi Ho

Audioholic Samurai
If one uses a DVI to HDMI adapter on each end of a DVI cable will it not act just like an HDMI cable and carry audio and video?
 
Thaedium

Thaedium

Audioholic
Not in this configuration. His source for the video will be outputting to the reciever, and from the reciever to the projector. There is no audio handling required by the projector, as the source will be passing it on to the reciever and from there to the speakers.

Also note, DVI is not the most reliable cable for passing on HDMI, it was spec'd for 16 feet, though you can get repeaters for longer runs.

Anyways to answer Hi Ho's comments:

If one uses a DVI to HDMI adapter on each end of a DVI cable will it not act just like an HDMI cable and carry audio and video?
The short answer is no. It will process the video fine, but if you want audio into the stream still you are going to need a special adapter. For this adapter, your still going to need to output the audio digitally with a seperate cable into this adapter. What this adapter does is combine the audio signal and the DVI video signal into an HDMI signal. You wont get the benefits of HDMI 1.3 either.

Heres an example of that adapter;
http://www.govconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=7830277

Hope that helps
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
the benifits of the hdmi standards are only there if all of the equipment is uniform.

"If one uses a DVI to HDMI adapter on each end of a DVI cable will it not act just like an HDMI cable and carry audio and video?"

NO,
http://www.datapro.net/techinfo/dvi_info.html

DVI-D & HDMI
Frequently Asked Questions

We frequently get asked many questions about DVI and HDMI. The global home cinema community is still trying to come to terms with what DVI and HDMI are, how they compare, what they do, what they're compatible with etc. Here's some of the most popular questions, with simple answers which will hopefully solve your queries...

What's the difference between DVI-I and DVI-D?
How about DVI dual link vs single link?
Can I connect DVI-I to DVI-D?
I want to use component video or RGB output and convert to DVI-D. Can I do this?
What is DVI-D "HDCP"?
What is HDMI, and how does it compare to DVI?
Can I connect a DVI device to a HDMI device?
Can I connect my analogue video output to HDMI?
Are there any length restrictions with DVI and HDMI cables?

What's the difference between DVI-I and DVI-D?

It's important to first note that "DVI" (Digital Video Interface) refers to the connector, or interface, only. It's application can vary. There are three main types of DVI; DVI-I, DVI-D and a third one which is rarely mentioned, DVI-A. This latter one is DVI "Analogue", which is quite obviously analogue only. This is essentially VGA (RGB-HV) in a different plug. DVI-D is at the other end of the scale, being pure Digital video only. DVI-I combines the two, containing both analogue and digital cores.

DVI-I does NOT convert ananlogue to digital. Rather it just provides a convenient connection to offer analogue or digital in the one cable. DVI-I and DVI-D can be distinguished by the presence (DVI-I) or absence (DVI-D) of four extra pins - two above and two below the flat horizontal location pin, as follows;

How about DVI dual link vs single link?

A "Single Link" DVI connection contains three data channels for digitized RGB information (called "Transition Minimized Differential Signaling"), offering a bandwidth which can support up to 1920x1080 HD progressive resolution. "Dual Link" has a secondary parallel connection of the same digital RGB "T.M.D.S." data channels, increasing bandwidth to a supported resolution of 2048x1536 progressive.

Most AV devices output only single link, but acquiring a dual link cable often costs about the same. Dual link is fully backwards compatible with single link, but the use of a single link cable cannot support the larger bandwidth if the need arises. In other words, it's recommended to buy a dual link cable to begin with.

Single link and dual link are both applicable to either DVI-D or DVI-I, but relates only to digital information being carried; ie:- it has no bearing on the analogue part of DVI-I. Single link can be easily identified by it's lack of the center two rows of pins in the connector, whereas dual link has all pins present. The diagrams following show this more clearly (the pins in question have been colored RED on the dual link diagram for clarification);

Can I connect DVI-I to DVI-D?

Well... sometimes. Only the digital part of the signal will be relevant if they are connected, as the DVI-D connection cannot read the analogue signal which may be contained in the DVI-I. For example, if a DVI-I output of an AV device is outputting only an analogue signal, then you can't connect it to the digital-only DVI-D input of your display device, even though the plug may physically fit (although many DVI-D sockets don't have the provision for the extra pins of DVI-I, hence connection may not even be possible). You'll need to check that the DVI-I output is capable of passing DVI-D before attempting the connection. If your output device has only Analogue DVI-I, then try connecting it to the VGA input of your display device by using an appropriate adapter (Cinema Cables cannot provide such adapters).

I want to use component video or RGB output and convert to DVI-D. Can I do this?

