DSP modes for movies

Yamahaluver · Jun 19, 2003

How many of you use DSP over the plain vanila DTS or Pro Logic mode on your HT receivers?

I find Yamaha's Quad field DSP modes like Adventure, Spectacle and General to be much more superior and enveloping than the plain non enhanced modes.

Audioholics · Jun 19, 2003

I use 70mm General for almost all movies as it opens up the soundstage and engages my Wharfedale effects speakers...

All you have to do is A/B the system during a big scene and the difference is "great" verses "theatrical-great".

If it weren't for the effects speakers, I probably wouldn't use the DSP as much, though I did engage it periodically prior to having the effects channels.

I don't use any effects on music unless I'm having a party and want all my speakers firing (8-ch stereo mode works well for this)...

Yamahaluver · Jun 19, 2003

In my experience, movies like Fast and the Furios greatly benefitted from the 'Adventure' mode while movies like The Gladiator equaly came alive with the 'Spectacle' mode.

For music, DSP is good for crappily recorded, constricted CDs where it has the tendency of opening up the soundstage quite a lot and add some sheen to dull recordings.

For background listening at parties, I too prefer the 8 channel stereo mode, keeps the presence of the music all over without overpowering conversations.

Khellandros66 · Jun 20, 2003

Yamahaluver~

I use DSP modes on my Yamaha RX-V1300 too.  I use Adventure for Harry Potter: The Chamber Of Secrets, Jurrasic Park 1,2,3. Spectecale for Predator, Signs, Se7en, Twister, True Lies, Haunting, and my two reference movies; Saving Private Ryan (DTS) and Lord Of The Rings FOTR Extended Cut. I use Rock Concert for any DTS 4.1 CDs that I make, more info on 4.1 CDs email me.

the DSP modes shouldn't even be called DSP modes, maybe instead they should be called "THERE".

~Bob

Yamahaluver · Jun 20, 2003

Khellandros66 : the DSP modes shouldn't even be called DSP modes, maybe instead they should be called "THERE".

~Bob

khellandros66,

I aboslutely agree, the Adventure and Spectacle alongwith the General modes are indispnesible. One of the reasons a true die hard stereo only man got swayed and bought myself a HT amp. Earlier I used to use my Yamaha pre/power for movies but the DSP-AZ1 showed me a new much improved dimension for HT.

BTW: Checked and auditioned the MSP-10 speakers thanks to you. They are fantastic, around 85% of the legendary NS-1000M.

Guest · Jul 1, 2003

Do you guys (Yamaha dudes) use di-poles or mono-poles for your surrounds?

I'm still very interested in the whole DSP thing.  The speaker kit I want to build uses mono-poles so I'm wondering how well they will perform.

Where is good place to shop for Yamaha gear online (AKA 15 points or less)?  You can find guys moving Pioneer and Denon fairly easy, but Yamaha is another story.

Rob

Audioholics · Jul 1, 2003

Quad poles - Axiom Audio QS8's for me...

Guest · Jul 1, 2003

Do you have them placed in the ceiling corners as per Yamahas speaker placement diagram?

Audioholics · Jul 1, 2003

Per my room design and Axiom recommendations, they are on the rear walls, placed about 7 feet off the floor.

Yamahaluver · Jul 1, 2003

I use direct radiating Yamaha NS-90 placed 7 feet behind.

Guest · Jul 3, 2003

so, anyone do a A/B compare of Yamaha DSP's to say HK's logic 7?

Yamahaluver · Jul 3, 2003

hawke : Per my room design and Axiom recommendations, they are on the rear walls, placed about 7 feet off the floor.

Hi hawke,

How far behind are your rears from your prefered listening position?

Audioholics · Jul 4, 2003

About 6-7 feet

Yamahaluver · Jul 4, 2003

hawke : About 6-7 feet

Many thanks, thats exactly how I have mine setup.

Guest · Jul 4, 2003

<table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">so, anyone do a A/B compare of Yamaha DSP's to say HK's logic 7? </td></tr></table>
Since Lexicon equipment is used in most of the professional movie soundstages to master DVD movies, I would expect Lexicon's Logic 7 on either the HK or Lexicon products (both part of Harmon International who also owns Madrigal, Mark Levinson and Revel) to be a superior surround technology to Yamaha's offerings.  At least it is to my ears.