No - there's really no point. Component video and RGB are both analogue signals (as are Composite and S-Video). To input these signals into a DVI-D connector would require an analogue to digital (A/D) conversion. Any display device which contains a DVI-D input already uses a digital circuit which contains an A/D converter for all analogue inputs. Using an external A/D converter would be unlikely to acheive any better result than that which is already built in to the display device.

The benefit of DVI-D is the lack of A/D or D/A conversion required at any stage. The pure digital signal output from a DVD player, digital TV tuner and the like would be sent to the digital display device (eg plasma, LCD, projector etc) totally intact. This yields the best possible result.

What is DVI-D "HDCP"?

"HDCP" was developed to protect the intellectual property of software/movie studios and distributors. It stands for "High Definition Content Protection", and is a digital code buried within the bitstream which is output from the digital source. This prevents unauthorised copying of protected materials, much like Macrovision did for analogue recordings. Only since the introduction of this standard have hardware manufacturers been allowed to offer DVI-D or HDMI outputs on their DVD players, High Definition TV tuners etc. Any device which bears the label "HDCP" simply means that it is complaint with the requirements. It does not change the output signal in terms of quality, it only refers to the additional code which it contains.

DVI-D was originally used exclusively in the IT realm, but the introduction of HDCP saw it evolve into the AV industry. HDMI was then introduced after the HDCP standard was released, hence all HDMI products are now HDCP compliant (and don't necessarily say so).

What is HDMI, and how does it compare to DVI?

HDMI stands for "High Definition Multimedia Interface". It is the latest standard which integrates the same digital video bitstream as DVI-D (Single Link) with up to eight channels of high-res digital audio. What's more, it is a two-way communicating bus, allowing a source and display device to "talk" to each other. For example, a display device (eg Plasma screen) can tell your source devcie (eg DVD) what format it wants to run in, and the DVD can output the appropriate signal. This is of course reliant on the manufacturers making their firmware compatible with this capability. It's essentially the modern-day SCART cable, containing both picture and sound.

The picture quality of DVI-D and HDMI will be identical, assuming the same standard of cable is being compared, as the video signal/bitstream is the same. HDMI differs in that it also contains audio, has communications ability, and takes up less real estate on a device's connections panel.

Can I connect a DVI device to a HDMI device?

You can connect DVI to HDMI, providing the DVI is the Digital variety - ie: DVI-D. The signal is 100% compatible with no loss of quality. You can use either DVI-HDMI adapters, or a cable which is terminated with DVI-D at one end and HDMI at the other. Of course the extra features of HDMI will be forfeited (digital audio and communications bus), but otherwise it's fine.

You cannot connect DVI-I to HDMI, as HDMI is digital only. You'll find that most HDMI-DVI adapters do not have the facility for the additional four pins of DVI-I, hence a physical fit is not possible. Use only DVI-D cables with a HDMI adapter, or vice versa.

Can I connect my analogue video output to HDMI?

No. HDMI is digital only - no exceptions.



DVI cables do not require the same attention in core gauges, but we're comfortable at a 28AWG limit of 20m (65ft)
 
Thaedium

Thaedium

Audioholic
I also made a mistake in my last post, it will pass a 1280x1024 signal fine up to 16 meters not feet. So 50 feet roughly. And only good to pass a 1920x1200 to 15 feet. FWIW.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Bandphan has told you all you really need to know. That is a truly excellent and comprehensive post on DVI to HDMI issues. That one definitely needs marking for reference, especially the different DVI standards.

Now as you don't need audio DVI to HDMI might work. However as Bandphan points out the communications bus will not be connected. A new projector will likely want to certify the HDCP codes. If it does not get the handshake of the six digital HDCP keys you won't get a picture.

So try it and see if it works, if not you will need a new cable.
 
R

rolyasm

Full Audioholic
Thanks for the post. Not to confuse things, but let me just ask and reiterate a few things.
DVI will pass all current HDMI as long as it is the digital cable. This means it will do Deep Color and all the rest. Cool.
An adaptor will fix my problem.
Also cool.

So, if someone were doing a prerun, would it be wise to run a generic, blank ended DVI, since DVI seems to do about anything? Will the older HDMI cables run new HDMI? Thanks all.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks for the post. Not to confuse things, but let me just ask and reiterate a few things.
DVI will pass all current HDMI as long as it is the digital cable. This means it will do Deep Color and all the rest. Cool.
An adaptor will fix my problem.
Also cool.

So, if someone were doing a prerun, would it be wise to run a generic, blank ended DVI, since DVI seems to do about anything? Will the older HDMI cables run new HDMI? Thanks all.
The cable will be fine for passing the digital picture signal. The issue is lack of the communication link. If the new TV demands The HDCP digital keys it won't get them, and you won't have a picture. The DVI connector does not connect the communication link. You will have to see what happens. This whole HDCP issue is a mess.
 
R

rolyasm

Full Audioholic
I posted this awhile back, but am just getting back to the wiring. So I have a huge cable (about 2.5 times the size of my coax). It has a thick jacket with 5 wires, about 18 g, running through it. The wires are colored red, green, blue, black, white. The wiring guy said it was for DVI, but that was about 2 years ago. So assuming this is a DVI, can I hook up either DVI-D or DVI-I to this? I also have 3 coax for the component. I want to try and get all the benefits of HDMI 1.3 (deep color/black) out of my connection. Suggestions and thought are welcome.
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
Is it an option to run cat5 and use baluns? As for codecs the Audio is handeled by the avr. Utp cable is cheap and easy to run.
 
C

clwood

Audiophyte
Another stupid question for an expert to answer

the benifits of the hdmi standards are only there if all of the equipment is uniform.

"If one uses a DVI to HDMI adapter on each end of a DVI cable will it not act just like an HDMI cable and carry audio and video?"

NO,

DVI-D & HDMI
Frequently Asked Questions

We frequently get asked many questions about DVI and HDMI. The global home cinema community is still trying to come to terms with what DVI and HDMI are, how they compare, what they do, what they're compatible with etc. Here's some of the most popular questions, with simple answers which will hopefully solve your queries...

What's the difference between DVI-I and DVI-D?
How about DVI dual link vs single link?
Can I connect DVI-I to DVI-D?
I want to use component video or RGB output and convert to DVI-D. Can I do this?
What is DVI-D "HDCP"?
What is HDMI, and how does it compare to DVI?
Can I connect a DVI device to a HDMI device?
Can I connect my analogue video output to HDMI?
Are there any length restrictions with DVI and HDMI cables?

What's the difference between DVI-I and DVI-D?

It's important to first note that "DVI" (Digital Video Interface) refers to the connector, or interface, only. It's application can vary. There are three main types of DVI; DVI-I, DVI-D and a third one which is rarely mentioned, DVI-A. This latter one is DVI "Analogue", which is quite obviously analogue only. This is essentially VGA (RGB-HV) in a different plug. DVI-D is at the other end of the scale, being pure Digital video only. DVI-I combines the two, containing both analogue and digital cores.

DVI-I does NOT convert ananlogue to digital. Rather it just provides a convenient connection to offer analogue or digital in the one cable. DVI-I and DVI-D can be distinguished by the presence (DVI-I) or absence (DVI-D) of four extra pins - two above and two below the flat horizontal location pin, as follows;

How about DVI dual link vs single link?

A "Single Link" DVI connection contains three data channels for digitized RGB information (called "Transition Minimized Differential Signaling"), offering a bandwidth which can support up to 1920x1080 HD progressive resolution. "Dual Link" has a secondary parallel connection of the same digital RGB "T.M.D.S." data channels, increasing bandwidth to a supported resolution of 2048x1536 progressive.

Most AV devices output only single link, but acquiring a dual link cable often costs about the same. Dual link is fully backwards compatible with single link, but the use of a single link cable cannot support the larger bandwidth if the need arises. In other words, it's recommended to buy a dual link cable to begin with.

Single link and dual link are both applicable to either DVI-D or DVI-I, but relates only to digital information being carried; ie:- it has no bearing on the analogue part of DVI-I. Single link can be easily identified by it's lack of the center two rows of pins in the connector, whereas dual link has all pins present. The diagrams following show this more clearly (the pins in question have been colored RED on the dual link diagram for clarification);

Can I connect DVI-I to DVI-D?

Well... sometimes. Only the digital part of the signal will be relevant if they are connected, as the DVI-D connection cannot read the analogue signal which may be contained in the DVI-I. For example, if a DVI-I output of an AV device is outputting only an analogue signal, then you can't connect it to the digital-only DVI-D input of your display device, even though the plug may physically fit (although many DVI-D sockets don't have the provision for the extra pins of DVI-I, hence connection may not even be possible). You'll need to check that the DVI-I output is capable of passing DVI-D before attempting the connection. If your output device has only Analogue DVI-I, then try connecting it to the VGA input of your display device by using an appropriate adapter (Cinema Cables cannot provide such adapters).

I want to use component video or RGB output and convert to DVI-D. Can I do this?