What each person likes in their own Home environment is another matter altogether though, as we all have our preferences.

Audioholics · Jul 4, 2003

I would say Lexicon has a tremendous amount of experience in this area. I'd like to know which chips show up in their studio gear and how the quality difference measure up between pro and consumer lines.

Yamaha's attraction, to me, is their ability to provide DSP "for the rest of us." Without crapping up the signal too much, they offer me something that truly opens up the soundstage - in a way that a standard 5.1 or 6.1 configuration (in the same price range) cannot do. The extra front effects speakers make my 32" Toshiba viewings feel like a theatrical event. This will be especially advantageous when I setup my LCD screen this month.

Guest · Jul 4, 2003

From both a technical and cost of manufacturing point of view, I find the major players will do a superior job with silicon DSP chips (Motorola, Cirrus, SHARC) because they will have higher production runs, faster turns, faster ramps of the latest techology in manufacturing equipment and 1st dibs on FAB manufacturing schedules over Yamaha. Just something I ran into myself when dealing with the FABs in ASIA for newly developed chips.

Of course the sound signature also depends on the software alogorithms used by these various DSP chips. Here both Lexicon and Meridian have the most experience, as they completely write their own code from scratch, I assume Yamaha licenses the core code from Dolby and DTS.

I think Yamaha's stubborness to only provide a fixed 90Hz crossover shows they aren't willing to do much in modifications to the core software algorithms. All Yamaha's DSP modes are simple adjustable parameters in the core code(time delay/phase), even the front effects channels.

Guest · Jul 4, 2003

Well I heard a RX-Z1 setup today with DTS Spectacle with a little 5th element action tweaked out the way it should be.

WOW on some of the car fly-bys or pans I guess,  it was also really cool that _at some points_ I could of sworn the center channel was right in the middle of the projected image. (instead of the actual placement well below it)

On the downside however I found it to be too bright and well "messy" in a lot of ways.  It seemed like just "too much" on the high frequency data.  I guess it seems cool at first but after a bit of time.....

On Bruces suggestion (thanks Bruce) I think I'm going to grab a used MC-1,  I heard one of these puppies at the same shop and I think I prefer the Lexicon sound over the Yamaha.  Worst comes to worst I'll grab a refurb Pioneer tx49.

Rob

Yamahaluver · Jul 4, 2003

Yamaha's DSP codes are in-house effort and it is the accumulation of their various studies across the halls and theaters around the world. Their technique to get the data with the unique, patented Quad Array mic is a feat in itself. Their DSP chips are built on state of the art facility near Mt. Fujiyama and their chip factory is among the most sophisticated. The DSP chips are originaly developed for their musical instruments and then modified to accomodate HT products.

When it comes to musical experience, they have 100 years of data that no other audio company can claim to have.

I do agree that they should incorporate a variable sub crossover in future, but that is only a small facet. Yamaha also provides monitor speakers and DSP equipment to major Grammy winning studios and to me I find Yamaha's sound way superior to others. Yamaha till today is a higly respected name among recording artists and musicians in general and that we know is an accolade hard to get. Their musical instruments grace some of the best halls and phillarmonias across the world including the most analytical of all places, Germany, which gave the world modern western classical music among others.

http://www.digitalprosound.com/2001/01_jan/reviews/yamaha-msp.htm

Tony Sheppard's review at

http://www.giles.com/yamaha1/pressreleases/ProAudio/shepperd.htm

http://www.yamaha-music.co.uk/play/digital_mixing/index.asp

Guest · Jul 5, 2003

Yamaha owns and runs their own silicon fabrication plant (very high potential for pollution) in Japan near Mt. Fujiyama?

It is quite expensive to do it that way (especially inside Japan proper), unlike most other chip designers/producers who use TSMC to manufacture their chips (the largest silicon FAB in the world) with enormous economies of scale over Yamaha.

Yamaluver,

Respectfully, nothing you provided as links has anything to say about Yamaha's expertise in the software algorithm design of 5.1-7.1 surround sound technologies for DSP chips (like Dolby, DTS, Lexicon's Logic 7, Meridian's Trifield, Meridian's MLP, etc.), which is what this thread is about, not speakers and mixing consoles.

DSP modes for movies

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