No - there's really no point. Component video and RGB are both analogue signals (as are Composite and S-Video). To input these signals into a DVI-D connector would require an analogue to digital (A/D) conversion. Any display device which contains a DVI-D input already uses a digital circuit which contains an A/D converter for all analogue inputs. Using an external A/D converter would be unlikely to acheive any better result than that which is already built in to the display device.

The benefit of DVI-D is the lack of A/D or D/A conversion required at any stage. The pure digital signal output from a DVD player, digital TV tuner and the like would be sent to the digital display device (eg plasma, LCD, projector etc) totally intact. This yields the best possible result.

What is DVI-D "HDCP"?

"HDCP" was developed to protect the intellectual property of software/movie studios and distributors. It stands for "High Definition Content Protection", and is a digital code buried within the bitstream which is output from the digital source. This prevents unauthorised copying of protected materials, much like Macrovision did for analogue recordings. Only since the introduction of this standard have hardware manufacturers been allowed to offer DVI-D or HDMI outputs on their DVD players, High Definition TV tuners etc. Any device which bears the label "HDCP" simply means that it is complaint with the requirements. It does not change the output signal in terms of quality, it only refers to the additional code which it contains.

DVI-D was originally used exclusively in the IT realm, but the introduction of HDCP saw it evolve into the AV industry. HDMI was then introduced after the HDCP standard was released, hence all HDMI products are now HDCP compliant (and don't necessarily say so).

What is HDMI, and how does it compare to DVI?

HDMI stands for "High Definition Multimedia Interface". It is the latest standard which integrates the same digital video bitstream as DVI-D (Single Link) with up to eight channels of high-res digital audio. What's more, it is a two-way communicating bus, allowing a source and display device to "talk" to each other. For example, a display device (eg Plasma screen) can tell your source devcie (eg DVD) what format it wants to run in, and the DVD can output the appropriate signal. This is of course reliant on the manufacturers making their firmware compatible with this capability. It's essentially the modern-day SCART cable, containing both picture and sound.

The picture quality of DVI-D and HDMI will be identical, assuming the same standard of cable is being compared, as the video signal/bitstream is the same. HDMI differs in that it also contains audio, has communications ability, and takes up less real estate on a device's connections panel.

Can I connect a DVI device to a HDMI device?

You can connect DVI to HDMI, providing the DVI is the Digital variety - ie: DVI-D. The signal is 100% compatible with no loss of quality. You can use either DVI-HDMI adapters, or a cable which is terminated with DVI-D at one end and HDMI at the other. Of course the extra features of HDMI will be forfeited (digital audio and communications bus), but otherwise it's fine.

You cannot connect DVI-I to HDMI, as HDMI is digital only. You'll find that most HDMI-DVI adapters do not have the facility for the additional four pins of DVI-I, hence a physical fit is not possible. Use only DVI-D cables with a HDMI adapter, or vice versa.

Can I connect my analogue video output to HDMI?

No. HDMI is digital only - no exceptions.



DVI cables do not require the same attention in core gauges, but we're comfortable at a 28AWG limit of 20m (65ft)
** Sorry, I'm so new to this I couldn't set up the quote the way it should be.... please try to answer this, though...

Just found this post of yours and althgugh much of it is Greek to me, I do have a question you can probably help me with. You assisted me the other day w/subwoofers and thanks to you, SVS is a bit richer today

We have an older HDTV (Hitachi 51SWX20B) that has a DVI connection we are not using at this time. We are connecting to the cable box using the 3 coaxial cables, but both the TV and the cable box have the DVI. SHould we use the DVI connection and would it improve anything? Also, do you know what kind of cable I will need to connect the sub (got the PC12-NSD) to the receiver (Sony STR-DS820)? Thanks. I'm sure I'll have other questions, but this forum is sure a huge help!!
cl
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
If your tv's component inputs accepts HD signals, there isnt really any need to switch them.

As for sub cables Monoprice would be one..
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
If your tv's component inputs accepts HD signals, there isnt really any need to switch them.

As for sub cables Monoprice would be one..
I will second the Monoprice recommendation for sub cable...
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023603&p_id=2682&seq=1&format=2

Likewise, while you can connect your HD cable box using component cables or digital cables (DVI), you are still sending the same resolution video (1080i/720p/etc.) You MAY see a slight quality improvement by switching to DVI, so it wouldn't be a downgrade in video quality to hook up the digital video.

I say likely because SOME TVs handle digital video worse than analog video. But, in my experience it's less than 5% or so of all people. 95% see the same qualtiy, or better when they switch to digital.

Where to get that DVI cable?

Same place you grab that subwoofer cable from...
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10209&cs_id=1020902&p_id=2759&seq=1&format=2
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top